Yeah, don't dare try to fix the atmosphere
http://www.thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/our-support-was-shit-today.6933/
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http://www.thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/threads/our-support-was-shit-today.6933/
Great post, about time we spoke about this!
If you're not sat in shelf or block 32-35 in south lower you may as well bring a book to read.
Sat in west stand last year for QPR right near the dug out row 1. At half time I took a moment to enjoy the view. After five minutes I went for the standard pork pie and bottle of coke and some guy next to me had a cheese board out. Yes a fucking cheese board.
The look he gave me for making him move was worse than the one Ade gave AVB when he said he had to come back to work.
Seriously, if you aren't going home with a sore throat from shouting you may as well stay at home IMO.
And fuck cheese. And prawns. Cunts.
If you're not sat in shelf or block 32-35 in south lower you may as well bring a book to read.
Sat in west stand last year for QPR right near the dug out row 1. At half time I took a moment to enjoy the view. After five minutes I went for the standard pork pie and bottle of coke and some guy next to me had a cheese board out. Yes a fucking cheese board.
The look he gave me for making him move was worse than the one Ade gave AVB when he said he had to come back to work.
Seriously, if you aren't going home with a sore throat from shouting you may as well stay at home IMO.
And fuck cheese. And prawns. Cunts.
Song sheets?????? GTFO! 
Oh, and everyone hates the England band.
Oh, and everyone hates the England band.
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Is Gary Neville a listener of TFC podcast?
- his latest article might suggest that
Andre Villas-Boas ruffled a few feathers by complaining about a ‘difficult atmosphere with no support’ at White Hart Lane after Tottenham’s narrow 1-0 win against Hull last Sunday.
To be honest, you could say the same thing about a lot of grounds and I think the Spurs manager has highlighted an issue as important as our desire to uncover more English footballers and coaches.
The Premier League provides wonderful quality and excitement on the pitch, which is why 4.7billion TV viewers tune in around the world. Until now, it has also been envied by other leagues for the noise and passion of supporters.
I am desperately keen to keep it that way — but we have to be aware of the problems. Simply saying “We are the Premier League and we have the best atmosphere” has become a cliche.
In reality, some of our grounds are nothing like they once were for noise and passion.
An interesting comparison for me is that a survey from the 1970s showed the average age of a supporter in Manchester United’s Stretford End was 17.
Throw forward to today and the percentage of spectators in the top flight who are under 16 has fallen from 22 per cent to nine per cent since 1983. The average age of an adult Premier League fan is currently 41.
That has to be as big a contributory factor to the reduced noise levels and atmosphere at our stadiums as switching from terraces to all-seaters. As a teenager, you have that exuberance and enthusiasm that’s not quite the same in the 40 or 50-somethings.
A 17-year-old will be less likely to give up on his team, whatever has happened. Your normal 41-year-old will be pragmatic, realistic or even cynical when things aren’t going well.
THE DAMNING STATISTICS
41The average age of a Premier League fan in 2011-12.
17% of fans were aged between 16 and 20 when the Premier League began.
9%of fans were aged between 16 and 24 by 2006-07.
22% of top-flight supporters under 16 in 1983.
9% of top-flight supporters under 16 now.
Just as clubs and the national team need young emerging players as their lifeblood so, too, they need a young generation of fans to maintain the buzz of match-day atmosphere. But we’re in a country now where young people struggle to get on the housing ladder or afford university fees. How are they going to buy expensive Premier League season-tickets? It’s a real shame.
We also have to be aware of the changing expectations of supporters who pay top dollar.
When you’re within the game, results are everything. But, in truth, it’s not exclusively a results business any more — it’s an entertainment business, too. Your average diehard fan, who used to put up with anything as long as the team won, now wants goals, entertainment, high-energy action and incidents to lift them. When prices were lower, fans would put up with more because supporting their team was in their soul and part of their identity.
People paying £70 for a ticket will demand more for their money. There is a shift from being a fan to being a consumer and demanding value for your money.
Increased ticket prices also mean a generation of youngsters are missing out on being inspired by watching top-level football. That used to be common. I was one of those youngsters who learnt from being at games. We’ve got an FA Commission looking at how to develop footballers. There are three ways you can improve as a young player; being taught the game properly, putting in the practice; watching football to educate and inspire you.
I was taken to Old Trafford from the age of five, we’d queue from 11am and the whole day was magical. Watching top players from the angle of my seat in the stadium enhanced my chances of becoming a professional player.
