Harry Winks

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Guido said:
You haven't heard anything negative from me about Southgate, just go to the England manager thread (or England thread) and I've supported his appointment from day one. And I continue to remain impressed with him, all be it frustrated with his insistence of not playing Winks (or another baller) next to a DM and instead playing with two out and out DM's.

I wouldn't go near him with a barge pole as a suggested replacement for Poch. I want to see evidence of his ability to improve players, something that I'm not expecting him to achieve while an International Manager (it's not in the remit). Managing players every day of the week compared to having them for a week or two a couple of times a year is night and day difference and something I don't recall as an identified ability when he was a Club Manager.

But as a club manager, his next job (if that's what he wants to do next) will require a steep learning curve, and probably a sacking before he is truly assimilated back into club management and during this time should be looked at for his ability to coach players and not just try to have them mimic the club teams managed by proven club managers like Poch, Guardiola and Klopp. The pressing drills, the philosophy and stylistc approach to the team, he will have to own and develop these, something he simply hasn't done or shown for many, many years.
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Wouldnt go near him with a barge pole, despite the fact you just acknowledged he plays a midfield that Poch refuses to and has been the root of all evil for three years?

Interesting that you feel he hasnt developed any players either....after dropping all the names and taking in a load of kids from day one.
You think the likes of Maddison and Maguire, Rice, Sancho etc havent developed because of the international set up that trusts them and gives them game time and training?

Poch has abandoned pressing for years, which you also acknolwedged yesterday, so a bit rich lauding him for it. What I saw yesterday was a Southgate team stick 6 past a side with 11 men behind the ball......

Wouldnt that be nice

The domestic thing is also a poor argument...If Poch was offered the Argentina job, would you say he´s going to be shit because International football is different?
If anything, Southgate has learned a lot from having experienced the differences. Positive.
 
sammyspurs said:
Wouldnt go near him with a barge pole, despite the fact you just acknowledged he plays a midfield that Poch refuses to and has been the root of all evil for three years?

Interesting that you feel he hasnt developed any players either....after dropping all the names and taking in a load of kids from day one.
You think the likes of Maddison and Maguire, Rice, Sancho etc havent developed because of the international set up that trusts them and gives them game time and training?

Poch has abandoned pressing for years, which you also acknolwedged yesterday, so a bit rich lauding him for it. What I saw yesterday was a Southgate team stick 6 past a side with 11 men behind the ball......

Wouldnt that be nice

The domestic thing is also a poor argument...If Poch was offered the Argentina job, would you say he´s going to be shit because International football is different?
If anything, Southgate has learned a lot from having experienced the differences. Positive.
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No, he's not developing players, it's not in his job description. He hasn't for example got one of the new players to match the level of how they play for their club team (Mount, has been poor in his two appearances, Sancho nothing like the player he is for Dortmund, Rice has been a disaster. Rashford has been the same, ineffective, so have to question his inclusion at all, he's not played Winks for an eternity until last night), so I'm all ears if you can actually attribute a tangible improvement in a player. If you are suggesting that by merely selecting a player to play for their Country improves them, then that should be said of every single England Manager that has gone before him, I mean that's still not improving the ability of a player, it's called making a phone call.

We haven't pressed due to very specific reason, debated them all at length so no need to recycle them here but as headings; No Break in summer to 90% of first-team due to deep run in World Cup, No pre-season to said players, Injuries to same said players, lack of planed rotation due to injuries of said players, knock-on effects to other fringes players as consequence of injuries, sale of Dembele, Sale of Walker, Injury to Wanyama, Son playing 3 international tournaments. All reasons, individual but mainly compound as to why we dropped our press, simply couldn't be done. The new challenge this year, do the old players have it in their legs & minds to press, all the talk coming out of the dressing room suggest they don't.

Any club manager can walk into an international appointment, this transition is a piece of piss. Whether they will be good or not is another debate. International Management isn't 9-5, you only have the players a few weeks a year, there simply is no comparison compared to the relentless 24/7 of Club Management.
 
