Levy / ENIC

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sammyspurs said:
Yet many also said we were fatigued, Wembley, injuries and had our best season in decades.
Theyve all forgotten what they said last year.

Eriksen wasnt shit last year, poor little thing was knackered.
Now he should have been sold.

Cake and eat springs to mind.
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Hard to see at the time though mate, that's the issue, think the CL run blinded many people, including myself, to the flaws that were apparent after the Burnley game, I kept believing he could turn it around, we had blips before and he managed it, like the heavy Newcastle defeat etc just figured we needed some new bodies in and all would be well again and the CL run was reaffirming that.

Sadly this season has shown me that the manager simply isn't up to it, I think there is a multitude of factors behind that and lethargy from numerous windows without backing which would deflate anybody with ambition to win things, inflation of his own ego because of the plaudits he has received, many when looking at it from a detached unbiased perspective weren't actually deserved (like the champion of youth for example and also his inability to learn from his mistakes.

I also just think that tactically he hasn't got much about him, I have always thought that as a matter of fact but his ability to make players run through walls for him made up for it.

We need a change if we want to improve, regardless of the owners or Levy, end of.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Hard to see at the time though mate, that's the issue, think the CL run blinded many people, including myself, to the flaws that were apparent after the Burnley game, I kept believing he could turn it around, we had blips before and he managed it, like the heavy Newcastle defeat etc just figured we needed some new bodies in and all would be well again and the CL run was reaffirming that.

Sadly this season has shown me that the manager simply isn't up to it, I think there is a multitude of factors behind that and lethargy from numerous windows without backing which would deflate anybody with ambition to win things, inflation of his own ego because of the plaudits he has received, many when looking at it from a detached unbiased perspective weren't actually deserved (like the champion of youth for example and also his inability to learn from his mistakes.

I also just think that tactically he hasn't got much about him, I have always thought that as a matter of fact but his ability to make players run through walls for him made up for it.

We need a change if we want to improve, regardless of the owners or Levy, end of.
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I don't think levy will pull the trigger on poch certainly not at the moment and in all honesty not sure what it will take to fire him.
No question the team has gone backwards maybe it's an amalgamation of issues bad decisions from everyone , but out on the pitch this set of players are not up to it right now.
As for change of owners do you not think that levy will want to get a couple of seasons in of turnover before looking to sell for the highest price, after all that is their agenda all along minimal outlay maximum return we won't win a title with these in charge.
 
skywalker68 said:
I don't think levy will pull the trigger on poch certainly not at the moment and in all honesty not sure what it will take to fire him.
No question the team has gone backwards maybe it's an amalgamation of issues bad decisions from everyone , but out on the pitch this set of players are not up to it right now.
As for change of owners do you not think that levy will want to get a couple of seasons in of turnover before looking to sell for the highest price, after all that is their agenda all along minimal outlay maximum return we won't win a title with these in charge.
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Chickens have come home to roost is all. We were shit after Xmas last year and even the reference point of away wins "Fulham in January" was a last minute winner by Winksy (I'm a fan - go f*ck yourselves)

When CL qualification is done, as a consequence of either the current competition or the race for 4th, or both then the goose will be cooked.
 
OldBoy68 said:
Chickens have come home to roost is all. We were shit after Xmas last year and even the reference point of away wins "Fulham in January" was a last minute winner by Winksy (I'm a fan - go f*ck yourselves)

When CL qualification is done, as a consequence of either the current competition or the race for 4th, or both then the goose will be cooked.
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Well the new stadium heralded a triumphant achievement from the club and opened with much fanfare since then we have gone from a top four side and CL finalist to mixing it up with west ham and company, so yes chickens may have come home to roost and rather quickly as well.
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
Here's the thing though, many people believed that the reason we underperformed in the league last season was down to our lack of depth and the fact we hadn't signed any players for TWO ENTIRE WINDOWS and was the only team in any league to do so and I still think there is merit in that argument, it certainly, I believe, changed the attitude of the manager and some of the players.

I still think that it had a major impact on our form taking a nosedive, the lack of significant backing and preparation for the future in regards to contracts falls squarely on the owners and chairman, you just don't like hearing it because you think we are blessed to have ENIC and Levy can do no wrong.

People also felt that because we had made it to the CL final against all odds and that under Poch our performances since his appointment had been generally trending upwards, that Poch had prioritised the CL over the PL due to the lack of that depth in the squad and Poch deserved the backing this window to rebuild and go again because the PL results would improve again.

I would say, given the knowledge people had up to that point it was an easy mistake to make, unlike you Air, many people have fluctuating opinions when the circumstances require it, not all of us are so deeply embedded in our biases that we have to rigidly stick to one thought process, for example, the chairman and owners can do no wrong.

