Levy / ENIC

[BernardMatthews]

nigel6305 - more in-depth reply.

I personally have no love at all for Mr levy. - fair enough. He’s not actually my favourite person either.

I truly believe that he only caress about money he can pocket and not about our clubs progression. -
has the club progressed? Since ENIC and Levy come in?
I think we were close to Chelsea, Everton, Newcastle as the clubs just outside the big 3. United and Liverpool were giants. Woolwich has not long won the league for the 11th time and were probably the 2nd best team after United.
Can you honestly say we’ve not progressed more than Everton and Newcastle? Chelsea were the first “millionaire plaything” club and yet from an infrastructure point of view we are now ahead of them.
Progression. I think he cares. If anything I think he has dedicated his life to it. Which in turn will bring him financial rewards.




He continues to lie about competing for trophies -
Does he? I’m not sure he does. I think he’s pretty transparent we can’t compete with some clubs and that their spending is unsustainable.

when we all know if u are not willing to pay the going rate in wages and transfers, that all our best players will eventually leave - Woolwich pay the best rates. Look at them.
I don’t want a club full of football mercenaries tbh.
Can we afford Messi? No. Neymar? No. Coutinho? No.
I know our best players will probably leave because there is always going to be a bigger club than us. Paying them more than we can really afford won’t necessarily change that IMHO.

and you will not sign any world class players that are needed to compete. -
are we competing right now?
Would you prefer we sold players like Kane as youngsters and buy older players?
I prefer not selling the likes of De Bruyne, Lukaku, Salah and Pogba.
We do things differently and I like that about my club.


They will instead go to the club's that show real ambition and who will pay them what other world class players and even some not world class command..
like PSG, City clubs with finances beyond our own. Madrid and Barca. Clubs with a prestige far above ours.
United - highest turnover in the world.
Wake up call. We can’t compete with those clubs without becoming a different club. Maybe you’d prefer that.
Hence my city / PSG comment.

.coys without levy...please as I hate always being the club that bottles the big games ..

That last sentence infuriates me. Always?? Are you really sure about that?
How many big games have we played this year in your opinion? Madrid? Chelsea away? Liverpool away? Dortmund away? Juve away?

Fuck off with that line. Media bollocks plain and simple. A tag line.

We all hate losing. But I think winning is a habit. To step over that very last line takes belief. We haven’t even got to that very last line either yet btw.
But we have still played plenty of “big games”.

And I’m not even sure blaming Levy for that is really fair. The players and management have far more to do with that 90 minute display.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

I think there are valid criticisms of Levy.

The Stratford move is a legitimate blunder, and although the new stadium partially atones for it, I cannot understand why he ever considered that move. The only excuse I can think of is that the local gov't was so daft, and the relationship had broken down so much, that Levy felt like Spurs were being expelled from Tottenham. But I have no evidence to back that possibility, so I cannot assume that was the case. On the basis of the evidence, he just plain fucked that up.

Also, Levy has turned Spurs into the example par excellence of modern football. The Cups are emphatically not a priority. We care about the Premier League, and the Champion's League, with all else being distractions. That does not fit particularly well with the views of fans, especially those who attach the importance to Cups that their historical significance previously gave them. That is a cultural difference that is essentially irreconcilable, and I can understand the frustration of fans on that basis. I get why Levy has the perspective he has, but that does not change the fact that fans can legitimately disagree on that point.

Criticisms that he doesn't "support the manager" or "spend" are arguments I have no time for, as I feel they have not got a basis in fact. We have less resources than the clubs we compete against (Woolwich, City, Man Utd, Chelsea, and Liverpool). As we are not run at a loss (which is the owner's prerogative), we're not going to spend like they do. Within that context though, spending 40 million on a training complex, possibly an even billion on a stadium, and redoing the wage structure to accommodate high-performing players cannot, I think, be considered a lack of support. It's not oligarch spending, but it is a massive amount of resources being given in support of the team.

