Atmosphere (again)

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"First and foremost, the players have got to give the fans something to shout about. That has to come first and for a long time the fans haven't had anything to shout about."
Shearer

Interesting to hear that.....some feel that the fans should lift the players, regardless of how cack they are playing, but Im with Alan on this one.

Decent football and effort gets people going.
 
sammyspurs said:
"First and foremost, the players have got to give the fans something to shout about. That has to come first and for a long time the fans haven't had anything to shout about."
Shearer

Interesting to hear that.....some feel that the fans should lift the players, regardless of how cack they are playing, but Im with Alan on this one.

Decent football and effort gets people going.
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Disagree...sort of gives credence to the saying ''you only sing when you're winning''. I understand you're talking about effort not necessarily results but I'm not talking about that saying literally.

I don't think fans should be quiet if the team is having a shocker. The opposite should happen in fact IMO.
 
SchmoodSpur said:
Disagree...sort of gives credence to the saying ''you only sing when you're winning''. I understand you're talking about effort not necessarily results but I'm not talking about that saying literally.

I don't think fans should be quiet if the team is having a shocker. The opposite should happen in fact IMO.
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I think there should always be noise at a football game. If the team is playing badly but trying, then keep supporting them. If they're really not trying, just sing songs about other things, which don't relate to an attempt to get the players going (e.g. sing songs about us the fans, about hating Woolwich etc). If their efforts are completely pathetic, then sing songs criticising them, or the manager, or the chairman. But sing something!
 
Point number 3 is going to be an interesting one.

palmers_green_yid said:
3. Violence at football to be given the same treatment by the law as it would if not committed in a football setting, such as down the pub.
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I know of someone who got 6 months in prison for throwing a bottle when when West Ham fronted Spurs.

:dempsey:

Agree on all points by the way. As you said not many if any will ever happen.
 
BushHillSpurs said:
Point number 3 is going to be an interesting one.



I know of someone who got 6 months in prison for throwing a bottle when when West Ham fronted Spurs.

:dempsey:

Agree on all points by the way. As you said not many if any will ever happen.
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It doesn't surprise me mate.

The fact of the matter is violence is no more dangerous or harmful at football than anywhere else. So it should be dealt with in the same way.

I actually can't see any of my points hurting the profits of the businesses in question or ruining the match day experience of the jcl's/corporates/quiet fans to a very large extent...and yet they still won't do it.
 
Was actually 27 months!

Also

xxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx - can be seen in the mobile phone footage trying to break off a young tree to use as a weapon.
TWO AND A HALF YEARS
 
palmers_green_yid said:
5. The Park Lane lower being a terrace devoted to hardcore fans, with subsidised tickets being available there, and a blind eye turned to offensive chanting, gestures etc in this section. Families and quiet fans should be discouraged from standing there.
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I don't think subsiding tickets in park lane would help as surely anyone would go for the cheaper tickets ?(More/same £ for better atmosphere and you know you would be with like minded people) Do this with paxton to encourage families to go to more football games.

Also giving away fans 10% thing let away fans have most of the west stand would improve atmosphere in general equally around the ground.
 
ScreaminNorman said:
I don't think subsiding tickets in park lane would help as surely anyone would go for the cheaper tickets ?(More/same £ for better atmosphere and you know you would be with like minded people) Do this with paxton to encourage families to go to more football games.

