If only it was that simple eh, I mean we bought a well regarded goal scoring Dutchman but he flopped, it’s just a bullshit idea to suggest we haven’t been looking.
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If only it was that simple eh, I mean we bought a well regarded goal scoring Dutchman but he flopped, it’s just a bullshit idea to suggest we haven’t been looking.
Brother l measure it by trophies , the 60,s we were the Rolling Stones , double , first Brit euro winners, the 70s we were Neil Young ( good but no where near as successful and all went downhill) the 80s Depeche mode ( lots of hits but loosing it in later years) , the most successful cup side ever at that stage.
Brother many of us measure success in a traditional way .
Brother many of us measure success in a traditional way .
" l measure it by trophies" - that's fair enough although it's not the "traditional" way ... so let's see
You have us behind Utd, Liverpool, Woolwich, Chelsea, Man City, Villa, Everton, Sunderland, Newcastle, Sheffield Wednesday, Wolves, Blackburn, Leeds, Huddersfield all of whom have won the league more times than us .... you put us level with Portsmouth, Burnley, Preston North End, and Derby ... that's how you rank us? your "traditional" way
Most people over a decade measure a team either on it's win/loss percentage or on it's average final league position .. but you do your own thing whatever fits your argument.
Your a clever dude and all that measuring out mean averages over decades shows your one hot maths cat .
My Grandaddy had a poster in his outside W.C shack. It was Spurs 61 team marching around Wembley with FA cup and securing the double.
My pa had Mr Perryman lifting the cup in 81 in his timber yard.
Those are the real emotions and love vibe many of us want brother.
We just ain't getting on the same train .
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Does that really tell the story correctly ? If a team is doing well in a cup competition and can’t win the league, would the focus not then have been on the cup and not the league position ?
So by default the better you are in cups then the more likely you will be to finish lower in the league.
look at 2008. We won the league cup and were dead in the league afterwards. 1991 finished 10th. 1981 finished 10th. Even when we have made semi finals etc the league form can suffer. Argument there that our league form went off a cliff due to Champions League run only last year.
I do agree that in relatively recent years league placing is more important that the domestic cups and that’s why that has become the focus. Overall, to be honest, I’d rather the current focus on the league placing though. I do feel it’s a better guide.
My mate has posters of Forest lifting the European Cup twice ... on his bloody phone ... does that make them better than us because we've never won it?
On the day the side lifting the Cup is the best side ... at the end of the season the side lifting the Title is the best one ... but only at that moment.
Over a decade it's the average performance that determines the best team .. it's not clever maths it's something even a simpleton can grasp ...
Nobody will ever argue that the Spurs '61 side wasn't the best team of that season ... but both Liverpool and Utd won more titles in the sixties, so who were the better team of the decade? We didn't finish second again until 2017 ....
I was there when Steve lifted the 81 cup and again in 82 but even then Utd won more Cups in the eighties than we did, so who were the better cup side that decade?
Would you rather have our sides of the 70's 80's 90's and 00's who never once made the top two, and who never realistically had a chance of a European Cup or a Champions League ....
or would you have the squad of the last decade who at least got us pretty close?
Good theory and I agreed with that until I looked at all the teams that have won the cup recently .... since 1995 only two teams outside the EPL big five have won the FA Cup Portsmouth and Wigan in twenty five years it's Utd 4, Woolwich 7, Liverpool 2, Chelsea 7, City 2 and on yearn every occasion they still finished first or second in the EPL.
We are now also a big club and should be joining that cup winning list soon, but it's no easy ride.
Mr Bangkok ,
Back yonder teams emphasized the cups far more as fourth place never got you into the champions League. Measuring success was very different than today. Personally brother I think it's impossible to compare like to like as the times have changed so much.
I take your polite reply on board but don't necessarily agree but do understand your point.
Back yonder teams emphasized the cups far more as fourth place never got you into the champions League. Measuring success was very different than today. Personally brother I think it's impossible to compare like to like as the times have changed so much.
I take your polite reply on board but don't necessarily agree but do understand your point.
For anybody to say DL doesn’t care about football - well that’s just bonkers in my humble opinion.