Now, looking at where Spurs were when ENIC took over, and looking at Spurs today, in comparison with every other club in Europe, I have to say that ENIC and Levy have been both massively successful and major positives for the club. We were essentially level with the mid-pack of the Premier League. We are now a Champion's League regular and the only club in Europe that has not been bought by an oligarch or foreign government to make a successful transition to that level. Literally no other club has actually self-generated the growth and improvement to make that leap. Within that context, I cannot see any reason to push for new owners, or a new chairman. I can't see evidence of anyone who has done better.

However, I can understand the frustrations of those who have the criticisms I mentioned. I can't see much of a way for them to see satisfaction, but I can understand them.

 

[Joe Clash]

I think you mean every 2 decades .

Usual horseshit from the cardboard communist. We’ve won a trophy every decade since the war except this one and we still have a chance to do that. Only Utd can say the same. Our last trophy was 10 years ago - that’s a decade right? But don’t let that stop you posting utter crap for the enjoyment of your grinning acolytes. Look what the massive wit that is Fidel said? Every 2 decades he said. Hur, hur, hur. How extraordinarily amusing - even if it is complete cobblers.

Jesus. Who pissed on your turnips?

 

[OffTheBench]

Good point. It should, of course, read tapping her
Slipping her a length is also acceptable

Oh indeed. "Smashed her back doors in" would also suffice.

 

[mouse]

I think there are valid criticisms of Levy.

The Stratford move is a legitimate blunder, and although the new stadium partially atones for it, I cannot understand why he ever considered that move. The only excuse I can think of is that the local gov't was so daft, and the relationship had broken down so much, that Levy felt like Spurs were being expelled from Tottenham. But I have no evidence to back that possibility, so I cannot assume that was the case. On the basis of the evidence, he just plain fucked that up.

Also, Levy has turned Spurs into the example par excellence of modern football. The Cups are emphatically not a priority. We care about the Premier League, and the Champion's League, with all else being distractions. That does not fit particularly well with the views of fans, especially those who attach the importance to Cups that their historical significance previously gave them. That is a cultural difference that is essentially irreconcilable, and I can understand the frustration of fans on that basis. I get why Levy has the perspective he has, but that does not change the fact that fans can legitimately disagree on that point.

Criticisms that he doesn't "support the manager" or "spend" are arguments I have no time for, as I feel they have not got a basis in fact. We have less resources than the clubs we compete against (Woolwich, City, Man Utd, Chelsea, and Liverpool). As we are not run at a loss (which is the owner's prerogative), we're not going to spend like they do. Within that context though, spending 40 million on a training complex, possible an even billion on a stadium, and redoing the wage structure to accommodate high-performing players cannot, I think, be considered a lack of support. It's not oligarch spending, but it is a massive amount of resources being given in support of the team.

Now, looking at where Spurs were when ENIC took over, and looking at Spurs today, in comparison with every other club in Europe, I have to say that ENIC and Levy have been both massively successful and major positives for the club. We were essentially level with the mid-pack of the Premier League. We are now a Champion's League regular and the only club in Europe that has not been bought by an oligarch or foreign government to make a successful transition to that level. Literally no other club has actually self-generated the growth and improvement to make that leap. Within that context, I cannot see any reason to push for new owners, or a new chairman. I can't see evidence of anyone who has done better.

However, I can understand the frustrations of those who have the criticisms I mentioned. I can't see much of a way for them to see satisfaction, but I can understand them.

This is such a brilliantly worded response that it almost justifies the fact that the position needs to clarified on here at least three times a day.

 

[scott]

I think there are valid criticisms of Levy.

The Stratford move is a legitimate blunder, and although the new stadium partially atones for it, I cannot understand why he ever considered that move. The only excuse I can think of is that the local gov't was so daft, and the relationship had broken down so much, that Levy felt like Spurs were being expelled from Tottenham. But I have no evidence to back that possibility, so I cannot assume that was the case. On the basis of the evidence, he just plain fucked that up.