Guido said:
No, he's not developing players, it's not in his job description. He hasn't for example got one of the new players to match the level of how they play for their club team (Mount, has been poor in his two appearances, Sancho nothing like the player he is for Dortmund, Rice has been a disaster. Rashford has been the same, ineffective, so have to question his inclusion at all, he's not played Winks for an eternity until last night), so I'm all ears if you can actually attribute a tangible improvement in a player. If you are suggesting that by merely selecting a player to play for their Country improves them, then that should be said of every single England Manager that has gone before him, I mean that's still not improving the ability of a player, it's called making a phone call.

We haven't pressed due to very specific reason, debated them all at length so no need to recycle them here but as headings; No Break in summer to 90% of first-team due to deep run in World Cup, No pre-season to said players, Injuries to same said players, lack of planed rotation due to injuries of said players, knock-on effects to other fringes players as consequence of injuries, sale of Dembele, Sale of Walker, Injury to Wanyama, Son playing 3 international tournaments. All reasons, individual but mainly compound as to why we dropped our press, simply couldn't be done. The new challenge this year, do the old players have it in their legs & minds to press, all the talk coming out of the dressing room suggest they don't.

Any club manager can walk into an international appointment, this transition is a piece of piss. Whether they will be good or not is another debate. International Management isn't 9-5, you only have the players a few weeks a year, there simply is no comparison compared to the relentless 24/7 of Club Management.
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Sorry mate but you just say “stuff”

Southgate hasn’t helped develop anyone?
Who was the last player Poch developed?

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn always a fucking excuse for Poch. Bored of it.
Ok, no one is better than Poch and he’s just like Klopp and Pep and he’ll win the title in 8 years with his new squad.

See ya
 
sammyspurs said:
Sorry mate but you just say “stuff”

Southgate hasn’t helped develop anyone?
Who was the last player Poch developed?

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaawn always a fucking excuse for Poch. Bored of it.
Ok, no one is better than Poch and he’s just like Klopp and Pep and he’ll win the title in 8 years with his new squad.

See ya
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I asked you who Southgate has developed, no answer from you Sammy.

Poch has developed
Font
Lovren
Lallana
Shaw
Schniderlin
All of the above went for multiple millions of pounds, unheard of players and get this Lovern & Font were once heralded as the two best CB's in the league that's why all the money was spunked on them, the moment all of these players went to their new teams they went to shit, unable to replicate their excellence when under Poch.
Coutinho
Dele
Kane
Rose
Tripps
Alderwereld
Davies
Walker
Son

All of these players have direct and tangible improvements under Poch. No other Manager has been responsible for as many England debuts as him.

Could go on and on but this is the Winks thread.
 
Guido said:
I asked you who Southgate has developed, no answer from you Sammy.

Poch has developed
Font
Lovren
Lallana
Shaw
Schniderlin
All of the above went for multiple millions of pounds, unheard of players and get this Lovern & Font were once heralded as the two best CB's in the league that's why all the money was spunked on them, the moment all of these players went to their new teams they went to shit, unable to replicate their excellence when under Poch.
Coutinho
Dele
Kane
Rose
Tripps
Alderwereld
Davies
Walker
Son

All of these players have direct and tangible improvements under Poch. No other Manager has been responsible for as many England debuts as him.

Could go on and on but this is the Winks thread.
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You do chat the most shit on here by some margin
It must take some effort to talk as much bollocks as you do. You should be proud of yourself well done 👍
 
Baggio1988 said:
You do chat the most shit on here by some margin
It must take some effort to talk as much bollocks as you do. You should be proud of yourself well done 👍
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Why thanks for going to all the trouble for telling me this, I found it absolutely fascinating feedback, something I will ponder on over a cup of tea for all a 0.3 seconds.

