New Stadium

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Spursdem said:
See hiatus hiatus post from yesterday.

''I'm too lazy to go back and quote every post so here we go.

A London NFL team will bring in more revenue than any Premier League team, but especially Tottenham.

This is unlikely, in fact Tottenham is likely to generate more money than any potential London NFL franchise, especially in the first 10 years a team would be in London establishing a true local fan base and not just "NFL fans" of other teams. Fell free to read more here and here. For Spurs financial data, here.

The average NFL team made £355m in 2018. It's important to break that revenue down, however. About £216m of that is shared revenue (mostly TV money). The remaining income will be from "local" sources, which is a nice way of saying team controlled revenue. Given the assumed local (European) fanbase is around 6m in 2020 (source), and assuming they all instantly become London fans overnight, they are very comparable to the Philadelphia Eagles (metro area 6.1m), who made £378m last year.

Spurs in 2017/18 made £381m. Spurs are projected to make £450-500m in the new stadium.

Also, FYI, the cost of including the retractable pitch was likely somewhere in the £50-100m range, with the NFL chipping in £10m . It seems worth the investment given the NFL contract alone will likely bring in £40m (we made £4m this past week) , not to mention all the other events the club can host since we aren't destroying the pitch to host them.

ENIC will be getting an expansion NFL team or own an NFL team.

This is EXTREMELY unlikely, for a couple reasons.

1) The average NFL team is valued at £2.35b, but to actually purchase an existing or expansion team, it will likely cost £3b+ (that's 100 Sissokos!). ENIC is not paying that kind of money for an NFL team. And even if they would/could...

2) The NFL is not going to expand to bring in a London franchise. The NFL conference alignment and parity is heavily dependent on a certain number of franchises. It is much more likely the NFL simply relocates an existing team (my bet is on the Chargers, who are failing spectacularly in Los Angeles), and any owner that is looking to relocate to London will not be looking to sell.

The USA will only recognize "FUTURE STADIUM NAME HERE" as an NFL venue and some other rabbit-hole argument that I got lost in.

This is a bit silly. Americans will know that it's Tottenham's stadium, or probably "that Spurs soccer team". The NFL team will be a tenant, but the fact of the matter is that it is purpose built for multiple events and it will continue to expand the global presence of Tottenham, which is only a good thing.

ENIC will pocket all the revenue and won't reinvest any of it into the club!

Maybe! I don't know! That's not what Levy has been saying at THST meetings and all other public discussions regarding the stadium, but shrug emoji! No one knows. We can hope, though.

Apologies for not addressing some other things with more details, but this took my far longer to write than I was planning.''
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Don't think I have ever said this to you before, however - Thank You.

As I said I have no clue about the NFL.
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Good post. I think a London team would be a bit bigger than Philly though. They say there is 6m NFL fans in the UK. Yet there are only 6m PEOPLE in Philly.

There is 14m people in London alone. Its a much bigger and richer market.
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This is fair and I thought about that when I was trying to ballpark what I thought the London team would do out of the gate. I was trying to think "local" revenue. It's a hard comparison though because the Eagles disporia, if you will, is much larger than 6 million people. I also picked the Eagles because they are the 10th largest NFL team and Spurs are the 10th largest football club, so it seemed a good comp.

Honestly, outside of the Dallas Cowboys, who are more valuable than any other NFL team by 40%, the 2nd most valuable team (Patriots) made £462m last year, and New England has a population of around 15 million. This would be a better population comparison, but it's a global brand with huge recent success that inflates that number. They also own the stadium and a lot of other considerations. Also, the proportion of NFL fans in America to regional population is much, much higher than Britain/Europe.

So basically, it was a bit of a SWAG, but I still think its fair to say that Tottenham will likely bring in more money than any London NFL franchise in the near term. In 20 years? Who knows.
 
BF3 said:
This is fair and I thought about that when I was trying to ballpark what I thought the London team would do out of the gate. I was trying to think "local" revenue. It's a hard comparison though because the Eagles disporia, if you will, is much larger than 6 million people. I also picked the Eagles because they are the 10th largest NFL team and Spurs are the 10th largest football club, so it seemed a good comp.

Honestly, outside of the Dallas Cowboys, who are more valuable than any other NFL team by 40%, the 2nd most valuable team (Patriots) made £462m last year, and New England has a population of around 15 million. This would be a better population comparison, but it's a global brand with huge recent success that inflates that number. They also own the stadium and a lot of other considerations. Also, the proportion of NFL fans in America to regional population is much, much higher than Britain/Europe.

So basically, it was a bit of a SWAG, but I still think its fair to say that Tottenham will likely bring in more money than any London NFL franchise in the near term. In 20 years? Who knows.
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More education for John Thomas John Thomas
 
BF3 said:
This is fair and I thought about that when I was trying to ballpark what I thought the London team would do out of the gate. I was trying to think "local" revenue. It's a hard comparison though because the Eagles disporia, if you will, is much larger than 6 million people. I also picked the Eagles because they are the 10th largest NFL team and Spurs are the 10th largest football club, so it seemed a good comp.

Honestly, outside of the Dallas Cowboys, who are more valuable than any other NFL team by 40%, the 2nd most valuable team (Patriots) made £462m last year, and New England has a population of around 15 million. This would be a better population comparison, but it's a global brand with huge recent success that inflates that number. They also own the stadium and a lot of other considerations. Also, the proportion of NFL fans in America to regional population is much, much higher than Britain/Europe.

