Safe-standing at White Hart Lane

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More importantly what the fuck does the public's desire to stand have to do with anything? The only question for authorities would be is it safe or not. Or, more specifically, would it be safer than what we presently have.

It's then up to the clubs, as private enterprises, to make the decision around demand. On a case by case basis too. Maybe 10% of Spurs fans want to stand but only 1% of Woolwich. Calling it 5% is a pointless average; making it legal doesn't mean anyone who doesn't want it has to take it.
 
LeeMcl said:
I simply do not understand how you go from reading an alternative point of view to attacks

As I said “I remain completely against the “safe standing” concept as I do not believe it would be safe, but if there is a way, let’s all hear it.

I also said quite clearly I felt “Cynical” in my point of view. That is because I understand that the large majority favour the concept. I did not and do not think I am right / others are wrong. I am not convinced on the concept for the reasons I stated. A differing opinion. That’s all.
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Please understand that it's not the offering of a different opinion that is the issue. The issue is that you offer an ill informed completely uninformed opinion, based on nothing other than how things used to be. We're talking about a practical modern saloon car, and you're talking about a horse and cart. Totally different principals.
 
ArmadilloSackRace said:
Ok, so you currently stand up, with nothing but a plastic seat, at around your knee level, and a slight gradient separating you from the person in front of you, yeah? Does that feel safe?

Now take that experience, but add your very own rail at the correct height for you to comfortably lean on, whilst also preventing the possibility of you falling forwards during wild celebrations. Those people standing behind you can no longer fall in to you, as they also have their own rail preventing them from doing so.

Does that sound like an improvement?
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That’s a valid point. I could not, with that example, argue against the rails. That is something about safe standing that would be a clear benefit as protection against surge is key to reduction of risk.

Considering the club have installed and ear marked areas of the new south Stand for Safe Standing in the future, it’s likely to happen and so when it does if it works it would be a positive and then my cynical mind will be put to rest.

I regret if my original post seemed a bit too closed to debate, was not my intention at all
 
Nailed it

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I8AVB said:
If you are old enough to vote, I would guess you either vote Green or Liberal, and if you ever reader a paper I would guess it is the guardian. My guess is that you think multiculturalism is brilliant, you get high on diversity, and believe the rich and successful should be made to pay. Regrettably the product of your era, but don't worry, when you grow up you will know better !
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Amazing you got there just by me asking you questions about your views on murdering transexuals.
 
I8AVB said:
Seriously, you honestly believe that most people who attend football matches are liberals. In all the years I have attended football matches I have met two, and they used to sit in front of me in the old park lane. Don't get me wrong, I believe that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, unlike the left who just can't comprehend that someone else may think differently to themselves.

Going back to the point in question. It's got to the point that just about every club wants it, 99% of supporters want it, but the government are too stupid to understand what safe standing actually is. I exclude Liverpool Football club from this, because they are pretty stupid as well
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That's interesting. I referred to the people I encounter at Spurs matches as 'normal' and you tranposed that into the word 'liberal', which suggests to me that you equate 'normality' with 'liberal'. So what does that make you? Abnormal?
 
BangkokSpud said:
Further to that report there have been long conversations about conducting a trial starting next seasons at NWHL, however there is talk of using a "Northern" club for image reasons, the Tories want to be seen doing stuff outside of London, several big Northern clubs have been asked to come up with proposals, even though none will have a purpose built stand like ours ... not sure how that will play out ... but no question safe standing is coming .... just where and when.
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How about Northern London? :sonhmm:
 
Flav said:
Given that standing areas would increase capacity and with it more money, this doesn't really make sense.

Also if levy said we need to charge £100 a ticket so we can buy more players would you be happy to do so? There's more important things in football than buying players ffs.
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I've had it with your pious bullshit Flav. We need expensive players or else we'll get relegated and then go into administration.
 
Some of the comments I've seen on this whole standing debate are insane. People are either incredibly stupid or just haven't bothered to read what safe standing is about.

Just read the article on the BBC, scrolled down to the comments and this was the first one...

The only problem i have with this will be when you book a seated ticket but get put in with everyone else standing up - so you're forced to do so yourself.
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:gylfi:

Oh yea, like when you book a seat to see Spurs play but they give you a ticket for Inverness Caledonian Thistle.
 
Hillsborough happened for a number of reasons. Some of them being:
1. Thanks to the Sheff Wednesday owner's extreme negligence, The ground did not have the required safety certificates. They were years out of date
2. For some reason the FA still allowed a showcase game to be played there
3. Appalling crowd management on the day inside and outside the ground by the police and stadium officials
4. unruly football fans who didn't have tickets trying to get into one end
5. Terracing and fencing that provides an environment where the above 4 points can cause the most damage possible.

It was a perfect storm of negligence and stupidity.

It would take an act of extreme human negligence for this to happen in this day and age. Ticket sales are far more regulated than in the 80s. They are also prohibitively expensive for any games that would see a crowd of that magnitude descend on a game. I.e. You wouldn't get thousands of people rocking up forcing their way in. Security is tighter, policing methods have generally improved, we have CCTV at every ground. I just can't see how another Hillsborough incident would be possible, safe standing or otherwise.
Now addressing the spectators who actually have tickets and are in the ground, for me the rail seats look like a safe way to watch a match standing up without the danger of crowd surges. Some of the designs even have foldaway seating options.

The only thing that would need to be improved for me would be the access to and from grounds. E.g. Wembley way can get pretty uncomfortable when leaving the stadium, although it has improved. If you suddenly put safe standing in the park lane end tomorrow, allowing an extra thousand or so people into the ground, the concourse at half time would be a fucking nightmare.

TLDR: the monumental fuck up of Hillsborough should not automatically be an argument against safe standing solutions in 2014 onwards. It's becoming less and less relevant in my opinion.
 
I8AVB said:
An attending footballer is one who attends matches. In my experience the majority of forum members rarely or ever do so. I have been going to Spurs since 1971, and have rarely met anyone from the left. The vast majority of attending supporters are still male and still working class, although the age profile is certainly older. Tell the average bloke in the Brewers that multiculturalism works, diversity is a good idea, and the LGBT community are normal, and there is a good chance you will be hung from the nearest lamp post. The comment I made above was obviously a joke, but regrettably there is a generation who have spent so much time on Facemouth and Twatter, they don't know what a joke is !
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We know what a cunt is, though. And if we ever forget, you pop in to remind us.

:dembelefingers:
 
spursmalc said:
Getting out from the shelf could be dodgy as everyone pushed and you were so crushed sometimes got to the first stair and realised my feet were both in the air and needed to get them on the ground. I was younger then and so ok but would not find it so easy now. Think the worst surge I was involved in was at one of the Wembley finals when we scored, cannot recall which one but ended up many yards forward to where I started. Makes today's safety look very boring.
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I used to get in early to stand right at the front of the shelf, and used to take three or four games to get conditioned to standing for nearly four hours. Nowadays I struggle to stand still for an hour in the pub before the game! I'm ok walking for miles, but standing still becomes quite painful. I enjoy the novelty of standing when we get moved, so for CL games, we opt for South Stand, and as the space is allocated, don't have to get there hours before to claim a good spot.
With regards to the Wembley surge, mine was definitely against Man City, when we though Glenn had scored a wondrous free kick. I think I must have moved down 10 steps of terracing. Would frighten the life out of me now or end up in traction, but back then, it was all part and parcel of watching a game live. My first visit to Wembley, and it was magical. Never thought I would be back there five days later, or that I would be back another five times in 18 months!
 
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