Ange Postecoglou

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Mampi said:
Poch said he doesn't care about cups other than the Premier and Champions Leagues, so effectively threw them until he joined Chelsea - a club he believes they matter for more than us.
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No. He said the owners wanted to prioritise Champions League qualification and that he understood that.

Our owners have shown time and time again they don't prioritise silverware. Why are you so keen to defend this? Why are you pretending otherwise? Why are you burying your head in the sand and blaming the managers they appointed .

We haven't won a thing for over 16 fucking years despite hiring 10 different managers in the process

We even sacked a serial trophy winning manager 6 days before a cup final and replaced him with Ryan Mason FFS

You're in denial, my friend.
 
Mampi said:
I don't support the club because of cups we have won, speak for yourself.
If you supported Spurs to be a glory hunter - well you definitely picked the wrong club.

Also have plenty of life long memories from supporting Spurs that didn't include winning a cup final.
Personally I celebrated harder when we beat City and Ajax in the Champions League than our 2 most recent League Cup wins.

Other fans will tell you how important winning cups are because you have no comeback. It's all relative. City fans can barely be fucked to get their hands out of their pockets to celebrate domestic cup wins.
If we won either of the domestic cups, our fans wouldn't suddenly give a rendition of "for he's a jolly good fellow" to Levy.
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Seems like you care what other people and fans think about us a bit too much.
 
Mampi said:
That's the point. The quote you referenced was from Bill Nicholson saying something like, even in defeat there's and echo of glory.

Doesn't always work like that.
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Bill Nicholson also said that the game is about glory and the manner of victory in that it must be played with a flourish so that people don’t get bored!

Our greatest ever manager also hated to lose and anyone who played for us had to adopt that ethos!

“Any player coming to Spurs, whether he's a big signing or just a ground staff boy, must be dedicated to the game and to the club. He must never be satisfied with his last performance, and he must hate losing.”

— Bill Nicholson[8]

I disagree slightly with him on this though

“Nicholson has been credited with saying, 'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low.”

You succeed (win things) at all costs

Yes win playing well and entertaining your fans if you can but WIN!
 
Mampi said:
That's the point. The quote you referenced was from Bill Nicholson saying something like, even in defeat there's and echo of glory.

Doesn't always work like that.
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The plucky loser ideology you mean!

I can’t agree with that!
 
Bazali said:
Ok most football fans don’t remember losers!

The lazy ones accept defeat and then have the tea and sandwiches

The whole point of entering a competition in any sport is to win it which is why there is a trophy at the end of it

The crap that people like you support has permeated our schools for too long in that they discourage winners and encourage losers who just show up
Some don’t even give winners medals anymore and give anyone who competes the same ones in case feelings are hurt

All bollox imv

You play to win otherwise don’t bother
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Ahh so there's a distinct definition for me between being a competitor and a fan.

I'm fiercely competitive. Perhaps as a result of being 1 of 4 brothers but certainly refuse the idea that taking part should be recognised like winning. You got me very wrong there.
Finishing 2nd as a competitor was devastating for me. I would be obsessive about it and spend excessive time in practice. For team sports, I couldn't understand or tolerate being with team mates that would shrug off a defeat (especially in a final) trying to enjoy the fact we came 2nd. There's no consoling me as a competitor. I captained a football side that lost 4 cup finals in a row to the same opposition. It was a David vs Goliath matchup we never really had a chance in, but I will never forget not winning that cup, albeit youth level. In a different team game I would rather not disclose (to avoid mockery) I did become a world champion through this obsessive nature.
Individually, I played darts for a decade roughly at a decent level creeping towards winning my regional open competition. When I did eventually win it after being a failed, loser finalist on a few occasions - I pretty much gave up the game. It took me 6 hours after work every day & 10+ hours on weekends throwing non stop in the weeks leading up to the tournament, but that was my dedication to being a winner, a champion.

As a spectator or a fan I can't impact the result. You just sit there and yell at them to do better, meet your expectations - whereas I respect, acknowledge and remember many runner ups for their competitiveness, dedication and sportsmanship. Be it Jimmy White, Luke Littler, the 70s Dutch sides or plenty of others.
These sports are better for having these what you would call "losers". They all played to win, but didn't. To have not bothered because they didn't win would be a terrible shame for the competitive nature of sports.
It's like saying the 80 odd football league clubs that never have and never will win the Premier League should just fold as clubs and all their fans should migrate to support teams that are likely to win things.
Terrible attitude.

Football fans like to act as though their sides achievements and failures are their own. They are not.
 
Mampi said:
Yeah certainly wasn't an 'echo of glory' in our defeat yesterday or whatever the quote is.

But that will happen. I couldn't tell you if losing 2-0 at Old Trafford in 1961 had an echo of glory about it - but probably not.
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We agree 👍

Not!