I don’t want young kids to miss out on that — if they go to play centres or the cinema instead, we are going to miss out on the next wave of footballers. We have to be careful football doesn’t become even more exclusive than it has become. Identifying the problem is one thing, offering solutions is more difficult. But there are things we can try.
I was at Manchester United’s game with Real Sociedad recently where a singing section was tested. It’s worth a go. There are clubs that help subsidise away travel and some offer cheaper tickets.
I would like to see more away fans allowed in. In Germany, 10 per cent of Bundesliga tickets are given to the away team. Having been in the dug-out at Wembley for England’s recent game against Poland, I thought the atmosphere was electric. Yes, it was an important game but the noisy Polish fans enhanced the experience, even if I did have concerns about it pre-match.
FA Cup ties — where attendances are lower — can have better atmospheres than some League games simply because both sets of fans get tickets in good numbers. The away fans are the soul of the football club, who follow you through thick and thin. We should be encouraging them, not sticking them up in the gods or not allowing them in at all.
I also think players can help by engaging with fans. And I don’t mean kissing the badge. Simple things like Leighton Baines going over to take a corner for England against Poland recently where he clapped the supporters as he went. They rose to him in response.
Fans have to see that from players representing them, it makes them think “Yeah, come on, they need our support”. Do we see enough player and fan on-field engagement in the Premier League?
Of the hundreds of matches I’ve seen and covered in the past few years, none beats the atmosphere in Dortmund when they beat Real Madrid 4-1 in last season’s Champions League semi-final.
While it could be said this was a memorable and important match, it felt more than that. Seeing those Dortmund lads sat on the pitch at the end of the game in awe of their fans, you got the feeling players and fans were as one.
I know the German model has been celebrated, and rightly so when you realise at Borussia Dortmund you can pay €15-18 (£12-15) for a standing ticket to watch one of the best teams in the world. That price feels about right and helps fans feel part of the team.
We used to have that in England. If we still want outsiders to be impressed by the passion of our football in 10 years’ time, we should think about what we are doing now to maintain and create that bond between fans, players and clubs.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-danger-priced-game-Gary-Neville-column.html
- his latest article might suggest that
Andre Villas-Boas ruffled a few feathers by complaining about a ‘difficult atmosphere with no support’ at White Hart Lane after Tottenham’s narrow 1-0 win against Hull last Sunday.
To be honest, you could say the same thing about a lot of grounds and I think the Spurs manager has highlighted an issue as important as our desire to uncover more English footballers and coaches.
The Premier League provides wonderful quality and excitement on the pitch, which is why 4.7billion TV viewers tune in around the world. Until now, it has also been envied by other leagues for the noise and passion of supporters.
I am desperately keen to keep it that way — but we have to be aware of the problems. Simply saying “We are the Premier League and we have the best atmosphere” has become a cliche.
In reality, some of our grounds are nothing like they once were for noise and passion.
An interesting comparison for me is that a survey from the 1970s showed the average age of a supporter in Manchester United’s Stretford End was 17.
Throw forward to today and the percentage of spectators in the top flight who are under 16 has fallen from 22 per cent to nine per cent since 1983. The average age of an adult Premier League fan is currently 41.
That has to be as big a contributory factor to the reduced noise levels and atmosphere at our stadiums as switching from terraces to all-seaters. As a teenager, you have that exuberance and enthusiasm that’s not quite the same in the 40 or 50-somethings.
A 17-year-old will be less likely to give up on his team, whatever has happened. Your normal 41-year-old will be pragmatic, realistic or even cynical when things aren’t going well.
THE DAMNING STATISTICS
41The average age of a Premier League fan in 2011-12.
17% of fans were aged between 16 and 20 when the Premier League began.
9%of fans were aged between 16 and 24 by 2006-07.
22% of top-flight supporters under 16 in 1983.
9% of top-flight supporters under 16 now.
Just as clubs and the national team need young emerging players as their lifeblood so, too, they need a young generation of fans to maintain the buzz of match-day atmosphere. But we’re in a country now where young people struggle to get on the housing ladder or afford university fees. How are they going to buy expensive Premier League season-tickets? It’s a real shame.
We also have to be aware of the changing expectations of supporters who pay top dollar.
When you’re within the game, results are everything. But, in truth, it’s not exclusively a results business any more — it’s an entertainment business, too. Your average diehard fan, who used to put up with anything as long as the team won, now wants goals, entertainment, high-energy action and incidents to lift them. When prices were lower, fans would put up with more because supporting their team was in their soul and part of their identity.
People paying £70 for a ticket will demand more for their money. There is a shift from being a fan to being a consumer and demanding value for your money.