So basically, it was a bit of a SWAG, but I still think its fair to say that Tottenham will likely bring in more money than any London NFL franchise in the near term. In 20 years? Who knows.
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Sorry, I wasnt having a dig. The post was spot on.

Personally I think an NFL team in London could be on a par with Spurs pretty soon. I mean like 5-10 years. They get 200m straight of the bat from tv. Could easily bring in 50m from gates and matchday.

I dont think another 150m in sponsors would be hard to find. So 400m would be reachable pretty easily. Which coincidently is about the average NFL revenue. Beyond that would take success and alot of new fans.
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Sorry, I wasnt having a dig. The post was spot on.

Personally I think an NFL team in London could be on a par with Spurs pretty soon. I mean like 5-10 years. They get 200m straight of the bat from tv. Could easily bring in 50m from gates and matchday.

I dont think another 150m in sponsors would be hard to find. So 400m would be reachable pretty easily. Which coincidently is about the average NFL revenue. Beyond that would take success and alot of new fans.
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No worries, it was a good point to bring up in the context of the discussion.

Another way to look at it: The Rams moved to Los Angeles (13.1 million people) in 2018 - they made £313m last season. Granted, this was an established franchise founded in 1936 who had been in LA for nearly 50 years from 1946-1994, so there was a ready-made fan base, so its not exactly the same, but I think to expect anything more out of London in the near term would be very optimistic.
 
BF3 said:
No worries, it was a good point to bring up in the context of the discussion.

Another way to look at it: The Rams moved to Los Angeles (13.1 million people) in 2018 - they made £313m last season. Granted, this was an established franchise founded in 1936 who had been in LA for nearly 50 years from 1946-1994, so there was a ready-made fan base, so its not exactly the same, but I think to expect anything more out of London in the near term would be very optimistic.
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Fair enough. 300 to 400 is what I would guess. LA is quite saturated with teams. I think a London team would be more unique and have a whole country behind it. Just my tuppence.
 
Why do people assume that ENIC wouldn't be able to buy a NFL franchise, Joe is a multi billionaire and Daniel is also a billionaire now I think, they certainly have enough assets to borrow against as well.
 
superstaryid said:
Why do people assume that ENIC wouldn't be able to buy a NFL franchise, Joe is a multi billionaire and Daniel is also a billionaire now I think, they certainly have enough assets to borrow against as well.
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Levy and Lewis will not use their own personal wealth. How much have they personally pumped into Spurs?

All of which will mean that THFC won't see any real benefit from the NFL. Any monies from the NFL franchise will be used to pay back loans, pay players salaries etc
 
There is no way that all the money invested in the NFL pitch etc was done for just 2 games a season. The International Series is normally 4 games a season and Wembley's deal finishes next year so potentially, from 2021, there could be 4 games at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. All good income and publicity etc.
As to a Team playing a full season here, I feel that is a distinct possibility . Pretty much guaranteed sell outs. Its coming folks. yeeha.
 
Sir Alfred Conn said:
There is no way that all the money invested in the NFL pitch etc was done for just 2 games a season. The International Series is normally 4 games a season and Wembley's deal finishes next year so potentially, from 2021, there could be 4 games at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. All good income and publicity etc.
As to a Team playing a full season here, I feel that is a distinct possibility . Pretty much guaranteed sell outs. Its coming folks. yeeha.
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Correction. Its not an NFL pitch !

Its a retractable pitch which means that in addition to NFL it can be used for many sports, concerts and other events (Spurs can hold 25 non Spurs events every year - far more than can ever be used by an NFL team) such that the grass pitch is not affected.

So for the £50m or so invested in the retractable pitch, a wide variety of other income sources have been opened up which will easily repay that investment.

An NFL franchise remains a possibility (and might even be a probability) but the investment in the retractable pitch wasn't dependent upon an NFL franchise coming to the stadium. The investment in retractable pitch will be repaid regardless of NFL.
 
Sir Alfred Conn said:
There is no way that all the money invested in the NFL pitch etc was done for just 2 games a season. The International Series is normally 4 games a season and Wembley's deal finishes next year so potentially, from 2021, there could be 4 games at the Tottenham Hotspur Stadium. All good income and publicity etc.
As to a Team playing a full season here, I feel that is a distinct possibility . Pretty much guaranteed sell outs. Its coming folks. yeeha.
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Wasn't the deal with the NFL a minimum of 2 games a season?
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Interestingly enough the shirt sponsorship is just a forward payment based on the number of shirts you sell.

Apparantly we sell 600,000 a year. So 50 quid each (avg cost) . = 30 million a year

Therefore nike will offer 30m for the rights to sell the shirts.

If we could sell 1.2 million shirts a year. Then we could ask for 60m.

I think Woolwich sell about1.2m chelsea about 1.4m and liverpool 1m. United about 1.8m
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I don't doubt this is true - but it makes it even more baffling that the shirt manufacturers don't put more effort in to the designs

If a great design means increased sales they pocket all the extra money......
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Because they dont have a monopoly. There are much richer people in the world
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They allowed this guy to own a franchise, and he's not even a billionaire.

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So they're really not as picky as you seem to think.
 
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