Now, as far as the now goes (here comes the critical thinking part, watch out!) It's clearly obvious the manager should be doing better with the squad he has and no amount of money that our owners would throw at him would fix the situation because he was given signings this window and he isn't even using them, we should be doing far better with the squad that we have, at least on par with the results from the first half of last season snd yet we aren't, that's down to the manager.

That has been proven now, beyond a shadow of a doubt, however, our chairman is now at fault for allowing the failure to continue, that's also obvious.

You have to understand, that opinions ARE allowed to change, that you ARE allowed to look at a situation critically and think something only for you to think something else after new evidence is brought to light, that's how you develop as a human being.

Difficult concept for someone who refuses to take their head out of their arse for more than 5 seconds because they would rather think like a member of a cult than a person with the ability to adapt to new information.
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Sadly for your lazy, blinkered binary profiling of my opinions (rich, given your above objections to my prior post); I don't believe ENIC to have done a perfect job of running the club. I simply think they have done a lot more right than wrong and our growth under their ownership is blatant testament to that. My thoughts regarding Pochetino aren't too dissimilar... You presumably won't have noticed, but I haven't been wholesale piling blame for our predicament on Poch either.

I'm reluctant to throw the towel in on the whole ENIC/Poch relationship as generally I believe in what we've been doing on both sides of the fence (although I have criticised both entities when I have seen fit over the last 5 years). Now call that 'romantic' if you must, but please spare me your crap about nuance, objectivity and so forth.

You talk about pig-headedness and the like, but you're the one making smug/gloating posts (and deploying childish giffs about dick-sucking in other threads) tagging a guy that has had very little interaction with you since the summer.

Regardless...

Sifting through all the indignation above, as per the part you say about "easy mistake to make", you - the guy that swore blind that we wouldn't buy ANYONE (let alone bring in 4 players!) - have partially conceded to my past reservations about gambling huge sums of money in the transfer market... For the sake of harmony and perhaps a swifter end to this debate, I won't dwell on that beyond this here comment.

In closing, it seems that much like the summer, I'm not the only one to find a lot of the criticism surrounding how the club is run to be ridden with double standards & contradiction, so I'll leave you to continue to grapple with some of those instead.....
 
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skywalker68 said:
Well the new stadium heralded a triumphant achievement from the club and opened with much fanfare since then we have gone from a top four side and CL finalist to mixing it up with west ham and company, so yes chickens may have come home to roost and rather quickly as well.
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Not sure that the stadium is in play here and I don't see the CL final as anything more than a smoke screen. A good cup run that we ultimately lost. OK that sounds harsh given the emotions of the quarters and the semis, but ultimately that's what it was.
 
OldBoy68 said:
Not sure that the stadium is in play here and I don't see the CL final as anything more than a smoke screen. A good cup run that we ultimately lost. OK that sounds harsh given the emotions of the quarters and the semis, but ultimately that's what it was.
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The stadium is and was a stunning statement of intent but not backed up on the field levy takes great credit for getting it over the line but the rest is a mess.
 
Airfixx said:
Not my words, but....
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Well quite.

I'm sure DL didn't envisage that, how should I put this in ManagementSpeak?, "taper", but the plans for the training ground and the stadium were laid many years ago. You don't just shift all of that because we could only beat Fulham away because of a last minute winner.

The club is strong in my view but the current team management is not.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Why would they not want to bring major trophies to the club? Surely if they want to raise the clubs profile and value, even if their main objective was based on monetary reasons they would still strive for such things?
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Well if they do want to bring major trophies to the club, they've abdjectly failed over the past 19 years, haven't they?
Surely nobody can argue against that.
If a major trophy came along, sure, they'd take it.
But they'd be damned not to take any kind of short term financial risk in doing so.
 
John Thomas said:
Well if they do want to bring major trophies to the club, they've abdjectly failed over the past 19 years, haven't they?
Surely nobody can argue against that.
If a major trophy came along, sure, they'd take it.
But they'd be damned not to take any kind of short term financial risk in doing so.
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That's true, but as long as you prioritise long term, consistent challenge over a short term sprint to get one trophy you give the coaching staff an excuse.

I do think it's the right idea, or at least I did until we saw the team fall off a cliff. Mild disappointment I can live with, am used to, but a team that is either devoid of effort (Newcastle), devoid of ideas (Everton), devoid of ability to execute (Liverpool) or all of the above (Brighton) makes me think of Gerry Francis.
 
skywalker68 said:
See your doing it again sniping away about fucking discourse any normal person would say conversation, but again you think your intellectually superior to others and yet on the few occasions we have engaged you have not put me away once shocking.
But in closing have a nice day chuckles.:pochbye:
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He’s a joke, mate - don’t even bother
 
John Thomas said:
...But they'd be damned not to take any kind of short term financial risk in doing so.
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Or expose an already over stretched team into competing for the Carabao cup. No issue with us putting out youth in the competition, but I find it laughable that Poch's metadata includes "youth development"
 
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