Also, Levy has turned Spurs into the example par excellence of modern football. The Cups are emphatically not a priority. We care about the Premier League, and the Champion's League, with all else being distractions. That does not fit particularly well with the views of fans, especially those who attach the importance to Cups that their historical significance previously gave them. That is a cultural difference that is essentially irreconcilable, and I can understand the frustration of fans on that basis. I get why Levy has the perspective he has, but that does not change the fact that fans can legitimately disagree on that point.

Criticisms that he doesn't "support the manager" or "spend" are arguments I have no time for, as I feel they have not got a basis in fact. We have less resources than the clubs we compete against (Woolwich, City, Man Utd, Chelsea, and Liverpool). As we are not run at a loss (which is the owner's prerogative), we're not going to spend like they do. Within that context though, spending 40 million on a training complex, possible an even billion on a stadium, and redoing the wage structure to accommodate high-performing players cannot, I think, be considered a lack of support. It's not oligarch spending, but it is a massive amount of resources being given in support of the team.

Now, looking at where Spurs were when ENIC took over, and looking at Spurs today, in comparison with every other club in Europe, I have to say that ENIC and Levy have been both massively successful and major positives for the club. We were essentially level with the mid-pack of the Premier League. We are now a Champion's League regular and the only club in Europe that has not been bought by an oligarch or foreign government to make a successful transition to that level. Literally no other club has actually self-generated the growth and improvement to make that leap. Within that context, I cannot see any reason to push for new owners, or a new chairman. I can't see evidence of anyone who has done better.

However, I can understand the frustrations of those who have the criticisms I mentioned. I can't see much of a way for them to see satisfaction, but I can understand them.

Just my opinion but I don't think poch is too fussed about winning 1 of the 2 domestic cups either. Just like most managers these days. Modern bloody football!

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Just my opinion but I don't think poch is too fussed about winning 1 of the 2 domestic cups either. Just like most managers these days. Modern bloody football!

I think you're probably right. He cares about the League, and Europe, and definitely isn't too fussed about the domestic Cups. I don't think the squad really shares that opinion, but Levy and Pochettino definitely agree on that point.

 

[Joe Clash]

Just my opinion but I don't think poch is too fussed about winning 1 of the 2 domestic cups either. Just like most managers these days. Modern bloody football!

No, he looked really happy to lose the semi-final.

 

[Fidel Castro]

Usual horseshit from the cardboard communist. We’ve won a trophy every decade since the war except this one and we still have a chance to do that. Only Utd can say the same. Our last trophy was 10 years ago - that’s a decade right? But don’t let that stop you posting utter crap for the enjoyment of your grinning acolytes. Look what the massive wit that is Fidel said? Every 2 decades he said. Hur, hur, hur. How extraordinarily amusing - even if it is complete cobblers.

Jesus. Who pissed on your turnips?

Edited for 3rd Summer of Love


1 trophy in 19 years is pretty inexcusable.

 

[Colonel_K]

Thank you Citizen Smith , usual rambling Malcom X one up the Khyber .
1 trophy in 19 years is pretty inexcusable. Sit and eat with regime collaborators who dine on continual diatribe excuses, sold out ?
Animal farm ?

Feel sorry for all those clubs that have 0 trophies in the last 20 years. Breaking down Cup wins in that time will see that they’ve been dominated with the likes of Utd, Woolwich, Chavs. More recently City.

 

[Joe Clash]

Thank you Citizen Smith , usual rambling Malcom X one up the Khyber .
1 trophy in 19 years is pretty inexcusable. Sit and eat with regime collaborators who dine on continual diatribe excuses, sold out ?
Animal farm ?

I’m no collaborator comrade, I just don’t like to see Spurs’ achievements misrepresented by other Spurs fans. Anyway, the sun is out, fun and beers await, and nothing could put me in a bad mood this evening. Have an excellent weekend Fidel - and keep that flag flying over the farm. Hairy head good, bald head bad. Cheers!


Edited for Summer fun.

