Safe-standing at White Hart Lane

[Admin]

Really, Tucker?

"We intend to present the staff at the club with the results from this survey once we've achieved a reasonable level of response."

:avblol:

 

[brighty]

Done.

I think it would be a great idea if you collate the results of this survey and pass them along to the club at some point.

 

[Blanchflower]

Let me be the first to say ............. will you guys.........

of fuck it, I'll just do the bloody survey

 

[Stanners]

Just about shat myself when I seen the IMPORTANT thread name.

 

[Flav]

Lads

Once again, we were warned if standing, this was going to happen. Stewards are not cunts for enforcing a rule that is given to them to enforce.

Ben's case is a different issue, but publicly slagging off the club and its staff isn't going to help change anything, whether it be standing at the Lane or the introduction of 1882.

Officials from Tottenham read this board so use your noddle.

 

[Flav]

My response to that was due to what happened to Ben. You should not be thrown out of the stadium for celebrating a goal just by standing up, warning before or not. The stewards can enforce the no persistent standing as per the clubs instructions (and law) but this is utterly ridiculous. Respect is a two way thing, if us fans respect the wishes of the stewards and club by sitting down, I don't expect to be kicked out of the stadium for jumping up and celebrating a goal, seeing as goals are what we go to football to see and enjoy.

I don't disagree with you. I've spoken to Ben I know what happened there wasn't a simple case of flouting the rules.

My point is that the philosophy of 'they're cunts' means we're going to get nowhere fast, regardless of context. The FSF are excellent in dealing with complaints from fans.

I'm not telling anyone what they can and can't say, just thinking that we're asking the club to be more open to making what we deem to be positive changes for the match day experience, and this sort of thing is counter productive.

 

[Éperons]

Smart of West Ham. Safe standing will probably increase the capacity, which they'll need once the OS is selling out every match.

 

[YidoBuckler]

Date for publsihing has been pushed back to the 1st March. Problems with the postal service

Should have put some more stamps on it.

 

[alexwooty]

BBC Sport - Safe standing: Lib Dems make 2015 General Election pledge
Safe standing: Lib Dems make 2015 General Election pledge

Great, we'll definitely get safe standing now...

 

[Boltonspur]

I don't know enough about Hillsborough to pass judgment, but wasn't part of the problem the fact that unmanned gates were targeted by fans without tickets, causing a huge overcrowding & in consequence the trampling & crushing of fans who had tickets & were legitimately in the stadium? I stand to be corrected on this, but surely in the modern age, security on the gates will make sure that people without tickets can't get in whether they are standing or seated...they didn't make Donington all seater when a fan got crushed to death after a huge surge forwards for Guns n Roses. Where there are large crowds there is always going to be a risk element. I went to the eminem gig at wembley recently. We were all getting crushed...in the bottleneck back to the tube station after the gig! A few people passed out I understand-even on the packed out trains- but nobody died. A well organised, ticket only standing area allows people to enjoy the event, whatever it is, in the way they can maximise their own experience.

 

[Nick "Trevor" Sharp]

That's exactly the point Mick. Have an area which is clearly identified as standing room only. Appeases those who want to stand and those who don't at the same time. Everybody wins.

Which makes it even more bonkers that we can't have it.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Bless them! They obviously knew as much about the opposition then. No rational person would vote for that shower.
The sad status of British politics, the choice of voting for the party you consider to be the least shit.
Have we heard any pearls of wisdom from the opposition on the status of safe standing?
He's probably waiting for Putin to tell him what to say

I'm not interested in getting into a political debate with you, it's just a fact that- whether you think they're misguided or not- the young tend not to vote tory, and even less of them offer them any more meaningful support i.e. join the party.

 

[Joaquin]

For what it's worth, apparently the Lib Dems' manifesto promises to bring in safe standing.

Obviously they're never gonna get close to power again, but at least it does have some backers.

The Lib Dems said they'd oppose increasing university fees to win votes and then went back on it, so they might as well promise a dog for every house that shits gold for what their manifesto is worth

 

[White Van Jan]

The petition is to get the subject debated in Parliament. I have a very poor opinion of Politicians and can just see MP 's coming up with all sorts of restrictions and making the simple being anything but simple.
I spent many years standing on the shelf and was unhappy when standing was banned but if it returns it will be so restricted and not the same as it was.

nothing will ever be like standing on the Old Shelf, but safe standing will still be a whole lot better than what we've got now.

Once it gets debated, then each one of us can try to bring it up with our MP in their Sat surgery. Even Tory MPs might not oppose it. I'll try and see Mr. Tom Tugendhat, please try to see your one.

 

[ArmadilloSackRace]

It’s all relevant as my view have been formed on experience, those experiences have made me cynical to the concept. That’s not to say that I am right, I might well be wrong. I said, fairly clearly that if there are benefits.....

I’m not closed minded on the subject, to bring a bit more concept I stand 99.9% of the time as it is, so perhaps that sways. I have to state, clearly that I am likely to have a much more positive view on standing if I were subjected to that sit down mantra every week, that I am not probably leans me towards the status quo. But then I do need to understand those that have ( are forced ) to sit.

Ok, so you currently stand up, with nothing but a plastic seat, at around your knee level, and a slight gradient separating you from the person in front of you, yeah? Does that feel safe?

Now take that experience, but add your very own rail at the correct height for you to comfortably lean on, whilst also preventing the possibility of you falling forwards during wild celebrations. Those people standing behind you can no longer fall in to you, as they also have their own rail preventing them from doing so.

Does that sound like an improvement?

