Jan Vertonghen

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I was surprised when he went back on but he had just walked 1/4 way round the pitch which I'm sure would constitute part of the assessment.
It was good that the ref stopped play to come and check and you would like to think that the club staff were sure that he was ok to continue at that time. The fact he lasted 30 seconds shows otherwise and perhaps just goes to demonstrate that whatever the tests are, when you are time critical (to get a player back on the pitch) then you are not allowed to take the time to assess fully - some symptoms don't show immediately or even a few minutes after the incident.
When his legs went was distressing to watch.
The main thing is he came and off and if last nights reports are correct then he is doing well.
 
SpurFromOz said:
Yep.

By the letter protocol was correct ( as above post 3066 )..
Did you look sick as f...k ? Yes.
Hope he's ok, but to look for blame here is a stretch. He was allowed and WANTED to continue. It then reached a point where he knew he couldn't as did the staff.

Get better Jan...
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I don't think it should ever be up to the player to make the decision and there is no evidence to suggest there was. Our medical team followed and carried out the protocol for concussion (which having heard a doctor interviewed on the radio this morning is confirmed as the player answering questions).

I also know for a fact that you can show zero signs of a concussion after a bang on the head, other than the pain of being hit someone can be absolutely fine but 48 hrs then feel sick or dizy etc..

The issue is perhaps the protocol and the tests which are done. Maybe if a player has taken a bang to the head he's not allowed to play on???

I've heard people suggest that there should be a rolling sub, so a player goes on to replace the player that's taken a blow to the head. The idea here is that the tests can be over a longer period and also, as with Vertonghen last night, if the effects of a concussion are delayed then he doesn't get to go back on. But this does nothing to stop if that player went back on after say 10mins only against for the symptoms to appear (as they can for up to a few DAYS after a knock).
 
If player welfare is truly the goal, a temporary sub situation must be created in the rules. The limited substitutions, and the difficulty of playing a man down in a huge game, causes the team to accept the player's opinion that he can continue. Great athletes always think they can play on - it's in their DNA. That's part of the mindset that makes them great.
 
ArmadilloSackRace said:
I find it weird that everyone is assuming that any symptoms are down to concussion, rather than because of the loss of blood. Every time I've had a significant amount of blood taken I've had a delayed feeling of nausea and feel like I'm going to collapse. It looked exactly like that
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This - and the fact that he had suffered a trauma injury (a cut to the nose, which MAY be broken) means that pain and loss of blood will have caused him to struggle when he ran onto the pitch. His slow walk around the edge will not have caused the problems that even a short running burst will have done. It's all been way too over played, so many people suddenly became experts in head trauma and neurological problems last night. It's over - nothing to see here.
 
Guido said:
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So all those saying we were wrong to let him make the choice have been shown to be wrong and that the club was right?

No concussion, the player was fully alert enough to make a call and our medical teams diagnosis was right? I wonder if the daily rags who have been battering the club today will issue an apology for slandering us and muddying our medical staffs name? Na I didn't think so
 
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Atomic knob said:
If player welfare is truly the goal, a temporary sub situation must be created in the rules. The limited substitutions, and the difficulty of playing a man down in a huge game, causes the team to accept the player's opinion that he can continue. Great athletes always think they can play on - it's in their DNA. That's part of the mindset that makes them great.
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You are making the assumption that the medical team were overruled by Vertonghen, from what has been communicated the medical team made the decision and only them (Not Poch & not Vertonghen).

With regards to the temporary sub use, this could be a good idea BUT I truly think that perhaps of a player has taken a blow to the head then perhaps he should just be substituted because waiting 10mins still might not detect a concussion has occurred, in some cases it may take as long as 48hrs for symptoms.
 
"Jan Vertonghen has undergone further assessment today (Wednesday 1 May) after sustaining a head injury in last night's Champions League semi-final first leg against Ajax. He also suffered a small cut to his nose that was bleeding heavily.

The Belgium defender was assessed on the pitch yesterday immediately after the incident with our medical team strictly following Football Association concussion guidelines.

Following testing he was judged to be alert and answered all questions correctly and lucidly, deeming him fit to return to the field of play.

All available video footage was relayed to our on-pitch medical team and they were able to confirm that he had suffered no loss of consciousness.

Jan was immediately withdrawn as a result of the player informing medical staff that symptoms were developing suddenly and that he no longer felt stable standing up.

Tests today have been clear and testing will continue for the next few days. Additionally, as is standard Club policy with certain injuries, we shall also be seeking independent advice and Jan is due to see a neurologist, who specialises in elite athletes, tomorrow. The player has reported no ill-effects today".
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Probably saw 3 screens and decided to type on the middle one such was his dizziness.

He got a whack on the conk, felt groggy and it turned his stomach. No more or less involved with this one, the club is getting some harsh treatment unnecessarily from the media yet again.
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I do think the concussion protocols should be as bombproof as they should be and questions have been raised about those that are employed in football aren't sufficient to say compared to Rugby. Also, their has been woeful neglect by the governing bodies to fund and accelerate the researching into dementia from heading the ball.

But having Paul Jiggings from The Sun or John Cwoss tweeting as though they are neurologists or fucking brain surgeons doesn't exactly help the debate.
 
Guido said:
You are making the assumption that the medical team were overruled by Vertonghen, from what has been communicated the medical team made the decision and only them (Not Poch & not Vertonghen).

With regards to the temporary sub use, this could be a good idea BUT I truly think that perhaps of a player has taken a blow to the head then perhaps he should just be substituted because waiting 10mins still might not detect a concussion has occurred, in some cases it may take as long as 48hrs for symptoms.
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Fair points. I just think that playing a man short pressures the decision to be made too quickly. Puts the team at a disadvantage when they are just trying to care for their player. And mandating a substitution anytime a player takes any kind of hit to the melon when they only have three subs total is problematic. Then, what do you do if somebody takes a knock after your 3 subs have been made? I might be overthinking this, but the newspapers seem willing to investigate physios over it, so.....
 
Atomic knob said:
Fair points. I just think that playing a man short pressures the decision to be made too quickly. Puts the team at a disadvantage when they are just trying to care for their player. And mandating a substitution anytime a player takes any kind of hit to the melon when they only have three subs total is problematic. Then, what do you do if somebody takes a knock after your 3 subs have been made? I might be overthinking this, but the newspapers seem willing to investigate physios over it, so.....
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No, you have a very valid point but I think the pressure on the medical team to make a decision based on time is maybe overplayed, because if a player needs treatment then he gets it, even more so when its a head injury. Vertonghen was being assessed and treated for well over 5mins, there was no hurry up that I could see, in fact, the ref went over to even confirm with the medics. If there is a head injury then the game is stopped and there isn't the desire to get on with the game and therefore get the player off the pitch so the game can continue.
 
Guido said:
No, you have a very valid point but I think the pressure on the medical team to make a decision based on time is maybe overplayed, because if a player needs treatment then he gets it, even more so when its a head injury. Vertonghen was being assessed and treated for well over 5mins, there was no hurry up that I could see, in fact, the ref went over to even confirm with the medics. If there is a head injury then the game is stopped and there isn't the desire to get on with the game and therefore get the player off the pitch so the game can continue.
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Some doctor on Talkshite yesterday saying that the acid test was Jan being able to change his shorts
lol
 
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