Also giving away fans 10% thing let away fans have most of the west stand would improve atmosphere in general equally around the ground.
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Interesting points. Maybe keep the prices for children the same for PLL, to keep them away? Do kids not already get something of a discount in the Paxton? I'm not sure we need more families to be honest, we need more 16-25 year olds as well as getting back older supporters who have become disillusioned/banned/priced out. Anyway, like I said people should be warned as to what certain areas of the ground are like so when they get there they can't complain about language, standing etc.
 
palmers_green_yid said:
Interesting about anti-state violence. I wasn't aware about much of that in Eastern Europe during the 80s and 90s, except for Solidarity which, as I understand, was made up of a lot of football lads and obviously led to the overthrowing of the Communist regime in Poland. I know of the overlap between politics (both left and right wing) and football in Italy, and how this used to pose a threat to the state. Presume that with the reference to England, you are talking about the NF infiltrating Chelsea, West Ham etc?
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Yeah that's what I meant. Also the unique case of Red Star Belgrade's firm as front line soldiers in the Yugoslavian conflict, though that was less like NF or any left wing groups in mainland Europe, but still anti-state (or against the state that existed at the time).

palmers_green_yid said:
It may have something to do with the punitive laws...I believe the state is more paranoid than we think. However, it's not a valid reason as no such link exists in this country at the moment, and the political organisations themselves could be dealt with if and when it did exist, if they were a legitimate threat to anyone. Also, I don't agree that football violence involves a very large number of people. In some ways it is harder to contain than a pub brawl, but in other ways it is easier as a police presence is generally already there or near. And gang violence is a much bigger problem and harder to contain IMO.
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It doesn't always, but it did in a lot of cases, especially involving England matches, which obviously reflects poorly on the country in the media. Another reason for the clampdown. I agree that gang violence is a bigger problem (especially here in the US) but I don't think the authorities in either country see it that way. Poor killing poor. No loss for them, perhaps even a net gain if a dependent is no longer on the books. An example close to me would be Chicago. Over 6,000 murders since 2001, mostly young poor black men. That's nearly as much as the US and UK have lost in Afghanistan and Iraq combined in that time period. They only care about the dead if it makes them look bad or threatens their jobs. That's what Hillsborough represented, so they overreacted. That's what large-scale football violence represented, a threat to their power. So they crushed it.

If it had stayed a localized thing in poor communities around the old football grounds they'd have let it continue, much as it did in the 60s and 70s.
 
I like the buying tickets on the day idea, it would encourage more spontaneous groups of supporters to go. Again it probably has to be the new stadium where this is tried. First off keep 5% or so of the capacity back for the day, then if successful 10%, etc.
 
1. Agree 100%, ticket prices are outrageous, there needs to be an upper limit for most sections of the ground, multi-buy deals, more family deals….not just for the select low category games, but all games.
2. Can’t see that ever happening – and I do think banning orders for certain incidents are correct.
3. Agree – Once again it smacks that these people who hand out the sentences think that football fans are seen as a separate breed to the rest of society, being linked to the hooligan days that really don’t exist anymore.
4. Needs to be done and seriously looked into. Things have moved on and there’s viable options available now to make standing safe, probably safer than having seats.
5. How can you ascertain who’s a “hardcore” fan…we’re all hard core in our own way, no? Agree certain sections should come with a warming that there’s a “no-hold barred” attitude towards the language used.
6. Agree
7. Drinking will never be allowed on the terraces again, that’s the law, it’ll never change
8. We’ll all be chanting Yid’s until we decide not to use it, no one can tell us we can’t
9. Yep, agree once again, and also have a price on these tickets capped
10. Changes to football itself:
Make the CL for the champions only. CL games on Tuesday nights. A straight knockout competition
UEFA Cup on Wednesday nights. Again a straight knockout competition. Top leagues should have 5 places, so from England those would be the teams finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and the winners of the league and FA Cups. Accordingly, there would be more Saturday 3pm kick offs, and more interest in the league and FA Cup.
Stricter rules on financial fair play.
A rule stating all clubs must have a quota of home grown players
Agree with all those points, except maybe the home grown quota……Assuming it’s to do with the national side……England have always been shit, no amount of home grown players will change that, no matter what people say. When was the last time England were any good? Protection of young players coming through, instead of being cast aside is the way forward. Structured progress through the clubs, wage caps until they are 18, no transfers for anyone under 18. That’s the way to get players through the academies and into the 1st teams.
 
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