 

[BangkokSpud]

I But, at those bigger matches the turnstile staff would only stop letting people in when they realized it was time to clock off, £10 got you in no matter what the capacity might or might not have been, there was no regard for the safety of the fans.

You would need the good luck of a lottery winner to be standing in the same spot for 90 minutes, or at a barrier point or the end of Aisle, Christ if you got the end of the Aisle for a while game..... It was the law of the jungle back then, faced on a regular basis with bigger, meaner or more pissed than you people, move over you did!

I feel that any reversion to standing would need to find a way ensure that stewards could keep areas from being overloaded, then it has a potential to be controlled and then be “safe” but how can it be done if it’s not managed and what club will really want £8.75 an hour staff managing the issue?

The reason you're being shot down is that your 'opinion' is not an opinion but a series of falsehoods....

Safe standing requires the same entry procedures as seating so no £10 won't get you in

You have an assigned 'seat' where you have to go, just as you do now, so standing in the same spot for 90 minutes is exactly what you will do ....

and your last point ensure that stewards could keep areas from being overloaded how do you think they do it now? or do you always sit in the director's box for your £10 ...

Your comments are unfounded with no basis in fact, that's why you're getting ripped a new one, nothing to do with 'opinions' when it's all nonsense .....

 

[LeeMcl]

The reason you're getting panned for this post is because a lot of us feel like we've been here over and again - the same old objections about safe standing come out and every one of them is fruitless. The comments you make are the comments that everyone makes when they haven't actually looked into what safe standing really means. And it's those comments that are holding back the proper discussion over whether or not we should be bringing it in - people asserting a somewhat ignorant viewpoint rather than actually looking at the proposal.

Let me address your points though, as there will be others reading who also are unaware of what we're actually campaigning for.

Turnstile admissions allowing too many in. Every match now is all-ticket and the automated barriers & search staff can effectively prevent those without a ticket from attending.

Standing in the same spot/being barged out of the way. This will not be different from seating, as one critical difference between terraces & safe standing is that you do have an allocated seat - it's just that it's locked upright, for you to stand in front of. In this regard it is in fact identical to the current situation whereby people stand in front of their regular seat. There is no new risk of you being pushed away from your "seat" because everyone in the area will have their own.

The average football fan's behviour. If you honestly believe that the demographic of the average fan at Tottenham hasn't changed beyond recognition over the last 30 years then I'll struggle to reason with you. Of course, there are still a decent number of loutish types who'll be tanked up before the game and cause problems - but they're a minority now and, possibly more importantly, what's considered acceptable has move on greatly. The general intention from stewards is to err towards caution; if someone was to attempt to piss anywhere other than the toilets they'd be kicked out without question. An you know what? Those "louts" will likely all be in the standing area, not the seating areas you'll be in.

In fact, I think it can all be summed up by these two points:

1. Safe standing is NOT open terraces - every person has an allocated space in front of a seat. Every single row has a rail the full length aisle to aisle.

2. Standing in rail-seat areas is much safer than the current situation of standing in seated areas.

3. Allocated standing areas will greatly reduce instances of standing in seated areas.

4. If you don't want to stand or have someone stand in front of you, don't go in the standing area...

Thanks for the helpful information, I appreciate the time taken to reply.

As per my original post I felt I was “CYNICAL” about the concept, I somewhat still am, but this reply does help to highlight the concept in clearer terms.

I read earlier about the use of safe standing in NFL ( party stands I think they said ) they make it work, So the principle must be sound.

It also seems very likely that in the end the idea will be adopted, so it will be a case of seeing how it works out once in use. Every reason why it will be a positive addition to stadiums.

As said above the rails, stopping the surges is for me vital, so on that basis I can better see the concept working, especially considering how easy it is to get involved in falling forward!

Side question - Looking at the concept how would the Seat actually be deployed? Would some fans not be looking straight ahead into the bars in the event of being at a seated event or do the bars go in and out ?

The more I have looked at the issue today, then I have to concede there seems to be no significant negativity to the idea. Which is hugely surprising. But equally positive, it is not a return to the past but a logical response to some of the current issues. Fuck it at this rate I will end up converted to the whole idea, bastards!

 

[Raiders]

Another step forward .... if this gets all party support it could happen very fast .... would take an EPL club with 10% of it's seating capacity already designed to accommodate rail-seats to trial it ... now who could that be?

Labour to offer its backing for safe standing at English football stadiums

Lib Dems already support it but they are meaningless nowadays. The Conservative party might just now have to support it. It is a win-win for anyone. Not often is a policy so widely popular.

 

[1882]

OK... there's no way around this... other than saying that in CERTAIN sections of certain grounds... FANS WILL STAND!

whether it's legal or not.... it's happening up and down the Country... it's NOTHING to do with being disrespectful to Hillsborough...

it's to do with GENERATIONS of football fans standing at football matches... ' cos when push comes to shove, watching football is an emotional, nervous, gut-wrenching experience for those who REALLY CARE about the outcome...
(And don't leave 10 minutes before the end, regardless of the score!!!)

But, like it or not... to fully appreciate how best to experience the full majesty of it... standing up and pacing from foot to foot for 90 minutes usually helps... whether you're AT the game, or watching at home on a 2 minute delayed dodgy stream from China!

Eating a 3 course buffet and washing it down with champagne and a cheese board doesn't even TOUCH on the true match day experience for most of us...

AND THAT'S why we stand!

 

[94Spurs94]

Sorry, but are they honestly suggesting that seats are the root cause of more black and minority people attending football games

Once they're stuck trying to defend the indefensible, they'll make up any old shit to justify it.