Winning the double certainly had an echo of glory about it and that’s why I started supporting us aged 7

We were the best and proved it by winning the league trophy and the FA Cup trophy

Who finished second in the league that season?

No idea and who gives a toss?

That’s the difference!
 
Mampi said:
Ahh so there's a distinct definition for me between being a competitor and a fan.

I'm fiercely competitive. Perhaps as a result of being 1 of 4 brothers but certainly refuse the idea that taking part should be recognised like winning. You got me very wrong there.
Finishing 2nd as a competitor was devastating for me. I would be obsessive about it and spend excessive time in practice. For team sports, I couldn't understand or tolerate being with team mates that would shrug off a defeat (especially in a final) trying to enjoy the fact we came 2nd. There's no consoling me as a competitor. I captained a football side that lost 4 cup finals in a row to the same opposition. It was a David vs Goliath matchup we never really had a chance in, but I will never forget not winning that cup, albeit youth level. In a different team game I would rather not disclose (to avoid mockery) I did become a world champion through this obsessive nature.
Individually, I played darts for a decade roughly at a decent level creeping towards winning my regional open competition. When I did eventually win it after being a failed, loser finalist on a few occasions - I pretty much gave up the game. It took me 6 hours after work every day & 10+ hours on weekends throwing non stop in the weeks leading up to the tournament, but that was my dedication to being a winner, a champion.

As a spectator or a fan I can't impact the result. You just sit there and yell at them to do better, meet your expectations - whereas I respect, acknowledge and remember many runner ups for their competitiveness, dedication and sportsmanship. Be it Jimmy White, Luke Littler, the 70s Dutch sides or plenty of others.
These sports are better for having these what you would call "losers". They all played to win, but didn't. To have not bothered because they didn't win would be a terrible shame for the competitive nature of sports.
It's like saying the 80 odd football league clubs that never have and never will win the Premier League should just fold as clubs and all their fans should migrate to support teams that are likely to win things.
Terrible attitude.

Football fans like to act as though their sides achievements and failures are their own. They are not.
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Cook my friend.
 
Mampi said:
Ahh so there's a distinct definition for me between being a competitor and a fan.

I'm fiercely competitive. Perhaps as a result of being 1 of 4 brothers but certainly refuse the idea that taking part should be recognised like winning. You got me very wrong there.
Finishing 2nd as a competitor was devastating for me. I would be obsessive about it and spend excessive time in practice. For team sports, I couldn't understand or tolerate being with team mates that would shrug off a defeat (especially in a final) trying to enjoy the fact we came 2nd. There's no consoling me as a competitor. I captained a football side that lost 4 cup finals in a row to the same opposition. It was a David vs Goliath matchup we never really had a chance in, but I will never forget not winning that cup, albeit youth level. In a different team game I would rather not disclose (to avoid mockery) I did become a world champion through this obsessive nature.
Individually, I played darts for a decade roughly at a decent level creeping towards winning my regional open competition. When I did eventually win it after being a failed, loser finalist on a few occasions - I pretty much gave up the game. It took me 6 hours after work every day & 10+ hours on weekends throwing non stop in the weeks leading up to the tournament, but that was my dedication to being a winner, a champion.

As a spectator or a fan I can't impact the result. You just sit there and yell at them to do better, meet your expectations - whereas I respect, acknowledge and remember many runner ups for their competitiveness, dedication and sportsmanship. Be it Jimmy White, Luke Littler, the 70s Dutch sides or plenty of others.
These sports are better for having these what you would call "losers". They all played to win, but didn't. To have not bothered because they didn't win would be a terrible shame for the competitive nature of sports.
It's like saying the 80 odd football league clubs that never have and never will win the Premier League should just fold as clubs and all their fans should migrate to support teams that are likely to win things.
Terrible attitude.

Football fans like to act as though their sides achievements and failures are their own. They are not.
Click to expand...

But they are!

And that’s where we differ as the fans become part of it!
 
glacierSpurs said:
Just curious. Were you at the game and see that for yourself or you were watching the match on TV and it was an assumption? Because if it's the latter, I am not sure how we can know he did nothing when the camera didn't pan to him that often.

He doesn't seem to react because we all knew he's someone who's very calm and probably thinking hard inside on how to change things. I seriously don't think he doesn't communicate with the coaches or sub players before coming on what changes will be required that need him to be so animated.

Honestly also I am so tired at seeing Conte's and Mourinho's antics by the touchline that I am perfectly fine with Ange's zen approach. I just don't see the need for him to be gesturing frantically like the lego head to show he's doing something.
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Admittedly I wasn't at the match and was watching on TV, but I'm sure the cameras would've been on Ange at least once if he was getting animated on the touchline, especially the way the game was going.
I agree, I don't like the Conte, Klopp, Arteta antics either, they really wind me up, but there is a middle ground, and when the team are playing like they were yesterday, they need some in-game motivation or encouragement from the manager, I don't think that's unreasonable.
As for subs, he has made some that have changed games this season, but yesterday I think he left it too late, I think he should've made changes when we went 2 down and we needed a goal quickly to get back in the game.
 
