You are currently browsing our forum as a guest. Registration only takes a minute and removes most of the adverts - Sign up here

Individual regression

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by sammyspurs, 10 Mar 2019.

  1. sammyspurs

    Joined:
    15 Apr 2012
    Messages:
    32,679
    Reputation:
    47,431
    A lot is made of the Sissoko fairytale, and a few years ago, we all hailed the emergence of the average player really stepping up into established top 3 material.

    But that was a while ago, and the success stories are few and far between today.
    Players that raised their game, and then regressed:
    Dier, Trippier, Wanyama, Lamela, Rose, Sanchez, Davies

    Players that have simply not developed further:
    Aurier, KWP, Moura, Lloris

    Players that are hot and cold and lack consistency
    Dele, Eriksen

    So where have all the success stories gone?
    Whats happening to our players?
    Whos responsible?
     
    • Like x 3
  2. FightingIllini

    Joined:
    1 Sep 2014
    Messages:
    1,360
    Reputation:
    2,022
    We're sitting 3rd in the league, on pace for a high 70's point total, and in the QF of the Champions League.

    What's happening to our players is that they're excelling, as they've done for years.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Agree x 2
    • Funny x 2
  3. Incomplete_usernam

    Joined:
    19 Aug 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Reputation:
    1,269
    3rd in the league (for now) QF of the champions league (for now) what will you say if we finish 5th and get knocked out in the next round of the CL? (which if we keep playing like we are in the PL is a very realistic proposition.)
     
    • Agree x 8
  4. Bryan

    Joined:
    20 Feb 2019
    Messages:
    160
    Reputation:
    335
    We've been more than the sum of our parts for ages, this is why a couple of injuries or a couple of players falling out of form hurts us badly.

    We'll be fine this season but the squad really does need some work in the summer.
     
    • Agree x 4
  5. Spursdem

    Suspended

    Joined:
    10 Aug 2016
    Messages:
    11,638
    Reputation:
    20,566
    If you're just going to caveat every achievement as ''for now'', what's the fucking point discussing anything?
     
    • Agree x 3
  6. Park Lane Mark Twain

    Joined:
    1 Sep 2016
    Messages:
    5,570
    Reputation:
    11,583
    #6 Park Lane Mark Twain, 10 Mar 2019
    Last edited: 10 Mar 2019
    The issue I think is when looking at our first XI in particular and the quality we would have to sign to enhance it, it was not within our financial means.

    Are the players you've highlighted as ones who have regressed become comfortable? Are they going through the motions? A fair few have had reasonable spells on the sidelines and/ or no preseason has that burnt them out a little? The players have 2 weeks of being at e club with no football, 3 weeks until their next league match. I'd give them a little time away from the repetition of it all. Give them a 4-5 days away from the club to switch off, reflect whatever they need to do. It hasn't dropped our way over the last month. In the league anything that could go wrong has. I don't want them playing with fear I want them playing with passion and pride not just effort. They have the talent, they just haven't managed the last few league games as well as they could have.

    Personally I think the cohesion of the team hasn't been the same since we lost our width along with Dembele's legs going. That along with no home advantage has made the club take a step back unfortunately yet in a weird sense we've also made steps forward even if people don't see that on the surface of it all. We now go into every game bar one or two expecting to win. That from where we were 2-3 seasons ago is remarkable.

    Dier was best as a defender, although I honestly don't mind him as a midfielder, Trippier was backup, Wanyama's knees hit the skids, Lamela has always been stop/ start since he put a Spurs shirt on with his best performances being in the Europa League, Rose I like but his mental health issues are well documented and he's also missed 48 games due to injury since 2917. Sanchez has great natural ability but has always needed to use his loaf more, ever since last season he's always had a ricket in him but should develop in time, Davies I see no regression in, he's a steady, realible LB who does what he does with little error in him.

    Aurier hasn't shown enough intelligence with his dribbling for me and that's a very big let down, KWP can we ever say he was good enough to say we have seen genuine regression? I don't think we can he hasn't played enough games to say he's regressed. Lucas you can see he has quality but he seems too lightweight to make the most of when he gets past his man, he always lets them back in after doing the hard stuff & Hugo has dropped a few clangers but he isn't as bad as people think compared to what he was before. He's always been a good shot stopper but shits himself with the ball at his feet. Maybe he's aware of his mistakes, which makes him make even more etc.

