Harry Winks

[bus-conductor]

Posted this in ratings but might as well put it in here too, it helps explain Wink's role:

For the record:

Winks 28/29 forward passes - 23/24 square - 12/13 backwards

Sissoko 14/17 Forward - 7/12 Square - 24/24 Backwards

Eriksen 23/33 Frward - 15/15 square - 23/23 Backward


Very impressive from Winks.

Personally I think there is a massive disparity in the praise/performance ratio regarding Winks and Sissoko. One is quieter and less noticeable than the other, but actually contributes a fair bit more IMO. One gets very little recognition, the other constantly gets more than his share of praise and forgiven his sins quicker.

FFS that's a dreadful way to judge a player like him. His job is to get on the ball and recycle to the front four as quickly and efficiently as possible, at which he is genuinely outstanding, especially for his age.

He's "just kind of there" if you have no clue about what that role requires. He's not supposed to go on mazey dribbles, he's not supposed to be the one playing the killer final pass. The problem with so many people's judgement of players like Winks is that their expectations are so far off base that it renders their judgement completely moot.

What we need is Dier or Wanyama back to partner him, or another DM, to make best use of his prodigious strengths, not to replace him.

Good post, completely agree, which is why I said in the ratings I'd love to see Skipp put central, and have Eriksen and Winks as the two 8's either side. Nice balance, all are comfortable on the ball, Skipp can hold and cover, (but can also see a forward pass) Winks and Eriksen keeping us moving forwards, Winks more metronomic and slightly less adventurous, Eriksen the more expansive.

Winks does need to keep learning but people forget, although he's been around a while now, he's still only started something like 18 games. And also, as we see with Eriksen, it's not all about tackling and intercepting, it's also about pressing, and Winks is actually getting better at it, and is pretty mobile at the press.

 

[The Swellhead Spur]

Great game again, the ball to KWP for Lucas' goal was stunning

 

[Totti]

 

[Totti]

Very poor in the second half today.

I've seen a lot of hyperbole though regarding his overall ability. Can we please judge Winks when he's actually got a ball winning defensive midfielder next to him please?

He's arguably being told to do a job that he doesn't excel in. I'm sure Pochettino will sit him aside and Winks will learn and improve other sides of his game that are weak.

Eriksen was no better than him today.

 

[StripiestPilot]

Winks was the least of our problems today, he is a young player having to play in a very difficult position for someone of his stature. He will only improve.

 

[Gobbygonk]

Winks is not ready now - opponents don't worry about him unlike Dier or Dembele. He likes a lightweight IMO

 

[Totti]

Winks is not ready now - opponents don't worry about him unlike Dier or Dembele. He likes a lightweight IMO

Not playing him as our defensive midfielder would probably help him.

After the loss at Woolwich (when we didn't play Winks), he played in EVERY single game we played, except the Burnley game where we played Skipp instead, in which we mostly dominated and won besides the game today.

20 goals scored within those 7 games and he had helped control a lot of those games by keeping possession in the high 80% region.

I knew as soon as we lost a game he'd get a few haters out. Simply because to lose, it'd probably have been down to our midfield either playing too many games with little rotation or get overexposed for having no pure defensive midfielder.

Winks has an ankle injury that needs to be carefully managed yet he's played 7 games in 24 days. A game every 3 and a half days. I doubt he's even playing at 80% fitness.

 

[BriPelli]

Likable lad and decent at recycling the ball, but today showed again why he's not good enough. We need bring in a CL caliber Central Mid in January

 

[Totti]

Likable lad and decent at recycling the ball, but today showed again why he's not good enough. We need bring in a CL caliber Central Mid in January

To be fair, if we're basing players on the Wolves game alone, Son also showed he wasn't good enough for Spurs.

Luckily, it's likely to be a one off game. I'd be amazed if we lost another 'home' game this season.

 

[Wallander]

I imagine he's on a hefty salary but would have been a decent buy for ourselves to *finally* get Moutinho in. What did he cost...£5m? He ran the show in the second half and would have been a good mentor for Winks who has good temperment with the ball but is quite lightweight and not defensively aware.

 

[BriPelli]

To be fair, Son showed today that he isn't good enough to play for Spurs.

Luckily, it's likely to be a one off game. I'd be amazed if we lost another 'home' game this season.

Not this game alone. Our attackers and defense have masked his deficiencies long enough. Has he ever created any goal scoring chances? No killer through passes him from him, ever. We need to do better in this area. He's a nice guy and is decent rotation material. Eriksen and Dele not being up for it today really highlighted this.