He has been chairman for 19 years - longer than any other PL chairman. He regularly goes to the games - let’s suppose he gets to 30 games a season. That is 51,300 minutes of watching Spurs - including though the mostly diabolical noughties. To suggest that is all part of a cunning plan to enrich himself at the expense of the club is tin foil hat stuff.
He hasn’t always got it right - he would probably be the first to say that but look at the business facts: he has led us to be the eighth richest club in world football at a time when other clubs have become the playthings of the oil billionaires; he has delivered arguably the best stadium in world football with no expense spared; he has brokered deals to use the stadium to host events and other sports that will bring more revenue to the club; he has provided world class training facilities.
Yes, yes ... I get that for all of this success on the balance sheet the trophy cabinet remains conspicuously barren, but we are now getting to finals and semi finals and we are now in a better place to compete for silverware than we were when he started.
And if you want to consider the alternatives, just look over at that shambles of a board at West Ham. Would anyone really take GSB over Levy?
He has been chairman for 19 years - longer than any other PL chairman. He regularly goes to the games - let’s suppose he gets to 30 games a season. That is 51,300 minutes of watching Spurs - including though the mostly diabolical noughties. To suggest that is all part of a cunning plan to enrich himself at the expense of the club is tin foil hat stuff.
He hasn’t always got it right - he would probably be the first to say that but look at the business facts: he has led us to be the eighth richest club in world football at a time when other clubs have become the playthings of the oil billionaires; he has delivered arguably the best stadium in world football with no expense spared; he has brokered deals to use the stadium to host events and other sports that will bring more revenue to the club; he has provided world class training facilities.
Yes, yes ... I get that for all of this success on the balance sheet the trophy cabinet remains conspicuously barren, but we are now getting to finals and semi finals and we are now in a better place to compete for silverware than we were when he started.
And if you want to consider the alternatives, just look over at that shambles of a board at West Ham. Would anyone really take GSB over Levy?
Pick any quote that could knock Levy and run with it like a blind child, that's basicallyJohn Thomas MO. He is the most annoying poster on here, and believe me that takes some fucking doing.
Come on now
That’s a serious allegation on here
lol
Dude that his job what he gets paid for.
Brother I must be " bonkers " personally I would rather have the Liverpool model that emphasises the first 11 over everything else.
Well yes, I also wish we were reigning European champions and 12 points from wrapping up the title in March. I know DL is marmite but I think in this era of professional sport success on the field and commercially are inextricably linked. You simply can’t have one without the other. I don’t think it’s a binary choice: money or trophies. I think if we have the finances in a good place the latter will surely follow. Don’t worry ... you’ll soon have a poster of Harry holding aloft a shiny trophy to adorn your bog!
So you want to be like a club that has been in the top ten rich list since 1998 (Liverpool) think that's exactly what Levy has been going for ....
Or do you think the top clubs got there by luck .... most trophy winning clubs in European Football Barcelona, Real Madrid, Man Utd, Bayern, PSG, Man City, Liverpool, Chelsea Juventus, Woolwich ....
Want to guess who the richest clubs in Europe have been for the last decade? exactly the same clubs
Chicken and egg - money comes before success - just have patience we've waited nearly 50 years a few more won't kill us.
FYI - Liverpool have use 23 players in the EPL this season 19 have made 8 or more appearances, that's hardly all about the first 11 .....
Going back to
John Thomas
original question for a minute.
The Poll currently shows 73.8% do not agree with 'Levy out'
Just thought an update might be useful, as its a pretty emphatic answer after 5 months (poll opened 29 September).
John Thomas
original question for a minute.The Poll currently shows 73.8% do not agree with 'Levy out'
Just thought an update might be useful, as its a pretty emphatic answer after 5 months (poll opened 29 September).
Ah !!Going back to
The Poll currently shows 73.8% do not agree with 'Levy out'
Just thought an update might be useful, as its a pretty emphatic answer after 5 months (poll opened 29 September).
B..b...but only 275 members have voted.
So, in some strange ,alternative reality that means that the vast majority on here want him out.
