Europa v Champs

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Preference

  • Total voters
    119
Sort by date Sort by reaction score
So to just to get this straight - who can I blame for us not buying a striker :)

I'm continuing with ENIC for the time being as that what most people recognise our owners to be - but if we all agree on a new name that's fine by me.

I just want us to win something and soon :)

We're now 13 years or so under 'ENIC' with one League Cup to show - That's our worst trophy haul for well over 60 years, since 1950 to be precise, before even I was born.

People talk about the much maligned 90s, but we won TWO trophies in that decade and finished 3rd as well. A higher Lge position than ENIC have managed. Yes overall we've done better in the last 10 years than in the 90s, but there isn't the gulf that so many imply. As I say better trophy haul and higher Lge position in those so-called 'mediocre years'.
 
Greaves_357 said:
So to just to get this straight - who can I blame for us not buying a striker :)

I'm continuing with ENIC for the time being as that what most people recognise our owners to be - but if we all agree on a new name that's fine by me.

I just want us to win something and soon :)

We're now 13 years or so under 'ENIC' with one League Cup to show - That's our worst trophy haul for well over 60 years, since 1950 to be precise, before even I was born.

People talk about the much maligned 90s, but we won TWO trophies in that decade and finished 3rd as well. A higher Lge position than ENIC have managed. Yes overall we've done better in the last 10 years than in the 90s, but there isn't the gulf that so many imply. As I say better trophy haul and higher Lge position in those so-called 'mediocre years'.
Click to expand...

tumblr_mgj60yv7H81rjdfzto1_500.gif
 
57 varieties said:
think we're at cross wires! & levy & lewis formed a company called kondor to buy out the remaining shares which they didn't hold of enic int, .. the company is called enic group with lewis the majority shareholder.
Click to expand...

I don't know about Kondor but I'm still lacking any info that says ENIC doesn't exist in any of its various forms. Is ENIC Group just a combo of the original ENIC and ENIC Int'l or is that dead too? Is everything Tavistock and is Kondor a part of Tavistock? This is the problem dealing with tax exiles and multi-billion dollar multinational companies, its all shadow games and whatever. As far as I know, our holding company is still called ENIC something or other (with Lewis as its financial core and Levy as his spokesperson/representative at Spurs), with Tavistock as its umbrella corporation.

Regardless, Lewis is unwilling to invest in the same way as the oil barons are and thats because for all his vast wealth it just doesn't match up to Abramovich and the UAE/Qatari interests. We're in this position and we should balance our reluctance to get behind our ownership for the lack of heavy investment with the relief we're not in the position of Leeds or Pompey.
 
It's true that ENIC don't have the money to compete with the Chelseas and Citys of this world. However, they could afford easily to invest more than they do IF they wanted.

Someone like Dave Whelan is relatively poor by our owners' standards, but still puts in huge amounts of cash into Wigan.

Now, there's no reason I agree that ENIC should do the same, but it would help our cause considerably.

AFAIK Joe Lewis isn't interested in football, fair enough that's his perogative.

I just wish we had owners like RA, the Sheiks, Dave Whelan, Jack Walker in former years, who are interested in football and their club succeeding, who are basically fans and are prepared to put their own money in to make success happen.

There are no guarantees of course, it could easily be wasted money.

It's up to ENIC whether they want to gamble or not. So far they haven't and we know the trophy haul that has (not) accrued.

We as fans often put huge amounts of our disposable income into the club. At times in my younger years I probably put 20% of it into my club. Over the years I must have averaged about 5-10% of my disposable income. I've never been rich so that's money that means sacrifices elsewhere.

I'm not unusual in this, many put much more in. Yes, it's our choice, but hey we're doing our bit most of us, and ENIC?
 
Greaves_357 said:
It's true that ENIC don't have the money to compete with the Chelseas and Citys of this world. However, they could afford easily to invest more than they do IF they wanted.

Someone like Dave Whelan is relatively poor by our owners' standards, but still puts in huge amounts of cash into Wigan.

Now, there's no reason I agree that ENIC should do the same, but it would help our cause considerably.

AFAIK Joe Lewis isn't interested in football, fair enough that's his perogative.

I just wish we had owners like RA, the Sheiks, Dave Whelan, Jack Walker in former years, who are interested in football and their club succeeding, who are basically fans and are prepared to put their own money in to make success happen.

