Ange Postecoglou

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His successes are downplayed due to the quality of the leagues he's managed in. But when a counterexample is provided to show that he can actually do alright against one of the best teams in the world given the quality that he has, that doesn't count either.

He's just gotten here and he's done alright so far. He's already started to implement a good style of play that we've been crying out for in a short space of time.

It's still early days and he still has a lot of work to do to prove that he belongs here, but he's showing signs of being a decent coach at a high level.

Losing 8-1 on aggregate is objectively not doing alright by any stretch of the definition of alright.

Celtic have had much, much better results/performances in their home stadium over the years in Europe than getting spanked but having periods of good play.

I recognise the context that his teams doing we were at a lower level, but he still managed to consistently get them to play a certain type of football that we all like. He can obviously coach. That matters.

I’ve also been impressed by early signs. I do think he’s doing well. I just think the desperate reaching that losing 3-0 at home is some big achievement if you have decent periods of the game is silly. The counter-example here is rubbish.

Madrid lost at home to Sheriff in the CL groups the year before that. Sheriff had more shots & more shots on target than Celtic did in losing 3-0.

TL;DR finishing bottom of a group stage on 2 whole points is not good evidence to back up a manager you like. Even if they played well at times.
 
If you read the youtube comments on that presser, the vast majority aren't even Spurs fans.

Youd think he’s already won the quadruple the way some are carrying on. Proper bizarre. Its a bit embarrassing.

Slow your road, calm down a bit and get our heads down. Its gunna be a long fucking season.

YouTube comments iz lyfe!!! :roflmao:
 
I think he had something like 2% in the Fighting Cock manager poll before it became apparent he was gonna be appointed 😆
I was one of the 2 percent. Just saying.

You know when you find out about a song before it gets popular and get kinda annoyed that everyone else likes it now? That's me right now.

Which is why I'm looking forward to the first battering we'll get. To filter out the weak ones who are only behind him when we're playing well.
 
The first one is for Sky and internet reporters, the second embargoed one is for the next day's papers and the video can't be released until they're published...

Ah, never heard that before....... I got bored with pressers (for the most part) when Poch started mumbling.
 
I was one of the 2 percent. Just saying.

You know when you find out about a song before it gets popular and get kinda annoyed that everyone else likes it now? That's me right now.

Which is why I'm looking forward to the first battering we'll get. To filter out the weak ones who are only behind him when we're playing well.

I'd rather we didn't take a battering.
 
Losing 8-1 on aggregate is objectively not doing alright by any stretch of the definition of alright.

Celtic have had much, much better results/performances in their home stadium over the years in Europe than getting spanked but having periods of good play.

I recognise the context that his teams doing we were at a lower level, but he still managed to consistently get them to play a certain type of football that we all like. He can obviously coach. That matters.

I’ve also been impressed by early signs. I do think he’s doing well. I just think the desperate reaching that losing 3-0 at home is some big achievement if you have decent periods of the game is silly. The counter-example here is rubbish.

Madrid lost at home to Sheriff in the CL groups the year before that. Sheriff had more shots & more shots on target than Celtic did in losing 3-0.

TL;DR finishing bottom of a group stage on 2 whole points is not good evidence to back up a manager you like. Even if they played well at times.
And I agree with that, but the Madrid game is just one bit of evidence. I liked the way he plays and how he came across in past interviews when he was at Celtic. It felt like a good fit for me.

Obviously one half of football isn't enough but it isn't nothing either. I only bring it up when people say that he can only do it in Scotland, even though it is a very small sample size.

Remember when Woolwich lost to city but their fans wouldn't shut the fuck up about how they pressed them for 20 minutes? It's sort of like that, and it does seem that they were somewhat vindicated last season. So it shouldn't be the one thing to hang onto, but I don't think it should be completely dismissed either.
 
At any rate, context matters. In Champion's League terms, Celtic are a very poor side, yet largely because of Ange's system they were able to create more chances against Real Madrid in both the home and away games than anybody else up until Madrid were knocked out by City.
Right, let’s consider that Celtic creating chances against a superior Real Madrid is some sort of achievement, and tbh I don’t even pretend I expected Celtic to get anything from those two games.