 

[Totti]

Not this game alone. Our attackers and defense have masked his deficiencies long enough. Has he ever created any goal scoring chances? No killer through passes him from him, ever. We need to do better in this area. He's a nice guy and is decent rotation material. Eriksen and Dele not being up for it today really highlighted this.

He's playing deeper than he should be doing.

I think this is probably a case of you expecting something of someone who isn't there to do what you want him to do.

It's like me complaining at Dembele every week for not assisting or scoring every single week because he has the ability to do so. He wasn't good today, but neither was Dele or Eriksen. Kane had ZERO touches in the opposition box today in the second half.

Winks will always divide our fanbase it seems. One half won't seem to give him any credit until he scores goals and gets assists like he's some sort of Lampard, Gerrard or Scholes type and the other half appreciate that having someone in the team who can keep the ball from being turned over to the opposition is a useful asset to have.

 

[Wallander]

He's playing deeper than he should be doing.

I think this is probably a case of you expecting something of someone who isn't there to do what you want him to do.

It's like me complaining at Dembele every week for not assisting or scoring every single week because he has the ability to do so. He wasn't good today, but neither was Dele or Eriksen. Kane had ZERO touches in the opposition box today in the second half.

Winks will always divide our fanbase it seems. One half won't seem to give him any credit until he scores goals and gets assists like he's some sort of Lampard, Gerrard or Scholes type and the other half appreciate that having someone in the team who can keep the ball from being turned over to the opposition is a useful asset to have.

The answer as is often the case is somewhere in between.

During his absence his reputation among the fans grew bigger as if he was the missing ingredient to ours (and England's) creative problems from midfield.

Yet here we are having scored 14 goals in the last 4 matches he started and Winks has some question marks over his performances.

He is a solid player on the ball. Not expansive or very risk taking. He keeps it moving, can make a bit of room for himself and generally is a very well tempered midfielder. I alluded a few days ago pretty much all of his noteworthy games come in the Champions League where the ball is on the ground a lot more and you get a bit more time on it. In the Premier League I don't recall a standout performance from Winks.

Generally he doesn't have to standout because a typical Winks performance (high 80s pass percentage) that is followed up by the attacking qualities of those ahead of him usually sees us win.

But the question is if Winks has more to his locker then wouldn't it be nice to see it. And if he doesn't we need to bring in a midfielder who has a bit more to his game, and Winks can be a very good backup / rotational player.

 

[stevee]

The answer as is often the case is somewhere in between.

During his absence his reputation among the fans grew bigger as if he was the missing ingredient to ours (and England's) creative problems from midfield.

Yet here we are having scored 14 goals in the last 4 matches he started and Winks has some question marks over his performances.

He is a solid player on the ball. Not expansive or very risk taking. He keeps it moving, can make a bit of room for himself and generally is a very well tempered midfielder. I alluded a few days ago pretty much all of his noteworthy games come in the Champions League where the ball is on the ground a lot more and you get a bit more time on it. In the Premier League I don't recall a standout performance from Winks.

Generally he doesn't have to standout because a typical Winks performance (high 80s pass percentage) that is followed up by the attacking qualities of those ahead of him usually sees us win.

But the question is if Winks has more to his locker then wouldn't it be nice to see it. And if he doesn't we need to bring in a midfielder who has a bit more to his game, and Winks can be a very good backup / rotational player.

Good post with some very good points.
If we were giving a MOTM performance for the 1st half only, Winks imo would be it.
People (not you) putting the blame on Winks for the second half is grossly unfair.
You have players around him that are older, more experienced and, possibly, better than him and all those players were absolute shite in the second half.
Yet people are singling him out as the weak link. I thought both Dele and Eriksen had one of there worst games for us and yet they, seemingly, get a pass and all the blame is put on a young kid, playing with an injury that had (I think ?) a 93% pass completion.

 

[Totti]

Good post with some very good points.
If we were giving a MOTM performance for the 1st half only, Winks imo would be it.
People (not you) putting the blame on Winks for the second half is grossly unfair.
You have players around him that are older, more experienced and, possibly, better than him and all those players were absolute shite in the second half.
Yet people are singling him out as the weak link. I thought both Dele and Eriksen had one of there worst games for us and yet they, seemingly, get a pass and all the blame is put on a young kid, playing with an injury that had (I think ?) a 93% pass completion.

It's easy to blame him that's why. People can't comprehend an English midfielder who keeps possession.

You'll mention Eriksen's performance and you'll usually get a response like "It's a one off from him" - but how's that fair on anyone? Just because this may have been a one off for Eriksen doesn't make him exempt from criticism. He's our go to man to make play. He's the one you want on the ball to create something special, not Winks.

