Harry Winks

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TheSpurEst said:
In some sense I understand both sides that take things to extreme here in the topic.

I understand those who defend Winks, because some other posters have been saying that "He is Championsip level player" and "He is useless" etc - clearly an overreaction and very, very big generalization!! And also not true. He has been valuable player for us in other games.

I understand those who point out his yesterday's performance - he could have done better. Most likely they just put it kind of over the top, based on emotion. I also expected more from him.

But I would really love to see that people would
1) make a distinction between his performance in one game and his overall quality!
2) try to explain and discuss what he did well / badly or how did he perform compared to teammates...etc. Just saying "He is s*it" is ... sorry but stupid. Also saying "He is football genius" is kind of stupid.
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1) He is very good at what he does. But this is not good enough at this level sorry to say. I hope he improves
2)He is exceptional at linking up with defence but that is where it ends. He needs to be able to play through the middle and link up with forwards. he needs to be able to pass a through ball. He needs to be able to win headers. He needs to be able to shoot from 20 yards out.
 
"They have a wonderful skilled boy with Winks", Klopp said at his pre-match press conference.

"Tottenham is one of the teams I admire the most for the way they play, I think the grass today did not help them either, they have a lot of quality to play. Harry Winks came on the pitch and changed the game so they are an exceptional team." - Pep Guardiola

''England should build around Harry Winks'' - Gary Neville

'Winks can be perfect midfielder'' - Mauricio Pochettino

''I thought Harry Winks was the best player in the Champions League final'' - Jamie Carragher

No, no, you all know better.
 
Spursdem said:
"They have a wonderful skilled boy with Winks", Klopp said at his pre-match press conference.

"Tottenham is one of the teams I admire the most for the way they play, I think the grass today did not help them either, they have a lot of quality to play. Harry Winks came on the pitch and changed the game so they are an exceptional team." - Pep Guardiola

''England should build around Harry Winks'' - Gary Neville

'Winks can be perfect midfielder'' - Mauricio Pochettino

''I thought Harry Winks was the best player in the Champions League final'' - Jamie Carragher

No, no, you all know better.
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You can be a perfect poster.-Andersen
 
TheSpurEst said:
Hm, sorry, for 2nd time today I have to disagree with something fundamental - the fact that we did not score a goal was not down to poor performance of attacking players. The game was lost in midfield. Which Winks was a part of. Hence "no goals" was more of a result of his (and our midfield performance) rather than "no goals" would be an excuse for his performance level.

Literally there is a clichee "Midfield is where you win and lose games". Expected ppl to have heard about it.

Yesterday there was no one who could have dribbled / run / pass through their midfield with the ball. That allowed their two lines to drop back comfortably and double or triple mark the attacking player. Even if we would have had Kane there yesterday he would have been in middle of the crowd of Leipzig players.

I am not saying Winks was s*it nor worst player on field (not even in CM) but to call it "coping extremely well" is very much an overstatement. Gedson was quite useless yesterday - 1 good cross and other time giving the ball away. Lo Celso in turn was only player who managed to find some really cleaver passes and ways to control the ball/tempo even for short periods. Winks was in the middle. He did ok. Kept ball moving at times, made some very important blocks / tackles as well. At the same time he often lacked ability or alertness to play the right pass and he was outrun by Leipzig player for number of times. On 10 point scale I'd say Lo Celso was 7,5, Winks like 6 and Gedson 4,5.
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The game was lost due to a calamitous piece of defending from Davies though surely? As I have said before take Werner and Schick out of the Leipzig team and give us Kane and Son and what do you think the score would have been? Would the midfield battle have been as crucial if luck going into it was evenly matched?

I'm not saying Winks is perfect but I am very happy that he's a Spurs player. He's a good player that is being asked a lot of based on ur levels of depth. I don't think it's fair people stick the boot in on him when it's the other areas of our football club that are putting a heavy burden on him. Talent wise he is more than able to add excellent value to a 25 man squad.

No Sissoko & Ndombele from the off and serious decline in levels from Dier and Wanyama for their own personal reasons means more responsibility for Winks. Shortcomings that aren't to do with Winks means it's harsh to point fingers at Harry in my opinion mate.
 
Andersen said:
1) He is very good at what he does. But this is not good enough at this level sorry to say. I hope he improves
2)He is exceptional at linking up with defence but that is where it ends. He needs to be able to play through the middle and link up with forwards. he needs to be able to pass a through ball. He needs to be able to win headers. He needs to be able to shoot from 20 yards out.
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Agree with all except for the win headers part. :mourthumb:

There are times that Winks has the ball and there are 20 yards of open pitch in front of him, what does he do 90% of the time? passes it out wide.
:mourfacepalm:
 
Totti said:
I don't think he was even that bad tonight.