    I think Poch knows exactly the type of player he wants but there isn't a lot out there to choose from. Who really does a similar or better job that Dembele worldwide we could get? The same regarding Walker. As mentioned Rose has missed 48 games with injury since 2017 and shows glimpses of what he's got.

    We have good quality in the squad but injuries, a lack of form, key players in positions like RB & CM we haven't been able to replace etc have left us with holes in them team. It really would be a travesty is this squad don't get top 4 after all they have done for the club over recent seasons, I sincerely hope they find it in them to believe in themselves again. If they get the results they should get over the next 8 games they'd have redeemed a sloppy month of football for the club.

    All in all I don't think there's been too much regression, I just think the team feels a little flat at the moment & the quality we have signed to replace important cogs has not been of equal quality which has disjointed our style of play. I don't think there is a lot of regression, injust think a little adrenaline is lacking as well as a little quality in one or two departments.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Incomplete_usernam

    Joined:
    19 Aug 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Reputation:
    1,269
    Come on mate, we are clearly on a downward trend in terms of form in the PL, we have all but blown a 10+ point lead and we have to go to Liverpool away next.

    Even the most optimistic of people don't believe we will be in third come the next PL games.

    What I am saying is, using our current league standing and where we are in the CL to try and mask our complete failures at the moment is disingenuous and ignoring the reality of the situation.

    We should be worried, very worried.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • Like x 1
  8. FightingIllini

    Joined:
    1 Sep 2014
    Messages:
    1,360
    Reputation:
    2,022
    Depends how and why I guess.

    Regardless of what we do, the standard keeps getting raised in this league. It's improve or die, always.
     
    • Agree x 2
    • Like x 1
  9. Incomplete_usernam

    Joined:
    19 Aug 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Reputation:
    1,269
    I agree with you on that, in this league you have to improve or you really do go backwards.

    Teams below us are closing the gap because of our lack of investment in the footballing side of our club.
     
    • Agree x 3
  10. StripiestPilot

    Joined:
    3 Sep 2018
    Messages:
    348
    Reputation:
    652
    I don’t think 9 defeats in 30 games is excelling.

    They deserve credit for maintaining a similar points total to previous seasons and doing it in awkward circumstances (no stadium, injuries, no signings) but the actual football on the pitch is clearly the worst we’ve seen from this group of players. We’ve have been very fortunate to win so many games without playing well and now the law of averages is seeing our poor performances lead to poor results. We might have won 20 games but the 9 (very similar) defeats give a better insight into our team. This season we are simply not that hard to beat, and that is absolutely a regression from previous seasons.
     
    • Agree x 8
  11. hrytn

    Joined:
    31 Jan 2017
    Messages:
    2,418
    Location:
    London
    Reputation:
    2,374
    The manager
     
    • Agree x 1
  12. Blanchflower

    Supporter

    Joined:
    21 Sep 2011
    Messages:
    16,979
    Location:
    Arnos Grove
    Reputation:
    25,327

    :deledoubt:

    It's only since December that we've had a meaningful points gap between us and Scum / Chelsea.

    None of the teams below us have really improved in that time, they've just had a run of form and easier games to pick up points in.
     
  13. snowkarl

    Joined:
    19 Jan 2014
    Messages:
    599
    Reputation:
    511
    Easier games has nothing to do with it. Our fixtures have been just as easy as United's and arsenals. We have been getting worse and they've gotten their shit together.
     
    • Agree x 2
  14. Ricky villa

    Joined:
    6 May 2018
    Messages:
    10
    Reputation:
    11
    Man Utd look biggest losers after today's Results, chelsea dropped vital points also. I see us sneaking into top 4 by skin of our teeths at the the end of 12th May 2019!
     
  15. Incomplete_usernam

    Joined:
    19 Aug 2018
    Messages:
    589
    Reputation:
    1,269
    Liverpool have overtaken us as things stand, I don’t think they are having a fluke season and they will just keep improving the squad as time goes on.

