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Reading the thread about the surfer flag, this is a list of 10 things which I think would really improve the atmosphere. Feel free to add or debate any of them. I am aware that very few, if any of these, would ever happen due to the various reasons that have caused football to become sanitised in the first place, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss this anyway. In no particular order:
1. A law being passed which states that professional football clubs must devote 1% of the total wage bill to subsidising ticket prices.
2. An end to football banning orders.
3. Violence at football to be given the same treatment by the law as it would if not committed in a football setting, such as down the pub.
4. Introduce safe standing areas.
5. The Park Lane lower being a terrace devoted to hardcore fans, with subsidised tickets being available there, and a blind eye turned to offensive chanting, gestures etc in this section. Families and quiet fans should be discouraged from standing there.
6. Let in ticker tape and flags of any size to the above area. Flags are created by the fans independently of the club and do not have to be vetted or endorsed by the club.
7. Better stocked, cheaper bars in the concourses. Let people drink on the Park Lane terrace.
8. An end to this whole farce about not being allowed to say YIDS. And not being allowed Star of David flags (as a side note, this latter point is surely something enforced by the club at the moment, not the law?)
9. Away fans given an allocation which is 10% of capacity, as in Germany
10. Changes to football itself:
Make the CL for the champions only. CL games on Tuesday nights. A straight knockout competition.
UEFA Cup on Wednesday nights. Again a straight knockout competition. Top leagues should have 5 places, so from England those would be the teams finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and the winners of the league and FA Cups. Accordingly, there would be more Saturday 3pm kick offs, and more interest in the league and FA Cup.
Stricter rules on financial fair play.
A rule stating all clubs must have a quota of home grown players.
1. A law being passed which states that professional football clubs must devote 1% of the total wage bill to subsidising ticket prices.
2. An end to football banning orders.
3. Violence at football to be given the same treatment by the law as it would if not committed in a football setting, such as down the pub.
4. Introduce safe standing areas.
5. The Park Lane lower being a terrace devoted to hardcore fans, with subsidised tickets being available there, and a blind eye turned to offensive chanting, gestures etc in this section. Families and quiet fans should be discouraged from standing there.
6. Let in ticker tape and flags of any size to the above area. Flags are created by the fans independently of the club and do not have to be vetted or endorsed by the club.
7. Better stocked, cheaper bars in the concourses. Let people drink on the Park Lane terrace.
8. An end to this whole farce about not being allowed to say YIDS. And not being allowed Star of David flags (as a side note, this latter point is surely something enforced by the club at the moment, not the law?)
9. Away fans given an allocation which is 10% of capacity, as in Germany
10. Changes to football itself:
Make the CL for the champions only. CL games on Tuesday nights. A straight knockout competition.
UEFA Cup on Wednesday nights. Again a straight knockout competition. Top leagues should have 5 places, so from England those would be the teams finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and the winners of the league and FA Cups. Accordingly, there would be more Saturday 3pm kick offs, and more interest in the league and FA Cup.
Stricter rules on financial fair play.
A rule stating all clubs must have a quota of home grown players.
Football is not like going to the theatre, it's tribal. When has football ever been a family orientated sport? Football was the sport for the working class. Not anymore.
Have a family stand, simple. How may families actually go to football? Once you're 14 you should be capable, and want to, go on your own with your pals.
There is always going to be swearing at football. The players do it too. Don't see nay fathers complaining to their respective teams that so and so swore and my kid heard/lip read it.
If you don't want to hear swearing, don't go to football.
The best point is 10.
That's what has fucked up football. I'd go as far as saying first 2 teams European Cup KO. That way 4th is not success. The next 3 Uefa Cup and make that KO. That way two of our top 4 teams, and others, will be in the Uefa cup. It will give it back some prestige. Same schedule.
Reintroduce the European Cup Winners cup and place for FA/League Cup winners. This would revitalise both domestic cups.
Nostalgiaize (my word).
Of course safe standing and for £10 per person. No under 18's.
Have a family stand, simple. How may families actually go to football? Once you're 14 you should be capable, and want to, go on your own with your pals.
There is always going to be swearing at football. The players do it too. Don't see nay fathers complaining to their respective teams that so and so swore and my kid heard/lip read it.
If you don't want to hear swearing, don't go to football.
The best point is 10.
That's what has fucked up football. I'd go as far as saying first 2 teams European Cup KO. That way 4th is not success. The next 3 Uefa Cup and make that KO. That way two of our top 4 teams, and others, will be in the Uefa cup. It will give it back some prestige. Same schedule.
Reintroduce the European Cup Winners cup and place for FA/League Cup winners. This would revitalise both domestic cups.
Nostalgiaize (my word).
Of course safe standing and for £10 per person. No under 18's.