Was weak at times, agreed. But also played some lovely balls that broke lines, worked hard and kept his intensity up for 90 minutes.

I like Gedson, I do think he has something about him but it was like having Sissoko in there alongside Winks again tonight - Winks was having to do a monster job just to compensate.
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That might explain it

because I thought he was poor last night

second to everything too slow and not brave enough on the ball

the speed at which he moves the ball forward has been a real improvement recently. But that didn’t show yesterday.

I thought he was fortunate to last the match
 
" not brave enough on the ball "
RealCoolYid said:
That might explain it

because I thought he was poor last night

second to everything too slow and not brave enough on the ball

the speed at which he moves the ball forward has been a real improvement recently. But that didn’t show yesterday.

I thought he was fortunate to last the match
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You nailed it.
 
Imagine you have the chance of playing champions league in front of a full Tottenham stadium. And you ar not brave on the ball. Well you need to find something else to do because this is prime time.
 
TheSpurEst said:
Hm, sorry, for 2nd time today I have to disagree with something fundamental - the fact that we did not score a goal was not down to poor performance of attacking players. The game was lost in midfield. Which Winks was a part of. Hence "no goals" was more of a result of his (and our midfield performance) rather than "no goals" would be an excuse for his performance level.

Literally there is a clichee "Midfield is where you win and lose games". Expected ppl to have heard about it.

Yesterday there was no one who could have dribbled / run / pass through their midfield with the ball. That allowed their two lines to drop back comfortably and double or triple mark the attacking player. Even if we would have had Kane there yesterday he would have been in middle of the crowd of Leipzig players.

I am not saying Winks was s*it nor worst player on field (not even in CM) but to call it "coping extremely well" is very much an overstatement. Gedson was quite useless yesterday - 1 good cross and other time giving the ball away. Lo Celso in turn was only player who managed to find some really cleaver passes and ways to control the ball/tempo even for short periods. Winks was in the middle. He did ok. Kept ball moving at times, made some very important blocks / tackles as well. At the same time he often lacked ability or alertness to play the right pass and he was outrun by Leipzig player for number of times. On 10 point scale I'd say Lo Celso was 7,5, Winks like 6 and Gedson 4,5.
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You are right. Jose is moaning about lack of strikers but that should result in stats like the Villa game whereby we have chances but do not take them. We did not have chances and that problem is further back. I have watched many lower division teams play us in the F A Cup and play very competitively but then when they get a chance to score fail to do so. That is what you expect without Kane and Son.
 
spursmalc said:
You are right. Jose is moaning about lack of strikers but that should result in stats like the Villa game whereby we have chances but do not take them. We did not have chances and that problem is further back. I have watched many lower division teams play us in the F A Cup and play very competitively but then when they get a chance to score fail to do so. That is what you expect without Kane and Son.
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Yes i agree
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
The game was lost due to a calamitous piece of defending from Davies though surely? As I have said before take Werner and Schick out of the Leipzig team and give us Kane and Son and what do you think the score would have been? Would the midfield battle have been as crucial if luck going into it was evenly matched?

I'm not saying Winks is perfect but I am very happy that he's a Spurs player. He's a good player that is being asked a lot of based on ur levels of depth. I don't think it's fair people stick the boot in on him when it's the other areas of our football club that are putting a heavy burden on him. Talent wise he is more than able to add excellent value to a 25 man squad.

No Sissoko & Ndombele from the off and serious decline in levels from Dier and Wanyama for their own personal reasons means more responsibility for Winks. Shortcomings that aren't to do with Winks means it's harsh to point fingers at Harry in my opinion mate.
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Yes, I actually do believe that if we would have taken Schick and Werner out of their team and put Kane-Son back to ours we still wouldn't have won it.

Look in what position our attacking players mostly received the ball and how many RB players were around them. Look how they walked through the midfield with very little resistance.

I agree that Winks is nice bloke to have around. And in this post I even stated that Winks was not super bad in the game and not the worst player on the field either. Not even worst player in our CM set-up.
But that does not mean we controlled the midfield. And that does not mean that we would not need someone who would be able to dictate the tempo of the game in there.
 
A complete waste of a shirt. Can't tackle, track back, head, shoot. Has the touch of a hippopotamus on heat. Can only pass backwards after a pirouette or two, invariably gives the ball away when trying anything more adventurous. I am sure he is a nice bloke and Spurs through and through and all that but he is just not good enough. Makes Ryan Mason look like Pirlo.
 
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