Can’t be true. People must be telling lies when they vote. We all know Levy should go because he hasn’t signed all the players. And we haven’t won Wimbledon and the Eurovision.Going back to
The Poll currently shows 73.8% do not agree with 'Levy out'
Just thought an update might be useful, as its a pretty emphatic answer after 5 months (poll opened 29 September).
If the poll has been open for 5 months and people haven't voted then you cant assume they will only vote one way or the other. So its still true that its 73.8% don't agree with the original question.
I’d also suggest that this forum is a magnet for the more outspoken and negative of our fan base. Therefore I’d suggest that the actual numbers would be even wider apart.
But it seems like the majority want change sometimes as they’re the ones on here after we draw a match, stamping their feet, having a good shout and generally sucking one another off. There’s a lot of noise behind the LOB, but very little substance or support.
I’m sure we’ll see another poll soon though.
pipes
Ok here's my go at a rebuttal. You have argued with some eloquence (I'll add) our debt to Levy and ENIC. Citing our toils with Iverson, Fox, Sinton, all of whom I remember with affection and dispair(I'll see them and raise you: Thomas, Doherty, and Booth.
You also talk correctly about infrastructure: training ground, lodge stadium. All of this overlooks the huge incremental fortunes in TV revenues, global streaming technology, and online merchandising that had zero to do with Levy and benefited all EPL owners in this period. Now as the clubs custodian what I'll give him is that he put that windfall into the football club which I'd not have trusted Sugar Venables or Scholar to do.
But -and I love a big one a brother can not lie- this misses the major criticism of him, that I and many have. Its not what he has done, but what he did not do. When posters say "I don't trust the slimy****" They often mean..."to finish the job" He is penny wise and pound foolish. Yes he has built a sustainable elite business but he has on a couple of occasions stood at the threshold of building an elite winning football team and lacked the vision to seize that opportunity and a bigger fortune as a result.
No one argues he has not been a good steward for the clubs stability but what is his sporting legacy as an owner? When we pushed Lecister for the title investment in two elite level players in my opinion yields a title, ditto when a Liverpool side we had dismantled 4-1 at Wembley added VVD and Alison to become the worlds best team by some distance had we matched that ambition where would we be? My belife is at the summit.
Yes we owe Levy a debt, but this does not mean he has not made mistakes, nor that he could have done better. I believe he lacks vision, and I also worry that the dual nature of the ground(NFL/Soccer) point to less than a total commitment to the football teams success. He has insured ENIC duel revenue streams certainly,but that term 'anchor tenant' should make you sick to your stomach, before we laugh too heartily at West ham. Many people think he has taken us as far as he can, just as he felt Pochettino and Jol had. I am certainly one if them.
You also talk correctly about infrastructure: training ground, lodge stadium. All of this overlooks the huge incremental fortunes in TV revenues, global streaming technology, and online merchandising that had zero to do with Levy and benefited all EPL owners in this period. Now as the clubs custodian what I'll give him is that he put that windfall into the football club which I'd not have trusted Sugar Venables or Scholar to do.
But -and I love a big one a brother can not lie- this misses the major criticism of him, that I and many have. Its not what he has done, but what he did not do. When posters say "I don't trust the slimy****" They often mean..."to finish the job" He is penny wise and pound foolish. Yes he has built a sustainable elite business but he has on a couple of occasions stood at the threshold of building an elite winning football team and lacked the vision to seize that opportunity and a bigger fortune as a result.
No one argues he has not been a good steward for the clubs stability but what is his sporting legacy as an owner? When we pushed Lecister for the title investment in two elite level players in my opinion yields a title, ditto when a Liverpool side we had dismantled 4-1 at Wembley added VVD and Alison to become the worlds best team by some distance had we matched that ambition where would we be? My belife is at the summit.
Yes we owe Levy a debt, but this does not mean he has not made mistakes, nor that he could have done better. I believe he lacks vision, and I also worry that the dual nature of the ground(NFL/Soccer) point to less than a total commitment to the football teams success. He has insured ENIC duel revenue streams certainly,but that term 'anchor tenant' should make you sick to your stomach, before we laugh too heartily at West ham. Many people think he has taken us as far as he can, just as he felt Pochettino and Jol had. I am certainly one if them.