A lot of old school chaps look down on 'barmies' but, like 57, i have a lot of respect for 1882 for at least trying to do something about the atmosphere rather than just moaning about how shit it is.
simple answer really is the atmospheres gone because the people who made the atmosphere have gone!
if not by there own means but by the clubs & authorities means... but those days will not return.
fair play to 1882 for doing what thay do, but football grounds have been sanitised & for atmosphere that's a killer..
anyone will tell you that the lane was always buzzing when there was a moodiness & hostility to it!. no other clubs fans liked coming here because of it...
if not by there own means but by the clubs & authorities means... but those days will not return.
fair play to 1882 for doing what thay do, but football grounds have been sanitised & for atmosphere that's a killer..
anyone will tell you that the lane was always buzzing when there was a moodiness & hostility to it!. no other clubs fans liked coming here because of it...
make people who wear replica shirts sit in the West Stand
trololol
trololol
Fair play mate, we will probably just have to agree to disagree. I think Campbell had it coming to him, though I disagree with the homophobia of the song. I don't think it's fair that loyal fans got banned for singing that song. I'd rather have a ground which is intimidating and maybe slightly more dangerous (for some games) and in which some people may take offence to songs, gestures etc...than one which is loud but more sanitised. But of course it's up to the individual and not everyone will agree with me.
Pisses me off so much when people complain about swearing at football, supposedly on behalf of children. I can remember when I was first going to football as an 8 year old kid and I loved the swearing, singing, drunkenness and seeing occasional violence!
Apparently we might be reduced to 3 teams in the CL soon, due to poor performance of English clubs in Europe. I think 3 is still too much, the obsession with it will remain and the UEFA Cup will still be regarded as shit. Reducing it to 1 or 2 teams would do the trick though.
I suppose we all want different things from football. IMO the moment we can sit in harmony drinking with Woolwich and Chelsea fans is the moment football is dead.
As for why it is like this...I think for one thing it is a more exciting game, fewer goals/points therefore a goal is more important, and faster than cricket (not sure if faster than rugby?, never watch it). But more importantly, I think football has always had the tradition of being a place you can go to, where the boundaries of acceptability are different from normal society. It probably has its roots in it being a working-class game, where people would come to let off steam after a hard week in the factory...whereas cricket and rugby are more middle-class games.
The difference is that pub fights or even gang violence is often localized and containable, whereas football violence is very threatening to the establishment because it happens anywhere and involves a very large number of people. I think part of the reason the government in the UK took such a strong stance in the 80s and 90s has a lot less to do with Hillsborough and a lot more to do with what they saw happening in Eastern Europe (and to an extent, England) at the time, i.e. football hooligans and political organizations mixing freely. Left and right. Often leading to anti-state violence. Can't have that now can we.
I'd love for the club to design the new stadium with an eye that one terrace could be converted to safe standing in the future. Or even build it with the safe standing rail seats in place, just permanently folded down until the day for action came. Our club would never be that aggressive about something like that though.
agree with 5, they should have warnings for people buying tickets in PLL or on the shelf, fairly certain I read about a bloke who complained that people were swearing around his young child in block 33.
have a good look who's sitting next to you next time your at football!
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The 'intimidation' argument is interesting, as surely, except for a handful of clubs where fans actually would consider running ONTO the pitch and doing a player actual physical harm, then the idea of an 'intimidating atmosphere' is purely suggestive, and more to do with creating enough noise to put a player off mentally... not actually FEAR for his own personal safety!
The sanitisation of football grounds in recent years has done my head in... NO ONE is saying that running onto the pitch to confront an opposing footballer is a good idea, neither is screaming ACTUAL racist/homophobic abuse (and I don't mean the nonsense that WE were accused of by West Ham fans)
...but from the 'relative anonymity' of your seat, or even better still standing area(!!) you could, and should be allowed to do anything within your power to put off the opposition. If that means banners of support, or loud, non-stop singing (whilst standing) then surely there is no harm in that.
It's when the authorities decide to take the easy route and lump EVERYTHING together by assuming that anyone who brings a banner in, or sings YID has a secret desire to run on the pitch and hit a player (except THIS GUY)
...and even he was ridiculed for it!
Of COURSE we don't want to do stoopid stuff like that, but what we DO want to do, is create a loud, rowdy (if you will) SUPPORTIVE noise, that shows OUR players we're on their side, and tells the opposition that they have 36,011 opponents to play against!
Seriously, where's the harm in that?
The sanitisation of football grounds in recent years has done my head in... NO ONE is saying that running onto the pitch to confront an opposing footballer is a good idea, neither is screaming ACTUAL racist/homophobic abuse (and I don't mean the nonsense that WE were accused of by West Ham fans)
...but from the 'relative anonymity' of your seat, or even better still standing area(!!) you could, and should be allowed to do anything within your power to put off the opposition. If that means banners of support, or loud, non-stop singing (whilst standing) then surely there is no harm in that.
It's when the authorities decide to take the easy route and lump EVERYTHING together by assuming that anyone who brings a banner in, or sings YID has a secret desire to run on the pitch and hit a player (except THIS GUY)
...and even he was ridiculed for it!
Of COURSE we don't want to do stoopid stuff like that, but what we DO want to do, is create a loud, rowdy (if you will) SUPPORTIVE noise, that shows OUR players we're on their side, and tells the opposition that they have 36,011 opponents to play against!
Seriously, where's the harm in that?
Safe standing would be a huge step forward with regards to atmosphere, however, making it over 18s only is a silly idea, I take my youngest sister (shes 16) and she loves the swearing and pure footballness of it. It's kind of the only way you can get away with shouting at the top of your voice thst Sol Campbell is a whatever and get away with it.
If you don't want your kids or relatives hearing swearing, watch the game on tv until they're old enough.
If you don't want your kids or relatives hearing swearing, watch the game on tv until they're old enough.
I do think that the season just gone has been the best for a long time, culminating in the Finale. The football wasn't half bad either 