Increased ticket prices also mean a generation of youngsters are missing out on being inspired by watching top-level football. That used to be common. I was one of those youngsters who learnt from being at games. We’ve got an FA Commission looking at how to develop footballers. There are three ways you can improve as a young player; being taught the game properly, putting in the practice; watching football to educate and inspire you.
I was taken to Old Trafford from the age of five, we’d queue from 11am and the whole day was magical. Watching top players from the angle of my seat in the stadium enhanced my chances of becoming a professional player.
I don’t want young kids to miss out on that — if they go to play centres or the cinema instead, we are going to miss out on the next wave of footballers. We have to be careful football doesn’t become even more exclusive than it has become. Identifying the problem is one thing, offering solutions is more difficult. But there are things we can try.
I was at Manchester United’s game with Real Sociedad recently where a singing section was tested. It’s worth a go. There are clubs that help subsidise away travel and some offer cheaper tickets.
I would like to see more away fans allowed in. In Germany, 10 per cent of Bundesliga tickets are given to the away team. Having been in the dug-out at Wembley for England’s recent game against Poland, I thought the atmosphere was electric. Yes, it was an important game but the noisy Polish fans enhanced the experience, even if I did have concerns about it pre-match.
FA Cup ties — where attendances are lower — can have better atmospheres than some League games simply because both sets of fans get tickets in good numbers. The away fans are the soul of the football club, who follow you through thick and thin. We should be encouraging them, not sticking them up in the gods or not allowing them in at all.
I also think players can help by engaging with fans. And I don’t mean kissing the badge. Simple things like Leighton Baines going over to take a corner for England against Poland recently where he clapped the supporters as he went. They rose to him in response.
Fans have to see that from players representing them, it makes them think “Yeah, come on, they need our support”. Do we see enough player and fan on-field engagement in the Premier League?
Of the hundreds of matches I’ve seen and covered in the past few years, none beats the atmosphere in Dortmund when they beat Real Madrid 4-1 in last season’s Champions League semi-final.
While it could be said this was a memorable and important match, it felt more than that. Seeing those Dortmund lads sat on the pitch at the end of the game in awe of their fans, you got the feeling players and fans were as one.
I know the German model has been celebrated, and rightly so when you realise at Borussia Dortmund you can pay €15-18 (£12-15) for a standing ticket to watch one of the best teams in the world. That price feels about right and helps fans feel part of the team.
We used to have that in England. If we still want outsiders to be impressed by the passion of our football in 10 years’ time, we should think about what we are doing now to maintain and create that bond between fans, players and clubs.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-danger-priced-game-Gary-Neville-column.html
My early years as a spurs fan were spent in that part of the ground. I had my choice of course a my dad was the one who owned the season tickets and I was 12-17 years old.
It's always been like that an I can't see it changing. Not everyone goes to football to act like a mentalist, especially not in dead rubber walk-over cup games like last night.
A much bigger problem is the traditionally rowdier areas are getting quieter. That's where a difference can be made.
In terms of last night I thought there was a decent amount of chanting going on considering how flat the occasion was. I know we're all about sing for the shirt no matter what yadda yadda but the opposition were so shite it was like watching a training session. Personally I found it a struggle to even celebrate our goals.
1882 is great because we an still have a fun time at football even when what's going on on the pitch is boring as fuck. But sadly I can't see the majority of fans doing this until the club designate singing areas on a regular basis.
It's always been like that an I can't see it changing. Not everyone goes to football to act like a mentalist, especially not in dead rubber walk-over cup games like last night.
A much bigger problem is the traditionally rowdier areas are getting quieter. That's where a difference can be made.
In terms of last night I thought there was a decent amount of chanting going on considering how flat the occasion was. I know we're all about sing for the shirt no matter what yadda yadda but the opposition were so shite it was like watching a training session. Personally I found it a struggle to even celebrate our goals.
1882 is great because we an still have a fun time at football even when what's going on on the pitch is boring as fuck. But sadly I can't see the majority of fans doing this until the club designate singing areas on a regular basis.
Yeah I am I was born 27 years ago into a spurs supporting family! But now we are enjoying wonderful glorious football I suddenly love them!
Fuck off!
I remember growing up and seeing the likes of Darren Anderton, Fox, Chris Armstrong etc! When we were a proper dross spursy side!
I'm not suggesting I'm high brow I'm saying I find it embarrassing that people go and sit in silence like Helen Keller!!!
Fuck off!
I remember growing up and seeing the likes of Darren Anderton, Fox, Chris Armstrong etc! When we were a proper dross spursy side!
I'm not suggesting I'm high brow I'm saying I find it embarrassing that people go and sit in silence like Helen Keller!!!