Now since you mention context, you seem to ignore or forget that Celtic got only two points in four games against Leipzig and Shakhtar. I don’t know if that’s impressive to you, but to me it isn’t. Rangers’ EL campaign when they reached the final is more impressive than Celtic’s UCL campaign.

It’s funny because a couple of years ago when we were linked with ten Hag, some people here (you know who you are) had doubts over ETH’s ability to manage outside Netherlands, farmers league and all that, but when people pointed at Ajax’s impressive run in the Champions League (and THAT was impressive), they were rather quick to dismiss it. But now they’re embracing a good 60 mins against Real Madrid as argument that another manager can hack it outside a farmers league.
 
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Right, let’s consider that Celtic creating chances against a superior Real Madrid is some sort of achievement, and tbh I don’t even pretend I expected Celtic to get anything from those two games.

Now since you mention context, you seem to ignore or forget that Celtic got only two points in four games against Leipzig and Shakhtar. I don’t know if that’s impressive to you, but to me it isn’t. Rangers’ EL campaign when they reached the final is more impressive than Celtic’s UCL campaign.

It’s funny because a couple of years ago when we were linked with ten Hag, some people here (you know who you are) had doubts over ETH’s ability to manage outside Netherlands, farmers league and all that, but when people pointed at Ajax’s impressive run in the Champions League, they were quick to dismiss it. But now they’re embracing a good 60 mins against Real Madrid as argument that another manager can hack it outside a farmers league.

I would expect Liepzig to batter Celtic home and away..
Probably Shaktah to beat them more often than not too.

Personally, I put more stock in Ange raising his Aus & Japanese clubs 4 , 5, 6 places in the table to victory than I do him steadying the Celtic ship.
 
I would expect Liepzig to batter Celtic home and away..
Probably Shaktah to beat them more often than not too.

Personally, I put more stock in Ange raising his Aus & Japanese clubs 4 , 5, 6 places in the table to victory than I do him steadying the Celtic ship.
With Roar and Yokohama, it was more like 5-10 places.
 
Losing 8-1 on aggregate is objectively not doing alright by any stretch of the definition of alright.

Celtic have had much, much better results/performances in their home stadium over the years in Europe than getting spanked but having periods of good play.

I recognise the context that his teams doing we were at a lower level, but he still managed to consistently get them to play a certain type of football that we all like. He can obviously coach. That matters.

I’ve also been impressed by early signs. I do think he’s doing well. I just think the desperate reaching that losing 3-0 at home is some big achievement if you have decent periods of the game is silly. The counter-example here is rubbish.

Madrid lost at home to Sheriff in the CL groups the year before that. Sheriff had more shots & more shots on target than Celtic did in losing 3-0.

TL;DR finishing bottom of a group stage on 2 whole points is not good evidence to back up a manager you like. Even if they played well at times.
Have you ever watched your team play and thought they were really good despite a defeat?

I suspect we all have, and whilst ultimately it goes down as a failure to win or to get something out of a match when you perhaps should have, there can still be an overriding sense of being on the right track.

This was how I and other Celtic supporters felt after the Madrid game, after which Postecoglou's name was sung by all four corners of the stadium. Cheering defeat isn't a common occurrence at Celtic Park, no matter the opponent.

I think the main reason people were disappointed he left was that they wanted him to have one more crack at Europe. That wouldn't have been the case if the signs weren't there resulting in a genuine expectation that we could make more of an impact under him given the experience gained in the previous campaign.

I've seen Celtic beat Pep's Barcelona side at the height of their dominance. Was that an amazing victory? Of course. It was also exceedingly lucky.

I've also seen Celtic get pumped by PSG under Rodgers 7-1 and 5-0, where they had sweet FA of the ball or shots on goal. What I hadn't seen before was a Celtic side genuinely take the game to one of the best couple teams in the world, pressing them high, matching them for possession, bettering them for goal-scoring chances. It's all woulda coulda shoulda, but take one or two of those early chances and it's quite possibly a different result.