There are no guarantees of course, it could easily be wasted money.

It's up to ENIC whether they want to gamble or not. So far they haven't and we know the trophy haul that has (not) accrued.

We as fans often put huge amounts of our disposable income into the club. At times in my younger years I probably put 20% of it into my club. Over the years I must have averaged about 5-10% of my disposable income. I've never been rich so that's money that means sacrifices elsewhere.

I'm not unusual in this, many put much more in. Yes, it's our choice, but hey we're doing our bit most of us, and ENIC?
Click to expand...

I wasn't replying to any of your previous posts but Abramovich and the other oil barons have injected incredible amounts into their clubs to get them where they are. They are so obscenely rich they won't miss a billion dollars, even if only half of it was reinvested or returned. Lewis would. Lewis would miss a hundred million in the long run. Abramovich is 3 times as rich as Lewis is, and the Al Nayahan family that own City are 10 times as rich as Abramovich. We are attempting to compete with Jupiter and Saturn for who has the biggest planet.

City's owners are by far the richest but they've attempted to at least get the club to the point it can attempt of run itself by starting projects surrounding the youth team and the training ground. Their plans to build a separate stadium for the u21s are basically unheard of in England but at least they are investing in the fairly deprived surrouding area and have an eye on sustainability. If they can have the best academy in Europe then they can become the Barca of England, or so they believe.

Spurs are small fries in the economic game, but we could have ended up like Blackburn under Walker. Wigan under Whelan is hardly even a comparison. The simple fact is we will NEVER get investment in the first team under Lewis but we will get investment in infrastructure. As an overseas supporter, ticket prices are disgusting even for Category C matches and this is simply because our season ticket waiting list is huge and demand for tickets is so high. There are people raking it in off the back of these facts. But there is also stadium development and the new training ground to think of.

A balanced view about our ownership is needed. Levy doesn't need to be worshipped, but he's doing his job fairly well. He isn't being given much to work with and is still bringing in good players, but a large amount of our supporters are having to pay far too much for tickets. Modern sports in general are FUCKED. A bunch of people making fortunes off the back of working people. I'd prefer to line Bale's pockets than Tevez's or Terry's though.
 
Had we ended up like Blackburn under Walker that would have been great. We would have won the title, and considering we're three or four times the size of Rovers in terms of fanbase, we might have won three or four titles. Had we had someone pushing money into us like Walker in this era we would probably have won a fair few trophies and got more CL places. Whelan is a comparison, I just made it. We're probably 6 or 7 times the size of Wigan in terms of fanbase, and yet while they've gone from 4th division to Prem, we've won what? one League Cup-

Had we had someone putting in money proportionate to our size as Whelan has done for Wigan, who knows what we could have achieved.

I agree we need a balanced view of our owners, that's what I'm trying to give. How about you?

I would say overall ENIC have done a good job, but they haven't gone the extra mile like RA, City's owners, Whelan and Walker who did/have done a fantastic/excellent/unbelievable job for their clubs.
 
Greaves_357 said:
Had we had someone putting in money proportionate to our size as Whelan has done for Wigan, who knows what we could have achieved.
Click to expand...

The investment needed to get from the fourth tier of English football into the premier league is insignificant compared to the investment that would be needed to put us in contention for the PL title. It's like saying because a child has done well enough to get to GCSE level that they are intelligent enough to become professor of astro physics at Cambridge university. If it's so simple why haven't Wigan won the Premier League?

I would say overall ENIC have done a good job, but they haven't gone the extra mile like RA, City's owners, Whelan and Walker who did/have done a fantastic/excellent/unbelievable job for their clubs.
Click to expand...
You are still judging ENIC/ Tavistock / SPECTRE or (whatever name they go under now) by the wrong standards. They are not an individual, the only reason RA, Sheikh Mansour, and Jack Walker pushed all their money into their respective clubs is vanity.

Besides which we don't have a vain billionaire subsidising the club. We have a club that is self sufficient.
 
Greaves_357 said:
I would say overall ENIC have done a good job, but they haven't gone the extra mile like RA, City's owners, Whelan and Walker who did/have done a fantastic/excellent/unbelievable job for their clubs.
Click to expand...

I would say the real question is could they have gone the extra mile? Or even what does the extra mile look like?