 

[Fidel Castro]

I’m no collaborator comrade, I just don’t like to see Spurs’ achievements misrepresented by other Spurs fans. Anyway, the sun is out, fun and beers await, and nothing could put me in a bad mood this evening. Have an excellent weekend Fidel - and keep that flag flying over the farm. Hairy head good, bald head bad. Cheers!


P.S. If my post was a ramble... enough said though. I know English isn’t your first language.

Cheers.
Your right the world looks wonderful as the sun rays sparkle over our little part of Suffolk
Blyburgh Belly Pork , Adams IPA awaits and have a good evening
yourself

 

[Joe Clash]

Cheers.
Your right the world looks wonderful as the sun rays sparkle over our little part of Suffolk
Blyburgh Belly Pork , Adams IPA awaits and have a good evening
yourself

Thanks. I edited the bit about your first language. Obviously I was referring to Castro, not you, although it can’t be easy posting on a phone while ploughing a lonely furrow behind a massive horse, but what would I know?

 

[Fidel Castro]

Thanks. I edited the bit about your first language. Obviously I was referring to Castro, not you, although it can’t be easy posting on a phone while ploughing a lonely furrow behind a massive horse, but what would I know?

Likewise l have edited
I do occasionally post from my tractor but sadly no horses .

 

[LeeMcl]

Edited for 3rd Summer of Love


1 trophy in 19 years is pretty inexcusable.

I think it frustrating rather than inexcusable. At the end of the day we have no devine rights to win anything. We have been close and at least we have had a better past 13 years than the 13 before that (or 1987/88 - Jesus how shit was that year etc etc )


Also I might be forgetting something in the middle but pretty sure Spurs once went 40 years without an FA Cup, And I think it 30 years between an FA Cup win and our next trophy, the League title. Ok it was a while ago, but history does count. We were not always winning stuff.

Trophies make memories. But so does losing at Swindon and 6-0 at Sheffield United. On balance there is comfort in being decent in the league, while we await the next cup. Which will come.

 

[Fidel Castro]

I think it frustrating rather than inexcusable. At the end of the day we have no devine rights to win anything. We have been close and at least we have had a better past 13 years than the 13 before that (or 1987/88 - Jesus how shit was that year etc etc )


Also I might be forgetting something in the middle but pretty sure Spurs once went 40 years without an FA Cup, And I think it 30 years between an FA Cup win and our next trophy, the League title. Ok it was a while ago, but history does count. We were not always winning stuff.

Trophies make memories. But so does losing at Swindon and 6-0 at Sheffield United. On balance there is comfort in being decent in the league, while we await the next cup. Which will come.

90's 2 trophies
80s 3
70s 3
60s 5
50s 1
I take your point and live in hope.

 

[spursmalc]

I have been as disappointed as everyone regarding not winning a trophy and criticised Managers over the past 10 years who have played weak teams in the cups including Europa and seen us fail. However these last 2 seasons we have got to the F A Cup semi final and played a strong team but lost because we were unlucky/beaten by a top team. We did not lose because we did not take the cup seriously. I therefore no longer think we cannot win a trophy and think at last we have a strong enough squad to get through against all but the other top 6 clubs. Draw Woolwich in an early round, I would expect a strong team, draw Newport no but must have cover on bench.
We need to stop having a bad start to each season and having to play catch up which would allow a bit of capacity to rest players against lower teams in premiership when big cup games are due.

 

[nigel6305]

nigel6305 - more in-depth reply.

I personally have no love at all for Mr levy. - fair enough. He’s not actually my favourite person either.

I truly believe that he only caress about money he can pocket and not about our clubs progression. -
has the club progressed? Since ENIC and Levy come in?
I think we were close to Chelsea, Everton, Newcastle as the clubs just outside the big 3. United and Liverpool were giants. Woolwich has not long won the league for the 11th time and were probably the 2nd best team after United.
Can you honestly say we’ve not progressed more than Everton and Newcastle? Chelsea were the first “millionaire plaything” club and yet from an infrastructure point of view we are now ahead of them.
Progression. I think he cares. If anything I think he has dedicated his life to it. Which in turn will bring him financial rewards.