Completely agree. Even in the noisier parts of Europe, the hardcore supporters only take up one stand and the rest of the stadium is for families and normal fans. Truth of the matter is, 60-70% of fans only want to watch the game in silence unless it's a massive game. No problem with that, but like you say if the club let there be areas where people who want to can stand, swear, sing what they like and respond to the away fans without fear of being chucked out, and the families have their own stands to, then everyone gets what they want.
This is a subject I have posted on many times. The people that tend to sing come from a certain class, and that class isn't prevalent in the West stand, and unfortunately due to ticket prices, that class is disappearing from the game. Accompanied by political correctness and kick off times, the atmosphere will continue to die.
I have a cheese board at every game.
Aw, I dunno y'know...
I seem to remember 90 minutes of TOTAL BEDLAM!
(OK, not the example you were looking for...)
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I actually moaned a lot about them as the game was going on but it fell on deaf ears. Either they are too old to hear or just don't care.
Had a go at a few that left around 60 or so minutes and shouted they should have stayed at home and watched it on tv or give up your tickets to someone who will appreciate it a bit more.
I dunno I'm going off on one now and to be frank I'm fucked off!
Had a go at a few that left around 60 or so minutes and shouted they should have stayed at home and watched it on tv or give up your tickets to someone who will appreciate it a bit more.
I dunno I'm going off on one now and to be frank I'm fucked off!
Ha ha it's like saying "the people who shop in my local Iceland are so low brow....what can we do about it"
New to Spurs?
New to Spurs?
When he played!
Speaking of atmosphere. I've been to a lot of football grounds around the country and the worst atmosphere I've ever seen was at Reading. Their fans just don't sing at all. Norwich too was pretty bad but that was a long time ago. In Spain, Rayo Vallecano has awesome atmosphere because of the type of club they are (working class, very political) and their weird stadium (it has 3 sides and is very intimate).
A lot of the bad atmosphere in UK grounds is down to the stadium design. WHL is on the better end of the scale for intimacy. The old Dell was so crammed the players could feel the fans' breath on their necks. St. Mary's is a library.
Our new stadium design should make the most out of acoustics (or at least that's what they tell us). Imagine how rubbish the atmosphere would have been if we'd won the Olympic Stadium bid. Mark my words, that place will be a graveyard for West Ham and their fans will hate it. Ha ha ha!
A lot of the bad atmosphere in UK grounds is down to the stadium design. WHL is on the better end of the scale for intimacy. The old Dell was so crammed the players could feel the fans' breath on their necks. St. Mary's is a library.
Our new stadium design should make the most out of acoustics (or at least that's what they tell us). Imagine how rubbish the atmosphere would have been if we'd won the Olympic Stadium bid. Mark my words, that place will be a graveyard for West Ham and their fans will hate it. Ha ha ha!
The biggest threat to ANY atmosphere is nonchalance.
Many people (and not just from our club) have commented that the atmosphere was much better when the football wasn't!
I don't know or associate with MANY Chelsea fans, but of the few I do know, they are adamant that some of the best days - atmosphere wise - came in the Old 2nd Division.... I'm sure many Man City fans would know the feeling too!
Sadly, all the Sky money, and globalisation of the Premier League Brand has in no small part contributed to the dilution of atmosphere, due to it now being more akin to a fucking tourist attraction on a matchday!
No one bangs on about the 'cracking atmosphere' at Madam Tussaud's or The Tower of London, do they?
Many people (and not just from our club) have commented that the atmosphere was much better when the football wasn't!
I don't know or associate with MANY Chelsea fans, but of the few I do know, they are adamant that some of the best days - atmosphere wise - came in the Old 2nd Division.... I'm sure many Man City fans would know the feeling too!
Sadly, all the Sky money, and globalisation of the Premier League Brand has in no small part contributed to the dilution of atmosphere, due to it now being more akin to a fucking tourist attraction on a matchday!
No one bangs on about the 'cracking atmosphere' at Madam Tussaud's or The Tower of London, do they?
That's because people appreciated it back then. Now there seems to be such an air of entitlement amongst the fan base.
Was sat in the upper west stand this evening! I feel embarrassed, angry, saddened and bemused as to why the fuck do people not cheer, chant or sing for the team in that area of the ground! At one point during a small lull in the game I actually started yawning.
I tried to sing a few songs and chants in the hope someone else would join in but I got funny looks!
My question is how would you fix this very real problem?
I tried to sing a few songs and chants in the hope someone else would join in but I got funny looks!
My question is how would you fix this very real problem?