John Thomas said:
No. He said the owners wanted to prioritise Champions League qualification and that he understood that.

Our owners have shown time and time again they don't prioritise silverware. Why are you so keen to defend this? Why are you pretending otherwise? Why are you burying your head in the sand and blaming the managers they appointed .

We haven't won a thing for over 16 fucking years despite hiring 10 different managers in the process

We even sacked a serial trophy winning manager 6 days before a cup final and replaced him with Ryan Mason FFS

You're in denial, my friend.
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"Our objective is to win the Premier League and our objective is to try to win the Champions League -- for me, the two real trophies"

"But if you want to be a big team, if you want to fight for big things, I think it's impossible if you don't use all the squad and rotate in England. It's impossible."

"You can criticise me, and people can criticise our performance, but the manager always wants to win. And of course, to win the Carabao Cup will not change the life of Tottenham
"We are going to create a debate that to win a trophy is going to help the club, I don’t agree with that. That only builds your ego. In reality the most important thing is being consistently in the top four and playing in the Champions League. That is going to help the club to achieve the last step."


I know what the owners want, but this was talking about what Poch wanted and prioritised.
There are quotes where Poch talks about the owners preferring top 4 ahead of a League Cup with a 10th placed finish, but these are quotes about what he wanted and prioritised.
 
Bazali said:
Bill Nicholson also said that the game is about glory and the manner of victory in that it must be played with a flourish so that people don’t get bored!

Our greatest ever manager also hated to lose and anyone who played for us had to adopt that ethos!

“Any player coming to Spurs, whether he's a big signing or just a ground staff boy, must be dedicated to the game and to the club. He must never be satisfied with his last performance, and he must hate losing.”

— Bill Nicholson[8]

I disagree slightly with him on this though

“Nicholson has been credited with saying, 'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low.”

You succeed (win things) at all costs

Yes win playing well and entertaining your fans if you can but WIN!
Click to expand...
I read Bill's autobiography years ago, he did say that, one of his disappointments was that the team didn't always play the beautiful football in finals.
But they managed to get, results over the line and be successful.
I have never been that bothered about entertaining football as a priority, even if we ground and pounded our way to victory in finals that would not bother me.
Winning first entertainment second, Ange ball, has had moments but, we are so exposed and at times a mess.
 
Bazali said:
But they are!

And that’s where we differ as the fans become part of it!
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Ok so you believe the teams achievements and failures are those of the fans too - where I absolutely do not think that. But that's fine to disagree.

What I would then ask is do you think our fans are befitting of silverware ahead of other clubs fans?

I would say our fans are often diabolical. Quick to turn, groan, boo, complain, slag the team off. Perhaps our fans don't deserve to win anything which is why the team don't?
They turn up to the stadium with the expectation of rolling over Wolves or Villa and merely cheer the goals in those non category A games.

Maybe the fans should look at themselves for our lack of silverware too if they're in any way responsible, as I often feel in 10+ home games per season our fans don't deserve the win. Can only get themselves vocal for the bigger games.
 
Bazali said:
Bill Nicholson also said that the game is about glory and the manner of victory in that it must be played with a flourish so that people don’t get bored!

Our greatest ever manager also hated to lose and anyone who played for us had to adopt that ethos!

“Any player coming to Spurs, whether he's a big signing or just a ground staff boy, must be dedicated to the game and to the club. He must never be satisfied with his last performance, and he must hate losing.”

— Bill Nicholson[8]

I disagree slightly with him on this though

“Nicholson has been credited with saying, 'It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low.”

You succeed (win things) at all costs

Yes win playing well and entertaining your fans if you can but WIN!
Click to expand...
I agree with most of what you say, but I think Bill Nick realised that you are not going to win EVERY game, so he meant if you do lose make sure it's by trying to win in the right way, not boring the opposition to death!
I think that's also part of a quote from Danny Blanchflower?
 
Mampi said:
Son could've scored, Maddison should have scored, Werner should have scored, Richarlison could've scored.

It wasn't about Fulham having some kind of elite physicality we couldn't deal with. We didn't take our chances, they took most of theirs and also got lucky with a couple.

You never need to Duncan Ferguson opposition centre halves to win a game. Had we taken ours and had some more fortune, these bullshit narratives wouldn't be happening.
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there was only ever one winner in that game. this isnt the first time weve just been overpowered due to having a powder puff front 3. everyone misses chances, its more about how it lets the other team get momentum and a foothold on us. having a powder puff front 3 will cause this a lot.
 
Play attacking high line football.. & getting mediocre result = the end of Ange

Play mediocre football & winning all the time = . . . .?
 
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