Man Utd (A) - 11 DEC

[1882]

Tell us how you really feel, mate

Incandescent!

 

[DeeGee]

I'm sure this thread is in its final death throes, but I thought I'd add my thoughts.

I only managed to catch the last 20 mins, plus the highlights on MOTD. It wasn't our best performance, but I don't think there's any need to melt - as many on here seem to be doing. I've even seen a few calling for Poch's head - which is ridiculous.

I know stats don't always mean much, but it looks as though we dominated that game (certainly in terms of possession). We obviously lack a cutting edge at the moment, and we need to play much quicker (even if that results in less possession), but at least we have the basics in place - something to build on.

To put it all into a bit more perspective: we've played AWAY at three of the top six (and at home against the other three). We've had the toughest fixtures compared to those around us - by far. With any luck, we'll pick up 6 points in our next two games, which will put us right back in the mix for top 4. The way things are going at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if Lolerpool and Citeh are the ones that we'll be battling with for top 4 this year. Hopefully the former as I take a special, perverse pleasure in seeing them fail.

Onwards and upwards lads.

6 points form the next 2 games will only put us into the mix for the top 4 if both Man City and Liverpool slip up and drop 3-4 points each.
Man U are now breathing down our necks and we cannot afford anymore dropped points at home and our away form has to improve (4 draws, 2 wins and 2 losses)
Looking at us this season I really don't think we are up for it.
Again converting shots on goal is our weakness. The most shots on goal, as last season, better than Liverpool with 102(53%) shots on goal yet our conversion rate is12% ,3rd from bottom. Hull have a better conversion rate and so do Swansea , Sunderland and Spam
Liverpool have101shots on goal & a 20% conversion rate
Woolwich have 77shots on goal and converted 23%
Chelsea 85 and 20%
Premier League - Conversion rate 16/17 | Transfermarkt
Been saying it for a while we need lots of chances to score a goal and we don't have any decent finishers in midfield.
We haven't improved there and it's worrying.
We are also, with or insistence on keeping the ball at all costs, gifted teams chances/goals in both pl/CL and individual errors have cost us -off the top of my head-9 points this season

We won't challenge for anything until we can be more clinical in front of goal . Simple as. We would have won the title last year if we had been- it can't just be every fucking keeper has a worldie v us and is shit the next.

But we have a team who are young and learning, but I doubt that applies to Eriksen,son,sissoko, dembele, or even lamela.

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Very disappointed today. I think this is a crucial loss of three points. I am beginning to worry about the direction of our season. That's all I'll say, save the usual accusations of "melting".

We are so poor in the final third, even with all that injury time I was thinking we wouldn't score if the game went on an extra hour. We created one really good goalscoring opportunity which unfortunately fell to Wanyama. Even at Chelsea despite playing well we didn't create much in the way of clear chances. On the other hand yesterday United have many chances either, and the goal came from a mistake; our defence is still looking good.

I hate to say it but our football is dull at the moment.

I think it's not helping that we all (both players and fans) have such high expectations for this team, i.e. to challenge for the league title. It will probably be a better season if we are happy with challenging for winning a cup and challenging for top four.

 

[spursmalc]

We are so poor in the final third, even with all that injury time I was thinking we wouldn't score if the game went on an extra hour. We created one really good goalscoring opportunity which unfortunately fell to Wanyama. Even at Chelsea despite playing well we didn't create much in the way of clear chances. On the other hand yesterday United have many chances either, and the goal came from a mistake; our defence is still looking good.

I hate to say it but our football is dull at the moment.

I think it's not helping that we all (both players and fans) have such high expectations for this team, i.e. to challenge for the league title. It will probably be a better season if we are happy with challenging for winning a cup and challenging for top four.

They got Wanyama free a couple of times at free kicks as Gary Neville pointed out. But why was he playing that role when we have better headers of the ball that would have converted it?

 

[Bazali]

From the start we tried to keep possession at all costs, only problem was Wanyama wasn't dropping back in between the centre backs like Dier does so Alderweireld and Vertonghen weren't getting enough options playing out, you could see Poch wanted to change this and gave a few instructions before the goal and just as our shape seemed to be transforming Kane gave the ball away and they came through.

I said this at half time but ignoring my obvious bias in me wanting us to win it was a fantastic match, kept me well and truly entertained despite the fact I was having to watch it on my laptop and it was bordering on 3AM by full time.

Apparently just before their goal Poch had told Sonny n Erikssen to switch sides and neither had made the transition both being still in midfield, hence the obvious gap allowing Herrera to thread the ball through between Toby and Verts but the guy took it well

Hugo had no chance!

 

[Bazali]

Am I the only one that didn't think we played that bad? I thought it was a high quality football match and their midfield (in particular Carrick and Pogba who were excellent) won the battle for them. One little mistake in transition by Harry and a poor bit of positioning in the same move by Wanyama and thats it but I thought we weren't exactly awful like some people are saying.