He continues to lie about competing for trophies -
Does he? I’m not sure he does. I think he’s pretty transparent we can’t compete with some clubs and that their spending is unsustainable.

when we all know if u are not willing to pay the going rate in wages and transfers, that all our best players will eventually leave - Woolwich pay the best rates. Look at them.
I don’t want a club full of football mercenaries tbh.
Can we afford Messi? No. Neymar? No. Coutinho? No.
I know our best players will probably leave because there is always going to be a bigger club than us. Paying them more than we can really afford won’t necessarily change that IMHO.

and you will not sign any world class players that are needed to compete. -
are we competing right now?
Would you prefer we sold players like Kane as youngsters and buy older players?
I prefer not selling the likes of De Bruyne, Lukaku, Salah and Pogba.
We do things differently and I like that about my club.


They will instead go to the club's that show real ambition and who will pay them what other world class players and even some not world class command..
like PSG, City clubs with finances beyond our own. Madrid and Barca. Clubs with a prestige far above ours.
United - highest turnover in the world.
Wake up call. We can’t compete with those clubs without becoming a different club. Maybe you’d prefer that.
Hence my city / PSG comment.

.coys without levy...please as I hate always being the club that bottles the big games ..

That last sentence infuriates me. Always?? Are you really sure about that?
How many big games have we played this year in your opinion? Madrid? Chelsea away? Liverpool away? Dortmund away? Juve away?

Fuck off with that line. Media bollocks plain and simple. A tag line.

We all hate losing. But I think winning is a habit. To step over that very last line takes belief. We haven’t even got to that very last line either yet btw.
But we have still played plenty of “big games”.

And I’m not even sure blaming Levy for that is really fair. The players and management have far more to do with that 90 minute display.

I totally respect your opinion mate. I'm not here to have all us spurs fans getting irritated by each other. I was very frustrated, due to what I see as our chairman not being honest. He says he wants to win trophies but he doesn't act like that. You say we cannot compete with these clubs, then the chairman knows this and he therefore knows we will not win the league or champs league against these clubs. I truly believe a big London club like us should be able to compete. No we are not Barcelona etc...but athletic Madrid compete and they pay the going rate..theyy are not bigger than us...

 

[Juicy Sushi]

I totally respect your opinion mate. I'm not here to have all us spurs fans getting irritated by each other. I was very frustrated, due to what I see as our chairman not being honest. He says he wants to win trophies but he doesn't act like that. You say we cannot compete with these clubs, then the chairman knows this and he therefore knows we will not win the league or champs league against these clubs. I truly believe a big London club like us should be able to compete. No we are not Barcelona etc...but athletic Madrid compete and they pay the going rate..theyy are not bigger than us...

Atletico Madrid also notoriously don't pay their taxes, violate child trafficking laws, and are currently riding a boatload of Chinese money.

I rather think Spurs couldn't get away with the first two, and ENIC won't do the third choice.

 

[BernardMatthews]

I totally respect your opinion mate. I'm not here to have all us spurs fans getting irritated by each other. I was very frustrated, due to what I see as our chairman not being honest. He says he wants to win trophies but he doesn't act like that. You say we cannot compete with these clubs, then the chairman knows this and he therefore knows we will not win the league or champs league against these clubs. I truly believe a big London club like us should be able to compete. No we are not Barcelona etc...but athletic Madrid compete and they pay the going rate..theyy are not bigger than us...

Fair enough.

Personally our efforts in Europe while in the EL frustrated me. Maybe now with CL football as a reward that trophy will be taken more seriously.
I loved seeing Simeone so animated.

We will never know if had we really tried to win that competition in the past few years our players (and management) would be a bit better equipped for the big one off cup games.
As I said before I think winning is a habit and maybe right now that is our Achilles heel as we seem almost happy to lose in some cups - players and even fans for that matter.

We could have it a lot worse right now. Just look down the road.

Just need to keep believing in this team and dare I say “process”.