This is a football forum, where those that have the minerals put their opinion out to be debated. Unfortunately, it also attracks the bottle job loons who contribute absolutely fuck all to the subject matter. You pipe up from absolutely nowhere and attack the poster personally. No mention of football in any of your posts, what an utter waste of skin.

Why don't you get off your high horse and contribute to the forum by actually discussing football, but that would mean having the bottle to having your thoughts challenged by those that might disagree.
 
Guido said:
Why thanks for going to all the trouble for telling me this, I found it absolutely fascinating feedback, something I will ponder on over a cup of tea for all a 0.3 seconds.

This is a football forum, where those that have the minerals put their opinion out to be debated. Unfortunately, it also attracks the bottle job loons who contribute absolutely fuck all to the subject matter. You pipe up from absolutely nowhere and attack the poster personally. No mention of football in any of your posts, what an utter waste of skin.

Why don't you get off your high horse and contribute to the forum by actually discussing football, but that would mean having the bottle to having your thoughts challenged by those that might disagree.
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Our views and opinions on football are so different it isn't even worth a debate
I don't want to discuss anything with anyone who thinks alli is an elite player and one of the world greats
Saying that you have a point about the attack there was no need on my part to even reply to you earlier and apologies for that it did not contribute you are right
 
Baggio1988 said:
Our views and opinions on football are so different it isn't even worth a debate
I don't want to discuss anything with anyone who thinks alli is an elite player and one of the world greats
Saying that you have a point about the attack there was no need on my part to even reply to you earlier and apologies for that it did not contribute you are right
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Thanks for your apology, appreciated.

Please take this in the humour intended, there is no debate if you agree with the poster. It looks like this:

Poster A: Kane's brilliant.

Baggio: Yes he is.

Poster A: He's so brilliant that I can't get over how brilliant he is.

Baggio: You know you are right, I can't agree with you anymore if I tried, you are bang on the money, he's brilliant.

Poster A: He is you know, isn't he?

Baggio: Yeah, he's brilliant.

Most posters on here are absolutely fine, even when things get heated and the disagreements are strong on both sides. Things start to go to shit when the opinion is ignored and the poster is individually attacked rather than the opinion (play the ball, not the man).

For those that debate matters regularly on here I think there is in the main a mutual respect, as it does take the nerve to voice an opinion and then have it attacked by numerous posters via response, it takes a thick skin, but that's where I respect the other poster if things remain about the topic being discussed rather than going for the person, it's a slippery slope when that happens and I will happily oblige going in two-footed if someone gets personal with me.
 
Guido said:
play the ball, not the man
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Nooooooooooo, no, no, no, no no!

I was banned from one of the "top ITK" forums (not SC, the other one) for just that, having pointed out that one of their hallowed sources of secret privileged information was repeating stories that had been in Marca earlier in the day.

Play the man I say, go in hard, leave your mark
 
One of the worst performances from a Spurs player I've ever seen

Misplaced every pass, lost the ball countless times, no awareness whatsoever, dispossesed every time I saw him trying a dribble and was just gash at everything.

Can't understand how he starts ahead of Lo Celso and Ndombele (even a 10kg overweight Tanguy's gotta be better than this...). Honestly I'd prefer Skipp over him at this point.
 
This will sound harsh but I dont think hes good enough to be our starting cm if we want to challenge top 4. Hes an average to below average athlete whos only real strength is the pivot and short keep possesion pass imo
 
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It was the balance of the side that was wrong. A back 5 and 2 holding midfielders leaving only 3 attacking players at home against Watford. Had Sissoko not played and say a more attacking player played he would have been ok just making short safe passes but we posed no risk to the Watford goal and the team that finished the match was far better placed to do so. I blame the set up more than the individual players for the toothless first half.
 
I'm just not convinced with Winks to be honest, I don't know where he fits in. He doesn't seem to be defensive enough to play as a DM, but I don't think he's attack-minded enough to play as an AM. He seems to be a more general CM, but he's not consistent and his passing isn't accurate enough to really have an impact.
 
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