New Stadium

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asterdroid said:
guessing off the top of my head, but I think the AIA pay rise came about because of the CL run and overall results, as well as moving in.
the Nike kit deal is apparently limited to our global reach because we don't sell as many shirts as the red lot, hence we're worth 25-30m while they're upping their levels to 75m. To sell more shirts - we need to maintain our top 4 - round of 16 appearances and fight for market share, but the NFL thing also helps to push our exposure in that direction.
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Interestingly enough the shirt sponsorship is just a forward payment based on the number of shirts you sell.

Apparantly we sell 600,000 a year. So 50 quid each (avg cost) . = 30 million a year

Therefore nike will offer 30m for the rights to sell the shirts.

If we could sell 1.2 million shirts a year. Then we could ask for 60m.

I think Woolwich sell about1.2m chelsea about 1.4m and liverpool 1m. United about 1.8m
 
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VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
The real money comes if we can be a bigger version of the O2. Remember when the stadium was built. The promotional blub said there is room for a venue bigger than the o2 but smaller than wembley.

If we can get 20 events going a year. Thats a different kettle of fish. Talking 50-70m extra profit.

But then you have to ask the question. Why would levy go through all that trouble to give the money to Spurs. Im sure Enic would want a fair size cut of that. It would turn into quite a large operation and a business in its own right.


Spurs wins either way because we get revenue that other clubs dont have the means to generate.
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The key to it is ownership of a venue in the centre of London.

The stadium has been built to be multi purpose and has the rooms attached to make it the 3rd largest conference centre in London (as I understand it).

So multiple revenue streams from it, but all from a stadium site owned by Spurs.

Sure its complicated to have a so many income streams/different businesses, but Levy will be hiring a number of managers to deal with all those things.

So far ENIC/Levy have not taken anything out of Spurs - the last dividend paid was over a decade ago. And the reason is simply that, like many investors, they see a better return by not taking cash out but leaving it invested in the business and they only get a return if/when they sell the business.

And to date nobody has offered enough - and given the revenue streams will be growing significantly for a few years to come, that comes as no surprise to me as new investors wont be as bullish about the new revenue streams as Levy is.

So for the next few years, at a minimum I think we'll see revenues growing all of which will go to improve Spurs - so all good news.

Nobody can have any certainly beyond that timeline - other than ENIC/Levy expects Spurs to be in a better state of health than before the stadium was built (the reason why the stadium was built).
 
Spursidol said:
The key to it is ownership of a venue in the centre of London.

The stadium has been built to be multi purpose and has the rooms attached to make it the 3rd largest conference centre in London (as I understand it).

So multiple revenue streams from it, but all from a stadium site owned by Spurs.

Sure its complicated to have a so many income streams/different businesses, but Levy will be hiring a number of managers to deal with all those things.

So far ENIC/Levy have not taken anything out of Spurs - the last dividend paid was over a decade ago. And the reason is simply that, like many investors, they see a better return by not taking cash out but leaving it invested in the business and they only get a return if/when they sell the business.

And to date nobody has offered enough - and given the revenue streams will be growing significantly for a few years to come, that comes as no surprise to me as new investors wont be as bullish about the new revenue streams as Levy is.

So for the next few years, at a minimum I think we'll see revenues growing all of which will go to improve Spurs - so all good news.

Nobody can have any certainly beyond that timeline - other than ENIC/Levy expects Spurs to be in a better state of health than before the stadium was built (the reason why the stadium was built).
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Its not so much the complication of various businesses. As a Spurs fan, Id like to know which business revenues belong to spurs?

I reckon we will turn over 450m this year. Which is great.

but how much of the business not directly related to spurs will generate money for Spurs?

ie NFL shirt sales, Conferences, Events and so on. As the Levy sceptics say. They look and sound like seperate businesses. I suppose Im cool with that if it pays for the stadium. But many will not be.
 
VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Its not so much the complication of various businesses. As a Spurs fan, Id like to know which business revenues belong to spurs?

I reckon we will turn over 450m this year. Which is great.

but how much of the business not directly related to spurs will generate money for Spurs?

ie NFL shirt sales, Conferences, Events and so on. As the Levy sceptics say. They look and sound like seperate businesses. I suppose Im cool with that if it pays for the stadium. But many will not be.
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I'm not sure we will ever know the level of detail to know. And I think it may be difficult to agree where the dividing line is - you could argue that the majority of 'commercial income' is not related to Spurs other than any premium seating income and some of the drink and food revenues from Spurs matches (but not NFL and conferences). My gut feeling says 2/3rds will be Spurs, 1/3rd non Spurs related.

But even if you did know all the detail, many of the costs are 'common' to both Spurs related and non Spurs related income streams, so working out the 'profitability' of each income stream becomes just a question as to how you decide how to allocate costs.

For example the rates bill for the stadium site will be multiple millions of pounds. It is paid regardless of whether NFL play there or any conferences are held. So it could be argued to allocate it all to Spurs matches - possibly making it questionable whether Spurs football matches are 'that profitable' or it could be allocated on some other basis such as on a % of revenues.

So the profitability or 'worthwhileness' of any income stream, whether directly Spurs related or not, becomes entirely dependent upon the basis of allocation of some of the fixed costs Spurs have in the stadium.
 
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VoiceOfThePoshSeats said:
Where are they gonna get the money from? And dont you think richer people would be interested too?

There would be a queue out the door for a new nfl team. These people would kill themselves if they were only as rich as levy.
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Oh no idea. I just really wrote they would be interested.

But say it was true, I fear it would be their own capital, external capital partners and ...

... leveraged debts in Tottenham Hotspur FC.
 
