Individual regression

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Our attacking players Kane, Dele, Son and Eriksen are as good as any in the country .

Our centre defenders Toby, Jan, Sanchez likewise

Lloris despite some costly errors is as good as most.

Winks continues to improve.

With 3 at the back that’s a solid 9 players. I’m not sure any of those players have regressed.

Where we fall short is at full back ( though ours are no worse that Woolwich’s or United’s or Chelsea’s ) , and especially in centre midfield where I’m sorry but Sissoko is no Dembele or prime Wanyama and that gap is still there . Then our back up players are just not good enough. And of course 2 of our core players will leave in the summer.

I think Poch really screwed up with his team selection on Saturday and suddenly this season he’s Mr. Tinker man. He never used to do this before.

Having said that we may have say 85m come in from the sales of Alderweireld and Eriksen. To replace players like that would involve spending double that sum . Unfortunately that’s never going to happen. Let alone addressing the other areas that need fixing.
 

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I merely answered sammyspurs sammyspurs question. "Players that raised their game, and then regressed", "Players that have simply not developed further" and "players that are hot and cold and lack consistency" are the responsibility of the manager and am sure all agree..

And as for need a change you are asking: The club has 3 main components, these are the board, management field level and the players. Few fans are blaming stadium saga which is BS because we were at Wembley last season and did well. On the evidence of the results and performances, there is a need for a change to rectify and improve. I am THFC fan and not qualified or expert decision maker.
That didn't answer my question though, did it?

I am a firm believer that the biggest single negative influence on the seasons performance has been the detrimental effect of the club's over commitment to the world cup.
It's disruptive fall out extends to injuries, loss of form and fatigue.
 
I think what we've seen this season is several things come together at once that have contributed to the most difficult season since Poch took over.

We've had lots of injuries, fatigue from the World cup, lack of investment and playing at Wembley for what will be almost the enitre season, so some type of regression could be expected I guess - any club would struggle with that so it's not surprising.

The mentality issue may or may not be linked to that - obviously if you are missing key players through injury and suffering from fatigue it's going to be hard to play consistenly at a high level and be able to focus 100%

In some cases we show great mentality in forcing late winners and grinding out results but at other times we look abject and have constantly failed to deliver in key games with the pressure on. In order to go to the next level we need Poch to be ruthless in weeding out those who are not up to it mentally and ability wise, while investing in the right type of player to help us achieve that.

I'm not sure how easy that will be though.
 
Is Poch partly to blame for us not having a big enough or strong enough squad? A few journalists have said that he has had money to spend. Admittedly we might not be able to afford the first choice targets, but is he too fussy when it comes to the next tier of players? Why we didn't go for Trielmans is baffling.
If a person wants to buy a new car unless he is fantastically rich then he sets out his priorities whether they are fast car or family car etc. He may not be able to afford the best or what he wants but he settles on the best that he can afford. The only other option is to keep the existing car but that only delays the fact that he needs a new car.
Same with the transfer market, I simply do not believe there is nobody better than some of the players in our squad within our budget. The proof is in recent results. Buying replacements to cover Dembele, Llorente, Vorm are a must. Toby and Eriksen will go IF an offer comes in from a top team. Neither will go to just any team and will run their contract down. Now we must have options ready. Other players probably need replacing BUT as stated we cannot do everything in the same window but had we bought players earlier we could have. GKN and Janssen should go without replacement as they are not really in the squad.
Now none of this matters until the window opens and we need to concentrate on winning matches.
 
Bit early for this thread no?

If your going to judge the performance of a player as a whole at least wait until the end of the season.

(Unless of course they've been shockingly bad/good)
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
We've played a different system this year to one we've ever played consistently in the past. I genuinely think it could be as as simple as that.

Because we haven't really got the players to play that diamond successfully, it puts pressure on our defence when we are without a proper defensive screen. We don't really have full backs that make the pitch wide enough so we're either very narrow which is easier to defend against, or we are lopsided by focusing on one area (usually Trippier to knock it in the box).

Have defenders regressed? Or are they having more work to do due to the lack of true quality midfield?

This season for me needs to just be written off. Get into the top four. Go as far as we can in the CL and move on from it as it's been a fucking nightmare from start to finish. No signings, stadium delay, no true home stadium for 8 months of it. No signings in January, in for the title one week, clinging into a top four spot the following week etc.
Yet we still persist with it (and revert back to it even when we do switch it up successfully)...

Does my nut in.

We've gone from 3CBs and 2 peak destroyers to 2CBs and Winks. Hmmmm.... I wonder why we're not as solid defensively. :rolleyes:
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
If a person wants to buy a new car unless he is fantastically rich then he sets out his priorities whether they are fast car or family car etc. He may not be able to afford the best or what he wants but he settles on the best that he can afford. The only other option is to keep the existing car but that only delays the fact that he needs a new car.
Same with the transfer market, I simply do not believe there is nobody better than some of the players in our squad within our budget. The proof is in recent results. Buying replacements to cover Dembele, Llorente, Vorm are a must. Toby and Eriksen will go IF an offer comes in from a top team. Neither will go to just any team and will run their contract down. Now we must have options ready. Other players probably need replacing BUT as stated we cannot do everything in the same window but had we bought players earlier we could have. GKN and Janssen should go without replacement as they are not really in the squad.
Now none of this matters until the window opens and we need to concentrate on winning matches.
A reasonable outlook if that indeed is one's individual stance.

Problem we have here is somehow many of our fanbase want to exonerate Poch from any responsibility and lay it all on the doorstep of Levy under the banner "he refused to spend". That's bullshit.
 

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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
Yet we still persist with it (and revert back to it even when we do switch it up successfully)...

Does my nut in.

We've gone from 3CBs and 2 peak destroyers to 2CBs and Winks. Hmmmm.... I wonder why we're not as solid defensively. :rolleyes:
Winks will be an excellent deep lying playmaker.

But he needs a destroyer next to him or behind him. Simple as that.
 
If anything our players have had billy big bollocks syndrome after a big European result...
Agree with this 100%, the way they looked on saturday was so casual and the chances being missed to bury them first half was criminal. Looked like they thought all they had to do was turn up and score another couple second half-what a costly shitshow that second could prove to be.
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
Winks will be an excellent deep lying playmaker.

But he needs a destroyer next to him or behind him. Simple as that.
Which = NO diamond.

Bring it the fuck on.

(Wasn't a knock on Winks... He's doing well.)
 
That didn't answer my question though, did it?

I am a firm believer that the biggest single negative influence on the seasons performance has been the detrimental effect of the club's over commitment to the world cup.
It's disruptive fall out extends to injuries, loss of form and fatigue.
No I don't want manager change, club should back the manager financially or we are doomed. We have players not good enough for the shirt and should be replaced.

Poch genuinely is commited to the club, he wants to succeed, he wants to win trophies. He is top guy let down by the guys above.

World cup commitment is an excuse mate, top PL and European clubs had players in the WC.
 
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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
Which = NO diamond.

Bring it the fuck on.

(Wasn't a knock on Winks... He's doing well.)
Why not?

New DM
New CM - Winks
Dele
Is a perfectly fine diamond. You'd have someone who can screen a defence, take the ball under pressure, turn and move it forward (Berge) and you'd have the runner next to Winks who would be the runner in the midfield (Diawara) whilst Dele is at the tip creating shit.
 
It's surreal talking of player regression when 3 weeks ago it was barely an issue.

I hear so much glowing praise about Pochettino's man management skills and player development so what we are saying is that the players aren't responding or that he shouldn't be picking them.

It all goes back to CONFIDENCE and being challenged though. And a World Cup hangover that begged for incoming transfers.

And yet still and we will never knoe but beat Burnley and this would be flipped.

Strewth.
 
Winks will be an excellent deep lying playmaker.

But he needs a destroyer next to him or behind him. Simple as that.
I hope Winks will be an excellent deep lying playmaker.
BUT we have so many of those "nearly" and we have to realize for one reason or another it aint happening and ask why?! Examples are plenty: Mason, Huddlestone, Onoma, afro messy, CCV, Carrol... so many ... can't remember the names.
No I haven't forgotten Hary Kane.
 

Totti

Chess extraordinaire
I hope Winks will be an excellent deep lying playmaker.
BUT we have so many of those "nearly" and we have to realize for one reason or another it aint happening and ask why?! Examples are plenty: Mason, Huddlestone, Onoma, afro messy, Carrol... so many ... can't remember the names.
No I haven't forgotten Hary Kane.
To be fair, Winks has been entirely developed by Pochettino, whereas none of the others were. Has the right attitude shown improvement to his game year on year and is still young. Some have questioned Edwards' attitude and there are loads of rumours surrounding Onomah and the reason he hasn't pushed on for us.

Even if he doesn't become an excellent one, he's saved us a fair bit of money by providing us with good depth in his position. I wouldn't be against buying a player who can similarly do his job to provide him with competition (but also able to play with him), like Lobotka from Celta Vigo (Who may actually get relegated this season too)
 
Bit early for this thread no?

If your going to judge the performance of a player as a whole at least wait until the end of the season.

(Unless of course they've been shockingly bad/good)
What so you mean if someone is crap for 30 games, and plays well for the last 8, theyve had a good season
 

Airfixx

Take your miserable whining and fuck off.
Cos so far it's proved to be shit.

New DM
New CM - Winks
Dele
Is a perfectly fine diamond. You'd have someone who can screen a defence, take the ball under pressure, turn and move it forward (Berge) and you'd have the runner next to Winks who would be the runner in the midfield (Diawara) whilst Dele is at the tip creating shit.
Weren't you hell-bent on 433 last summer?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the wisdom in clinging to a system that has yet to show an up-side?

I could understand it if we had 2 strikers that we are desperate to play together (a la Suarez/Sturridge), but we're seemingly all the more blunt in this shitty system nor do we seem to have a numerical advantage in attack.
 
I think the diamond is there for two reasons. 1) to get Harry and son up top and 2)bulk up the lightweight midfield.

Full backs aren't good enough and neither are the misfimid options. Before when out front players weren't firing dembele walker and rose would steady the ship and use pure power to get us through.

Now we have Sissoko who is great but his nowhere near as good on the ball as dembele and the full backs aren't anywhere near what they were a couple of years ago . Add that to sheer tiredness and a stale feel about the squad and this bad run feels a billion times worse.

In a 4231 dembele would hold the ball up and get us going. Winks can sort of do that but with wanyama losing all form and dier going from injury to injury we imo can't play Sissoko in there as he would struggle with the ball retention and isn't a pure destroyer or holder like wanyama or dier. Hence why I don't think Poch is going with the two .

I'd actually like to see us play Sissoko at right wing back and hopefully winks and a fit again dier behind eriksen or dele.
 

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Totti

Chess extraordinaire
Cos so far it's proved to be shit.



Weren't you hell-bent on 433 last summer?

I'm sorry, I just don't see the wisdom in clinging to a system that has yet to show an up-side?

I could understand it if we had 2 strikers that we are desperate to play together (a la Suarez/Sturridge), but we're seemingly all the more blunt in this shitty system nor do we seem to have a numerical advantage in attack.
Yes, buts it's clear despite having the more suited players for it, Poch isn't going to play it. So pointless banging that drum.

The diamond formation is fine but it only works when it has the right players for it. Which we don't have.

I'd be happy with a variation of either with players who are able to switch between the two mid game.

4231 is done though. We will barely play that ever again.
 
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