I like to think if they could have, they would have - in terms of super massive cash injections. They arent a super rich oil baron, as far as I am aware they cannot throw money into the club - as nice as it would be.

In terms of just taking a gamble (Ba) or making a sensible investment while it was there (Lambert was your example) though I certainly think they could have done a lot more without threatening the finances. There have been numerous examples.

In terms of not pushing for that £20m+ "make the difference" player Im a little more on the fence, it is such a gamble I can understand hesitance, but even then I feel we should have gone for it at some point.

Moutinho would have made a monumental difference this season IMHO. Suarez (spit) the other year would have. However, we could have ended up with an Arshavin instead!
 
Lister said:
I would say the real question is could they have gone the extra mile? Or even what does the extra mile look like?

I like to think if they could have, they would have - in terms of super massive cash injections. They arent a super rich oil baron, as far as I am aware they cannot throw money into the club - as nice as it would be.

In terms of just taking a gamble (Ba) or making a sensible investment while it was there (Lambert was your example) though I certainly think they could have done a lot more without threatening the finances. There have been numerous examples.

In terms of not pushing for that £20m+ "make the difference" player Im a little more on the fence, it is such a gamble I can understand hesitance, but even then I feel we should have gone for it at some point.

Moutinho would have made a monumental difference this season IMHO. Suarez (spit) the other year would have. However, we could have ended up with an Arshavin instead!
Click to expand...

Good points and good questions.

I, unsurprisingly, don't have the answers.

In the end it's quite simple. 'By their results, ye shall know them'.

Let's see how we all feel come May.
 
I dont think May will change anything. There will be those pleased with progress (however small) and those aggreived that it isnt enough...
 
Greaves_357 said:
So to just to get this straight - who can I blame for us not buying a striker :)

I'm continuing with ENIC for the time being as that what most people recognise our owners to be - but if we all agree on a new name that's fine by me.

I just want us to win something and soon :)

We're now 13 years or so under 'ENIC' with one League Cup to show - That's our worst trophy haul for well over 60 years, since 1950 to be precise, before even I was born.

People talk about the much maligned 90s, but we won TWO trophies in that decade and finished 3rd as well. A higher Lge position than ENIC have managed. Yes overall we've done better in the last 10 years than in the 90s, but there isn't the gulf that so many imply. As I say better trophy haul and higher Lge position in those so-called 'mediocre years'.
Click to expand...

Why the need to 'blame' anyone? this isn't 'championship fifa manager league pro 2014'. Life, and shit and stuff happens. Sometimes there is no-one to 'blame' for any of it.

People in general are more and more these days either joining dots that aren't even there or cannot see the dots because they only exist in circles that 99.9% of the people on forums don't have access to.

I could propose a hundred reasons why we didn't buy a striker, like for one example: there is a budget but it has been set aside for the summer because the target we want won't join unless we have CL next year, and so it is ring fenced rather than spend it on a 2nd choice who we would then have to sell at a loss in the future.

Or maybe the targets we wanted went elsewhere, or their agent advised them to wait until summer to negotiate a better deal, or their dads told them to see their season out and be loyal to their existing clubs, or they have a new mistress who they can't bear to be away from.

All of them conjecture, and all perfectly reasonable IF we were given all the facts.

The fact is that we didn't buy a striker, but were still in with a shout of CL, which in itself it's not all it's cracked up to be once you remove the hyperbole.

Shiny things and glory, that is what made this club great. Not selling our soul for 30 pieces of silver.

Oh and by the way, 'what you want' doesn't justify any proposition you make either. It makes you appear somewhat naive and juvenile. Which to be fair, given that it is Easter hols you may well be.
 
Greaves_357 said:
Yes overall we've done better in the last 10 years than in the 90s, but there isn't the gulf that so many imply. As I say better trophy haul and higher Lge position in those so-called 'mediocre years'.
Click to expand...

I was reading this and agreeing in principle until you said this bit. You have to consider the competition, and standard of the game.

This Spurs team would have won the double about 8 times in the 90's.
 
Anthony Beale said:
Lloris
Carr King Vertonghen Bae
Sandro
Modric
Lennon Bale Ginola
Klinsman
Click to expand...

................................Lloris


Walker.........Vertonghen.........King............BAE


.............................Sandro


...............Bale.......Modric...........Ginola


................................Berbatov


....................Teddy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom