Bad Atmosphere and how to combat it!

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I blame though our new generation of fan who doesn't realise that, very recently, we were pretty shite, and think that by just turning up we will steamroll Norwich, Fulham, Hull etc.

It shouldn't matter who we are playing or in what competition, the ground should be buzzing.

Slightly off topic but it sickens me the attitude a lot of fans take with the League Cup, Europa and even the FA Cup.

Tottenham Hotspur is a club famous for winning cups, home and abroad and if you think that they are beneath us you should fuck off and support someone else instead of worrying about some shite man made competition that serves as a self preservation society for only the very biggest clubs.

Which brings me back on topic. Get your fingers out your arses regardless of who we are playing and maybe The Lane can become a 'Cauldron' again.
I don't think the blame is solely with the new generation.

Some of the people in the ground you know have been there and seen it all but are as bad as anyone for whinging and expecting success because we've had it in recent times.
The big games are no fuss (albeit even some of them can be poor if things aren't going our way) but I'd argue it's the majority that don't get up for the 'little' games.

I'm entirely with you. I go to support Tottenham, couldn't give a toss what competition it is or who the opposition are. It definitely seems to be the case now though where most are more interested in who we're playing and whether they're up for it today or not.

Hence the majority of cup games go to general sale these days.

I don't think the atmosphere this season (excluding the European games) have been as bad as last year but they can be improved on. Norwich for example was nowhere near as bad as it was last year.
One of my least enjoyable experiences at White Hart Lane, fortunately the next one was the Barcelona next gen game and restored some faith in our support.
Norwich game this year was nowhere near as bad, their support was worse this year though.
 
I don't think the blame is solely with the new generation.

Some of the people in the ground you know have been there and seen it all but are as bad as anyone for whinging and expecting success because we've had it in recent times.
The big games are no fuss (albeit even some of them can be poor if things aren't going our way) but I'd argue it's the majority that don't get up for the 'little' games.

I'm entirely with you. I go to support Tottenham, couldn't give a toss what competition it is or who the opposition are. It definitely seems to be the case now though where most are more interested in who we're playing and whether they're up for it today or not.

Hence the majority of cup games go to general sale these days.

I don't think the atmosphere this season (excluding the European games) have been as bad as last year but they can be improved on. Norwich for example was nowhere near as bad as it was last year.
One of my least enjoyable experiences at White Hart Lane, fortunately the next one was the Barcelona next gen game and restored some faith in our support.
Norwich game this year was nowhere near as bad, their support was worse this year though.

Norwich and West Brom were particularly bad last year.
 
Kick-off time is another big factor. Early games and Sunday games are always quieter, relatively speaking, simply because everyone is more sober/hungover. Not sure when the next Saturday evening match is but I guarantee that the atmosphere in that one will be much better than expected.
 
Kick-off time is another big factor. Early games and Sunday games are always quieter, relatively speaking, simply because everyone is more sober/hungover. Not sure when the next Saturday evening match is but I guarantee that the atmosphere in that one will be much better than expected.

Aw, I dunno y'know...
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I seem to remember 90 minutes of TOTAL BEDLAM!

(OK, not the example you were looking for...)
 
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Kick-off time is another big factor. Early games and Sunday games are always quieter, relatively speaking, simply because everyone is more sober/hungover. Not sure when the next Saturday evening match is but I guarantee that the atmosphere in that one will be much better than expected.

Not going to Newcastle & United at home due to kicking of midday on a Sunday.

Its fucking nonsense.
 
The biggest threat to ANY atmosphere is nonchalance.
Many people (and not just from our club) have commented that the atmosphere was much better when the football wasn't!
I don't know or associate with MANY Chelsea fans, but of the few I do know, they are adamant that some of the best days - atmosphere wise - came in the Old 2nd Division.... I'm sure many Man City fans would know the feeling too!

Sadly, all the Sky money, and globalisation of the Premier League Brand has in no small part contributed to the dilution of atmosphere, due to it now being more akin to a fucking tourist attraction on a matchday!
No one bangs on about the 'cracking atmosphere' at Madam Tussaud's or The Tower of London, do they?
 
Is Gary Neville a listener of TFC podcast?
- his latest article might suggest that

Andre Villas-Boas ruffled a few feathers by complaining about a ‘difficult atmosphere with no support’ at White Hart Lane after Tottenham’s narrow 1-0 win against Hull last Sunday.

To be honest, you could say the same thing about a lot of grounds and I think the Spurs manager has highlighted an issue as important as our desire to uncover more English footballers and coaches.

The Premier League provides wonderful quality and excitement on the pitch, which is why 4.7billion TV viewers tune in around the world. Until now, it has also been envied by other leagues for the noise and passion of supporters.

I am desperately keen to keep it that way — but we have to be aware of the problems. Simply saying “We are the Premier League and we have the best atmosphere” has become a cliche.

In reality, some of our grounds are nothing like they once were for noise and passion.

An interesting comparison for me is that a survey from the 1970s showed the average age of a supporter in Manchester United’s Stretford End was 17.

Throw forward to today and the percentage of spectators in the top flight who are under 16 has fallen from 22 per cent to nine per cent since 1983. The average age of an adult Premier League fan is currently 41.

That has to be as big a contributory factor to the reduced noise levels and atmosphere at our stadiums as switching from terraces to all-seaters. As a teenager, you have that exuberance and enthusiasm that’s not quite the same in the 40 or 50-somethings.

A 17-year-old will be less likely to give up on his team, whatever has happened. Your normal 41-year-old will be pragmatic, realistic or even cynical when things aren’t going well.


THE DAMNING STATISTICS
41The average age of a Premier League fan in 2011-12.

17% of fans were aged between 16 and 20 when the Premier League began.

9%of fans were aged between 16 and 24 by 2006-07.

22% of top-flight supporters under 16 in 1983.

9% of top-flight supporters under 16 now.

Just as clubs and the national team need young emerging players as their lifeblood so, too, they need a young generation of fans to maintain the buzz of match-day atmosphere. But we’re in a country now where young people struggle to get on the housing ladder or afford university fees. How are they going to buy expensive Premier League season-tickets? It’s a real shame.

We also have to be aware of the changing expectations of supporters who pay top dollar.

When you’re within the game, results are everything. But, in truth, it’s not exclusively a results business any more — it’s an entertainment business, too. Your average diehard fan, who used to put up with anything as long as the team won, now wants goals, entertainment, high-energy action and incidents to lift them. When prices were lower, fans would put up with more because supporting their team was in their soul and part of their identity.

People paying £70 for a ticket will demand more for their money. There is a shift from being a fan to being a consumer and demanding value for your money.

Increased ticket prices also mean a generation of youngsters are missing out on being inspired by watching top-level football. That used to be common. I was one of those youngsters who learnt from being at games. We’ve got an FA Commission looking at how to develop footballers. There are three ways you can improve as a young player; being taught the game properly, putting in the practice; watching football to educate and inspire you.

I was taken to Old Trafford from the age of five, we’d queue from 11am and the whole day was magical. Watching top players from the angle of my seat in the stadium enhanced my chances of becoming a professional player.

I don’t want young kids to miss out on that — if they go to play centres or the cinema instead, we are going to miss out on the next wave of footballers. We have to be careful football doesn’t become even more exclusive than it has become. Identifying the problem is one thing, offering solutions is more difficult. But there are things we can try.

I was at Manchester United’s game with Real Sociedad recently where a singing section was tested. It’s worth a go. There are clubs that help subsidise away travel and some offer cheaper tickets.

I would like to see more away fans allowed in. In Germany, 10 per cent of Bundesliga tickets are given to the away team. Having been in the dug-out at Wembley for England’s recent game against Poland, I thought the atmosphere was electric. Yes, it was an important game but the noisy Polish fans enhanced the experience, even if I did have concerns about it pre-match.

FA Cup ties — where attendances are lower — can have better atmospheres than some League games simply because both sets of fans get tickets in good numbers. The away fans are the soul of the football club, who follow you through thick and thin. We should be encouraging them, not sticking them up in the gods or not allowing them in at all.

I also think players can help by engaging with fans. And I don’t mean kissing the badge. Simple things like Leighton Baines going over to take a corner for England against Poland recently where he clapped the supporters as he went. They rose to him in response.

Fans have to see that from players representing them, it makes them think “Yeah, come on, they need our support”. Do we see enough player and fan on-field engagement in the Premier League?

Of the hundreds of matches I’ve seen and covered in the past few years, none beats the atmosphere in Dortmund when they beat Real Madrid 4-1 in last season’s Champions League semi-final.

While it could be said this was a memorable and important match, it felt more than that. Seeing those Dortmund lads sat on the pitch at the end of the game in awe of their fans, you got the feeling players and fans were as one.

I know the German model has been celebrated, and rightly so when you realise at Borussia Dortmund you can pay €15-18 (£12-15) for a standing ticket to watch one of the best teams in the world. That price feels about right and helps fans feel part of the team.

We used to have that in England. If we still want outsiders to be impressed by the passion of our football in 10 years’ time, we should think about what we are doing now to maintain and create that bond between fans, players and clubs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-danger-priced-game-Gary-Neville-column.html
 
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I'm entirely with you. I go to support Tottenham, couldn't give a toss what competition it is or who the opposition are. It definitely seems to be the case now though where most are more interested in who we're playing and whether they're up for it today or not.

I agree with this I remember back in Martin Jol days all of the Europa league games at the lane we're sell outs and the crowd were loud and got behind the team.

I for one go and support the team if we are playing Woolwich or if we are playing some unknown team from another country!!

They could do with having a section in the ground for the fans who do want to sing and support the team without the prawn sandwich eaters giving you dirty looks!!
 
The average age of an adult Premier League fan is currently 41.

Wow, I'm bang on average!!!

I'm just concerned that the perceived notion will make it sound like that's a bad thing, and anyone who isn't 17 is gonna sit in stony silence, arms folded, waiting/DEMANDING to be entertained....
Nothing could be further from the truth!
 
I haven't read through all the posts on this, so not sure if it's been said, but not everyone goes to football to sing & chant. Me, I’m a shouter, chanter, singer, the lot….but I can understand that not everyone feels the need to or wants to. There are some strange folk out there, you’ll see em all, but to slag em off just because they watch football in a different way to you is a bit odd. Maybe they can’t enjoy the game singing songs, maybe they want to take more of an interest in other aspects of the game & the day out itself. Maybe it’s the only peace & quiet they get all week from a nagging Mrs.
It’s common knowledge that the West Stand is quieter, if you don’t like it, just don’t sit there again, no need to slag of Tottenham fans for choosing to enjoy the game in a different way.
People that chant & sing….fine
People that don’t….also fine
 
I'm over 60 and when I go to the Lane I'm loud and proud and make loads of noise, almost always more than anyone round me. I was brought up that was the way true supporters acted.

Unfortunately, most of the time I'm looked upon with disdain by the moaning whingers around me that the Lane is so full of. I decided in the end it was a losing battle and said I wouldn't go this season, and indeed never again, at least until the new stadium was built. However, 1882 may yet tempt me back, there at least there are people after my own aged heart, people who sing and shout and cheer for the team.
 
I haven't read through all the posts on this, so not sure if it's been said, but not everyone goes to football to sing & chant. Me, I’m a shouter, chanter, singer, the lot….but I can understand that not everyone feels the need to or wants to. There are some strange folk out there, you’ll see em all, but to slag em off just because they watch football in a different way to you is a bit odd. Maybe they can’t enjoy the game singing songs, maybe they want to take more of an interest in other aspects of the game & the day out itself. Maybe it’s the only peace & quiet they get all week from a nagging Mrs.
It’s common knowledge that the West Stand is quieter, if you don’t like it, just don’t sit there again, no need to slag of Tottenham fans for choosing to enjoy the game in a different way.
People that chant & sing….fine
People that don’t….also fine


If you don't want to sing and chant, fine as you say. Though you're weakening the Spurs cause by not doing so. However, if you choose not to sing but instead spend your time whinging, moaning, criticizing, etc that's when you become the unacceptable face of Spurs fandom.
 
If you don't want to sing and chant, fine as you say. Though you're weakening the Spurs cause by not doing so.
I'm pretty sure the Spurs cause will be just fine if the West Stand folk continue in their way of watching the game.

However, if you choose not to sing but instead spend your time whinging, moaning, criticizing, etc that's when you become the unacceptable face of Spurs fandom.
This is true, you'll always get people who moan, but again, that's their wish. If you can have a decent argument with them, it usually makes them shut up a bit. It is these fans who grate on me, but usually I'll try and shoot them down before their negative attitude starts to take over.
 
Even the demeanour and make-up of our away support is changing...

Take yesterday and the "sit down" PA announcements caused by people at the back in our section moaning about people in front standing. At Villa previously there was a whole section of our lot in the corner sat down and being very quiet.

Over the last couple of years I've observed a marked change in our away support: There are:
a) a lot more parents with kids - and
b) dare I say it, more fellas and their girlfriends.

I would guess this is being facilitated by the culture of people applying for away tickets they have no intention of using to gain loyalty points and then selling them easily via Twitter.

Is the problem being caused by people who are new and have no history with the "away day" now having easy access to tickets and taking their subdued attitudes from the Lane up the motorway with them?

The away trip is no longer a butterflies in stomach, 'keep yer nut down' affair. It has become a routine,take the family along day-out. For some a way seeing Spurs - provided you book into the Malmaison and take the Doris shopping in the afternoon.

Away trips used to be a massive relief for me: a holiday from the fickle, groaning home support and Cat-C day trippers. Now they seem to bloody travel too.
 
Like Greaves357, i am getting on a bit but i too am also usually the noisiest/most animated & join in the most chants where i generally sit in 44.

John Still, the Dagenham & Redbridge manager said something that realy rung true with me. He said Premier League fans attend matches to 'watch the show' whereas lower league fans are 'part of the show'.
As a fairly regular attendee at Rymans Premier games i think he has a point. It used to be like that at Spurs until around 4-5 years ago.
 
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