JohnH said:
Isn't there a new franchise (European) getting started? (NFL is not my kettle of fish at all). A new franchise wouldn't cost that much money, more like £200mil?
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hahahahahahahaha are you confused with MLS?

The lowest valued team is worth 2billion dollars. The highest valued at 5.5billion.

A team with access to london could easily cost 4 billion. Its a license to print money.
 
JohnH said:
Source?

Edit: I genuinely know fuck all about NFL, so interested why it would cost so much.
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See hiatus hiatus post from yesterday.

''I'm too lazy to go back and quote every post so here we go.

A London NFL team will bring in more revenue than any Premier League team, but especially Tottenham.

This is unlikely, in fact Tottenham is likely to generate more money than any potential London NFL franchise, especially in the first 10 years a team would be in London establishing a true local fan base and not just "NFL fans" of other teams. Fell free to read more here and here. For Spurs financial data, here.

The average NFL team made £355m in 2018. It's important to break that revenue down, however. About £216m of that is shared revenue (mostly TV money). The remaining income will be from "local" sources, which is a nice way of saying team controlled revenue. Given the assumed local (European) fanbase is around 6m in 2020 (source), and assuming they all instantly become London fans overnight, they are very comparable to the Philadelphia Eagles (metro area 6.1m), who made £378m last year.

Spurs in 2017/18 made £381m. Spurs are projected to make £450-500m in the new stadium.

Also, FYI, the cost of including the retractable pitch was likely somewhere in the £50-100m range, with the NFL chipping in £10m . It seems worth the investment given the NFL contract alone will likely bring in £40m (we made £4m this past week) , not to mention all the other events the club can host since we aren't destroying the pitch to host them.

ENIC will be getting an expansion NFL team or own an NFL team.

This is EXTREMELY unlikely, for a couple reasons.

1) The average NFL team is valued at £2.35b, but to actually purchase an existing or expansion team, it will likely cost £3b+ (that's 100 Sissokos!). ENIC is not paying that kind of money for an NFL team. And even if they would/could...

2) The NFL is not going to expand to bring in a London franchise. The NFL conference alignment and parity is heavily dependent on a certain number of franchises. It is much more likely the NFL simply relocates an existing team (my bet is on the Chargers, who are failing spectacularly in Los Angeles), and any owner that is looking to relocate to London will not be looking to sell.

The USA will only recognize "FUTURE STADIUM NAME HERE" as an NFL venue and some other rabbit-hole argument that I got lost in.

This is a bit silly. Americans will know that it's Tottenham's stadium, or probably "that Spurs soccer team". The NFL team will be a tenant, but the fact of the matter is that it is purpose built for multiple events and it will continue to expand the global presence of Tottenham, which is only a good thing.

ENIC will pocket all the revenue and won't reinvest any of it into the club!

Maybe! I don't know! That's not what Levy has been saying at THST meetings and all other public discussions regarding the stadium, but shrug emoji! No one knows. We can hope, though.

Apologies for not addressing some other things with more details, but this took my far longer to write than I was planning.''
 
Spursdem said:
See hiatus hiatus post from yesterday.

''I'm too lazy to go back and quote every post so here we go.

A London NFL team will bring in more revenue than any Premier League team, but especially Tottenham.

This is unlikely, in fact Tottenham is likely to generate more money than any potential London NFL franchise, especially in the first 10 years a team would be in London establishing a true local fan base and not just "NFL fans" of other teams. Fell free to read more here and here. For Spurs financial data, here.

The average NFL team made £355m in 2018. It's important to break that revenue down, however. About £216m of that is shared revenue (mostly TV money). The remaining income will be from "local" sources, which is a nice way of saying team controlled revenue. Given the assumed local (European) fanbase is around 6m in 2020 (source), and assuming they all instantly become London fans overnight, they are very comparable to the Philadelphia Eagles (metro area 6.1m), who made £378m last year.

Spurs in 2017/18 made £381m. Spurs are projected to make £450-500m in the new stadium.

Also, FYI, the cost of including the retractable pitch was likely somewhere in the £50-100m range, with the NFL chipping in £10m . It seems worth the investment given the NFL contract alone will likely bring in £40m (we made £4m this past week) , not to mention all the other events the club can host since we aren't destroying the pitch to host them.

ENIC will be getting an expansion NFL team or own an NFL team.

This is EXTREMELY unlikely, for a couple reasons.

1) The average NFL team is valued at £2.35b, but to actually purchase an existing or expansion team, it will likely cost £3b+ (that's 100 Sissokos!). ENIC is not paying that kind of money for an NFL team. And even if they would/could...

2) The NFL is not going to expand to bring in a London franchise. The NFL conference alignment and parity is heavily dependent on a certain number of franchises. It is much more likely the NFL simply relocates an existing team (my bet is on the Chargers, who are failing spectacularly in Los Angeles), and any owner that is looking to relocate to London will not be looking to sell.

The USA will only recognize "FUTURE STADIUM NAME HERE" as an NFL venue and some other rabbit-hole argument that I got lost in.

This is a bit silly. Americans will know that it's Tottenham's stadium, or probably "that Spurs soccer team". The NFL team will be a tenant, but the fact of the matter is that it is purpose built for multiple events and it will continue to expand the global presence of Tottenham, which is only a good thing.

ENIC will pocket all the revenue and won't reinvest any of it into the club!

Maybe! I don't know! That's not what Levy has been saying at THST meetings and all other public discussions regarding the stadium, but shrug emoji! No one knows. We can hope, though.

Apologies for not addressing some other things with more details, but this took my far longer to write than I was planning.''
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Good post. I think a London team would be a bit bigger than Philly though. They say there is 6m NFL fans in the UK. Yet there are only 6m PEOPLE in Philly.

There is 14m people in London alone. Its a much bigger and richer market.
 
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