So why does Winks get the blame for being "one-dimensional" or "safe" - it's odd. I can understand the criticism of his defensive work. It's not his strong suit and when we have a defensive midfielder, I don't want to see him deep. But to single him out is just silly. Everyone had an off day.

 

[BriPelli]

It's easy to blame him that's why. People can't comprehend an English midfielder who keeps possession.

You'll mention Eriksen's performance and you'll usually get a response like "It's a one off from him" - but how's that fair on anyone? Just because this may have been a one off for Eriksen doesn't make him exempt from criticism. He's our go to man to make play. He's the one you want on the ball to create something special, not Winks.

So why does Winks get the blame for being "one-dimensional" or "safe" - it's odd. I can understand the criticism of his defensive work. It's not his strong suit and when we have a defensive midfielder, I don't want to see him deep. But to single him out is just silly. Everyone had an off day.

We need to bring in another playmaker next month. Winksy is good enough when our attacking players are creating goals while he is busy passing backwards and sideways but matches like today show why we need a better CM.

 

[Tomo]

It's easy to blame him that's why. People can't comprehend an English midfielder who keeps possession.

You'll mention Eriksen's performance and you'll usually get a response like "It's a one off from him" - but how's that fair on anyone? Just because this may have been a one off for Eriksen doesn't make him exempt from criticism. He's our go to man to make play. He's the one you want on the ball to create something special, not Winks.

So why does Winks get the blame for being "one-dimensional" or "safe" - it's odd. I can understand the criticism of his defensive work. It's not his strong suit and when we have a defensive midfielder, I don't want to see him deep. But to single him out is just silly. Everyone had an off day.

Sadly a lot of English football fans can’t comprehend ‘tippy tappy’ players in the squad. He retains possesion, pass and move, pass and move like a continental player.

When Modric was here quite a few Spurs fans (other than Gibbs) thought he was rubbish, ‘he doesn’t assist or score and can’t tackle’ etc.

In the modern game most teams that do well have a Winks type of player, issue is our DM’s are either long term or short term crooked and he is playing somewhat out of position.

He is technically a top player but looks fatigued, he needs support and competition around him. He also was not our worst player today.

 

[Totti]

We need to bring in another playmaker next month. Winksy is good enough when our attacking players are creating goals while he is busy passing backwards and sideways but matches like today show why we need a better CM.

Got no problem with that.

I don't even think a playmaker is necessarily needed. Just someone in the mould of Berge, Rabiot, Ndombele, Diawara etc. - someone who can beat a press, strong on the ball and can pass it, as well as having defensive strengths.

Winks will learn a lot more fighting for a place in the team than just being handed starts week after week.

Sadly a lot of English football fans can’t comprehend ‘tippy tappy’ players in the squad. He retains possesion, pass and move, pass and move like a continental player.

When Modric was here quite a few Spurs fans (other than Gibbs) thought he was rubbish, ‘he doesn’t assist or score and can’t tackle’ etc.

In the modern game most teams that do well have a Winks type of player, issue is our DM’s are either long term or short term crooked and he is playing somewhat out of position.

He is technically a top player but looks fatigued, he needs support and competition around him. He also was not our worst player today.

You're not wrong.

I will shy away from the Modric comparisons though because Modric was pretty damn good defensively and strong on the ball, whilst Winks is rather weak on it and very poor off it.

He's a great asset to have against the 'lower teams' and when we have a pure defensive midfielder in alongside him in a midfield 3, I think he'd be even better and get a lot more credit from those within our own fan-base too.

 

[Tomo]

Got no problem with that.

I don't even think a playmaker is necessarily needed. Just someone in the mould of Berge, Rabiot, Ndombele, Diawara etc. - someone who can beat a press, strong on the ball and can pass it, as well as having defensive strengths.

Winks will learn a lot more fighting for a place in the team than just being handed starts week after week.




You're not wrong.

I will shy away from the Modric comparisons though because Modric was pretty damn good defensively and strong on the ball, whilst Winks is rather weak on it and very poor off it.

He's a great asset to have against the 'lower teams' and when we have a pure defensive midfielder in alongside him in a midfield 3, I think he'd be even better and get a lot more credit from those within our own fan-base too.

Yeh wasn’t saying same level of ability as Modric, just a similar type of player.

 

[Airfixx]

State of this thread over the last couple of weeks (today's match thread also)...

The future > not good enough > The future > not good enough > a gem > shite...


Winsky's put in some blinding performances including numerous against top teams.

That ought to engender belief. So much for being patient and supportive of the lad. Show some balls and get behind him FFS!


Saw this shite coming a mile off in the summer....