    Woolwich and United have invested and aren’t far behind us, as a matter of fact I am willing to bet United finish above us next season because they are guaranteed to make more signings, as are Woolwich.

    Chelsea are an unknown at this point, anything could happen there.

    You can’t say they have had an easier run, that’s simply not the truth, we haven’t been putting teams away that we should have been putting away and the reason that has happened is for a number of reasons, one of which is our lack of investment in the team catching up with us, especially in the midfield area.

    The gap is closing and people don’t want to see it because they are in denial quite frankly and it’s going to be even worse next season because we will be, imo, losing a number of key players (Toby, Eriksen) both of which I think are as good as gone unless we manage to convince them otherwise which I think would have already happened if it was going to.

    Levy might be a great businessman but like many have said, he doesn’t invest in the squad with top quality talent, he will never pay the market prices and unfortunately, that’s what it takes these days to go that final step (unless you have a “miracle” season like Leicester.)
     
    • Like x 2
  16. Notabadsquad

    Joined:
    12 Sep 2016
    Messages:
    5,385
    Reputation:
    4,121
    #16 Notabadsquad, 11 Mar 2019
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2019
    It's a cycle, the manager or maybe they have just excelled previously and are now at their actual level or the World Cup.

    No group of players continue to develop unless they are pushed and much of that comes from being challenged by competition.

    I never break it down because much of it is simply down to confidence. When you lose 9 games as a team much is not right.

    That means you are being questioned, rotated and asking questions of yourself.

    The very same could be argued for all teams in positions 3 to 6 such has been the nature of this season.

    And of course you tire of a manager's voice, maybe in a subconscious way which is why you must always always refresh a squad.

    It's a reasonable question but with no magic bullet of an answer.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. sammyspurs

    Joined:
    15 Apr 2012
    Messages:
    32,679
    Reputation:
    47,431
    #17 sammyspurs, 11 Mar 2019
    Last edited: 11 Mar 2019
    But that would surely mean we don’t need a new midfield and fullbacks
    I don’t think they’re excelling....I think all those players in that list have regressed to various degrees.

    The quality is there, hence our position, but what was an outside title challenge four weeks ago now looks like EL
     
    • Agree x 2
  18. Fidel Castro

    No thieves ,no traitors, no interventionists

    Joined:
    30 Mar 2014
    Messages:
    1,728
    Reputation:
    3,126
    We are not as good as 2 years ago .
     
    • Agree x 7
  19. ArcspacE

    BINNED AGAIN

    Joined:
    18 Jul 2012
    Messages:
    33,173
    Location:
    Totti - Cheating Maggot Out Now
    Reputation:
    29,479
    Some of those players are simply not good enough for a Top 3 / PL challenge side and never will be. Never. The odd good game vs relegation fodder means nothing - in every single crunch PL game this season we've come short

    Our CM and full backs is at its weakest since Poch arrived an people still expect the same results. Like buying a fancy motor and not servicing it for 3-4 years expecting to run the same. Unless the Board invests in the squad - nothing will change other than eventually losing our superstars who can go elsewhere and actually win stuff and may be build some egos - lol
     
    • Agree x 4
    • Like x 1
  20. sammyspurs

    Joined:
    15 Apr 2012
    Messages:
    32,679
    Reputation:
    47,431
    Agree to an extent but Poch made those players compete. Right now I could go through the whole squad and say that Winks, Jan and Sissoko are the only consistent performers.
    Son has always been hot and cold but has never been labelled in the same way as Dele and Eriksen as world class, and those two themselves have been nowhere near as good as they were two years ago.

    Its not just about the "cloggers"......if people are honest, they will also say Kane was better a couple years ago, DESPITE the stats.
    Our energy and aggression is fucking shit now.

    Manager?
    Or just a coincidence that an entire team hasnt learned a thing, bar the odd CL game
     
    • Like x 1
    • Agree x 1
Draft saved Draft deleted
If you see people ruining threads with off-topic discussion, arguing or personal abuse, use the 'Foul' link at the bottom of their post to vote for them to be sent off. More info

Share This Page