It was a good game for the neutrals I'll give you that!

Still fuming me!!

 

[Bazali]

6 points form the next 2 games will only put us into the mix for the top 4 if both Man City and Liverpool slip up and drop 3-4 points each.
Man U are now breathing down our necks and we cannot afford anymore dropped points at home and our away form has to improve (4 draws, 2 wins and 2 losses)
Looking at us this season I really don't think we are up for it.
Again converting shots on goal is our weakness. The most shots on goal, as last season, better than Liverpool with 102(53%) shots on goal yet our conversion rate is12% ,3rd from bottom. Hull have a better conversion rate and so do Swansea , Sunderland and Spam
Liverpool have101shots on goal & a 20% conversion rate
Woolwich have 77shots on goal and converted 23%
Chelsea 85 and 20%
Premier League - Conversion rate 16/17 | Transfermarkt
Been saying it for a while we need lots of chances to score a goal and we don't have any decent finishers in midfield.
We haven't improved there and it's worrying.
We are also, with or insistence on keeping the ball at all costs, gifted teams chances/goals in both pl/CL and individual errors have cost us -off the top of my head-9 points this season

We won't challenge for anything until we can be more clinical in front of goal . Simple as. We would have won the title last year if we had been- it can't just be every fucking keeper has a worldie v us and is shit the next.

But we have a team who are young and learning, but I doubt that applies to Eriksen,son,sissoko, dembele, or even lamela.

I take your point about being clinical in front of goal but apart from Wanyama's awful miss what other chances did we create?

 

[clevelandspur]

I take your point about being clinical in front of goal but apart from Wanyama's awful miss what other chances did we create?

I can't think of any really which has been a common theme for us unfortunately. I still don't understand why Dele decided to cut back in the box when he was clean through on goal but even that I guess is only a half chance.

 

[Bazali]

I can't think of any really which has been a common theme for us unfortunately. I still don't understand why Dele decided to cut back in the box when he was clean through on goal but even that I guess is only a half chance.

Yes he shd have carried on and put his left foot through it!!

Their defence with Jones and Damian is gash but we didn't pressure it

 

[n17troops]

How the club do on the pitch is more important to me than the opinion of some of our fans.
I was disagreeing with billy finding opinions of fans like john more disappointing than us losing.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

We are so poor in the final third, even with all that injury time I was thinking we wouldn't score if the game went on an extra hour. We created one really good goalscoring opportunity which unfortunately fell to Wanyama. Even at Chelsea despite playing well we didn't create much in the way of clear chances. On the other hand yesterday United have many chances either, and the goal came from a mistake; our defence is still looking good.

I hate to say it but our football is dull at the moment.

I think it's not helping that we all (both players and fans) have such high expectations for this team, i.e. to challenge for the league title. It will probably be a better season if we are happy with challenging for winning a cup and challenging for top four.

Yes, you are absolutely right about raised expectations. But if you put that aside, I am not convinced we are playing that much better than in AVB's fateful season. I think we have a problem where last season's wonderful campaign and dynamic performances have convinced fans (and probably Levy) that we're just in a blip. But we have a squad that is more than capable of top four and in that respect we have seriously underperformed since September, not least in our reliance on draws and penalties. Hell, let's not forget that our highest league points total was under the now despised AVB the season before it all went off the rails and he got sacked. The squad showed last year what it can do. We should be picking up more points in the league, let alone the farcical CL campaign.

A few more shit results and people will start looking at Poch (and not without justification as he dipped after a while at both Espanyol and Southampton). Frankly I think it's time for our lads to start earning their crust and putting in the same effort as last season.

 

[Fattynomates]

We're still 1 point better off then we were last season at this stage.

How many points of top and 4th were we this time last season!? As I don't remember the gap being quite so big?

 

[Jenny Talia]

How many points of top and 4th were we this time last season!? As I don't remember the gap being quite so big?

It was about now we went berserk.
From Christmas to the end of February we won 9 and drew 1 out of 11 league games. Losing to Leicester at ours was the only blip.

 

[Fattynomates]

It was about now we went berserk.
From Christmas to the end of February we won 9 and drew 1 out of 11 league games. Losing to Leicester at ours was the only blip.

We have got a nice run coming up now!! Still think we can get top 4, although Poch saying we are still in the title race I just can't see this, it's not just down to us, it's just at the moment I can't see the Chavs dropping 10 points.... still be extremely happy with top 4! And EL..... maybe the FA cup as well.......

 

[palmers_green_yid]

Yes, you are absolutely right about raised expectations. But if you put that aside, I am not convinced we are playing that much better than in AVB's fateful season. I think we have a problem where last season's wonderful campaign and dynamic performances have convinced fans (and probably Levy) that we're just in a blip. But we have a squad that is more than capable of top four and in that respect we have seriously underperformed since September, not least in our reliance on draws and penalties. Hell, let's not forget that our highest league points total was under the now despised AVB the season before it all went off the rails and he got sacked. The squad showed last year what it can do. We should be picking up more points in the league, let alone the farcical CL campaign.

A few more shit results and people will start looking at Poch (and not without justification as he dipped after a while at both Espanyol and Southampton). Frankly I think it's time for our lads to start earning their crust and putting in the same effort as last season.

Another way of looking at it, is to say if we are where we are now this time last season, we would be mostly happy, thinking we can still get top four. This season we have got new players, but also we've had lots of injuries we didn't have last season...as well as other problems that have been well documented, and the opposition is tougher.

At the point at which AVB was sacked we had the same amount of points as we do now, with one more game played. Which would back up what you are saying.

We are harder to beat than under AVB. You can't imagine this team losing 5-0 or 6-0. I'd say the football this season is better than that AVB season but not by that much (except for the period between Stoke away and half time at West Brom, when we looked awesome). That said I'm also not convinced that it's a blip and that suddenly the team of last year will emerge. I think it is partly the players not trying as hard, but I think there's inevitably going to be some difference now that we're not winning every week and not in a title race. Success breeds success, confidence breeds a better work rate.

Re: Poch, on the contrary I would say give him a few years to sort things out. I can imagine us having a difficult few years with the transition to the new ground but then coming back strongly under Poch. He has shown enough to make me think that he is a top manager. It will take quite a while to change that view (personally).

Re: your view that the squad is more than good enough for top four...I'm not sure we can judge that on last season's basis. Other teams were in crisis, we had very few injuries, Kane and Dembele were fitter, we were playing in the EL not the CL. I'd say last year things fell into place for us and Poch got the best out of the players, rather than saying we are more than good enough for top four...which would make last season "par" rather than an excellent achievement.

Overall...see where you are coming from and I am also concerned, but perhaps a bit more optimistic than you, particularly regarding Poch. I also think it's about time that we stuck with a manager to see where it takes us, especially with the turbulent few years that are ahead (not saying you think he should be sacked, just picking up on your comment of people criticising him with some justification if we have another couple of shit performances).

 

[Totti]

How many points of top and 4th were we this time last season!? As I don't remember the gap being quite so big?

Gameweek 15 last year:
1. Leicester - 32 pts
2. Woolwich - 30 pts
3. Man City - 29 pts.
4. Man Utd - 29 pts.
-------------------------------
5. Tottenham - 26 pts.


So basically, the same as we are now when it comes to points off top 4. We were 6 points off top last season but we find ourselves 10 points off it now. HOWEVER, at the next gameweek we stayed 3 points off 4th but then went 9 points off top so so far it's looking pretty similar (especially if Chelsea, City and Spurs all win midweek)

 

[sammyspurs]

3pts off top 4 with 23 games left.....Im not sure if its the team thats lost its way or us.
The season doesnt end at Christmas.....its not even halfway done.

How many more points would we expect right now, with the problems we've had.
10? Bit much to expect right...?
6? Maybe....with our injuries though, could be asking a lot?
3? 4? Yeah why not.......so all the panic over 3 or 4pts?

 

[bk_spur]

Steps to achieving a Top 4 finish:
1) Keep pace with weekly points acquisition of other Top 4 clubs
2) Beat other Top 4 clubs for a 6 point swing in the table
3) Beat clubs on the fringe of the Top 4 to keep them off of our backs and to put more pressure on them to win vs other Top 4 clubs.

We've been fucking awful at this so far this year, with the lone exception of our match against Man City.

 

[Totti]

3pts off top 4 with 23 games left.....Im not sure if its the team thats lost its way or us.
The season doesnt end at Christmas.....its not even halfway done.

How many more points would we expect right now, with the problems we've had.
10? Bit much to expect right...?
6? Maybe....with our injuries though, could be asking a lot?
3? 4? Yeah why not.......so all the panic over 3 or 4pts?

Completely agree.

I also think from April onwards, the fixtures are very kind to us. One of our easiest end of season runs in a long time.

 

[LeeMcl]

We have got a nice run coming up now!! Still think we can get top 4, although Poch saying we are still in the title race I just can't see this, it's not just down to us, it's just at the moment I can't see the Chavs dropping 10 points.... still be extremely happy with top 4! And EL..... maybe the FA cup as well.......

Extreamly happy that Chelsea are ten points clear of us at Christmas time and we might get Top 4? I do understand what you mean and why you would say that. But I am fucking Sick to death of coming second / third / forth or worse to utter scum like Chelsea. I am sorry. But Spurs have everything to be the top team. Everything but bollocks to actually do it. Straight jacketed by fear. Happy to be the bitch to Woolwich and Chelsea. It's about time this fella either stumped up or fucked off.