Do I think any of that is particularly relevant to how Postecoglou will do here? Not really. But I do believe the context and underlying metrics of his European campaigns are important in assessing how well he managed the team, and worth pointing out when facile 'they finished bottom of their group so he's shit' oversimplifications are rolled out.
 
Then you have shit expectations.
Leipzig have several players costing north of 20, 25 million euros. The wages they pay are on a completely different level to Celtic. They finished 3rd in one of the top few leagues in the world, whereas Celtic compete weekly against Livingston and Ross County. Of course Leipzig should be expected to win those games, only an imbecile would think otherwise.

Shakhtar is a closer run thing, and truthfully Celtic should have won both of those games. It was poor that they didn't, especially the away game based on how dominant they were. But it's worth remembering that Shakhtar at that time had Mudryk, who is arguably worth more alone than Celtic's entire first 11 is. Scoring in both matches, his quality (relative to Celtic) turned out to be the difference between drawing and winning those games.
 
I am curious John. Straight up question.

What was it about Ange's presser that ticked you off ? The fact that he engaged them and didn't demean his employer after 1 game in charge ? The fact that he played the press to avoid scrutiny on players ?

This forum will show I have been in the Enic out camp for some time. Where you don't do yourself a favour is inflating every event to suit the Enic out agenda.

The managers presser was refreshing. By all accounts and the laughter in the room, even the journos enjoyed it.

What part of the presser formed your opinion that he is just a mouthpiece for Enic?

Im as pissed off as most here with the state of affairs over the past years, and have vented my angst at Levy. However you seem to want to inject Levy / Enic into everywhere, whether or not there is correlation.

Seems to me, you watched the presser looking for validation of your views, when in fact, it was just a press conference.

Are you replying to the wrong poster? I think you've perhaps mistaken me (Joan*) for someone else

The only remark I made about his press conference was a light hearted take on his pint of milk / loaf of bread analogy .

No worries if so though, mate. We've all done it :dierpochhug:
 
Right, let’s consider that Celtic creating chances against a superior Real Madrid is some sort of achievement, and tbh I don’t even pretend I expected Celtic to get anything from those two games.

Now since you mention context, you seem to ignore or forget that Celtic got only two points in four games against Leipzig and Shakhtar. I don’t know if that’s impressive to you, but to me it isn’t. Rangers’ EL campaign when they reached the final is more impressive than Celtic’s UCL campaign.

It’s funny because a couple of years ago when we were linked with ten Hag, some people here (you know who you are) had doubts over ETH’s ability to manage outside Netherlands, farmers league and all that, but when people pointed at Ajax’s impressive run in the Champions League (and THAT was impressive), they were rather quick to dismiss it. But now they’re embracing a good 60 mins against Real Madrid as argument that another manager can hack it outside a farmers league.
I think it's fair to say that Celtic's UCL campaign was a massive disappointment. I don't think anybody would say that 2 points from the group is any sort of achievement.

With that out of the way, where the context comes in is that those results were chiefly down to two things: failing to take chances created and being too open defensively, especially on the counter against teams who can punish you.

Celtic created more chances than PSG did during the group stage of that competition. That's a fact. They also failed to convert hardly any of those chances, which whilst in part can be put down to luck, is mainly down to the quality of player Postecoglou had at his disposal.

Defensively, they were too often exposed, which I think is a combination of Ange's system and again, the players at his disposal.

With regards to Rangers reaching the EL final, Celtic actually had more group stage points than Rangers in that competition, but missed out on progressing by virtue of finishing 3rd in a tougher, more competitive group. Who's to say that if they'd been drawn in Ranger's soft-touch group of babies, they wouldn't have gone on a similar run? But that's obviously speculation and neither here not there.

Incidentally, Ange's World Cup with Australia followed a similar pattern to his UCL with Celtic. Drawn in a rough group with Spain, Holland and Bielsa's Chile, they acquitted themselves really well in terms of performance, but ultimately finished bottom of the group. Expected, yet disappointing given the football they played.

So I think what he's consistently shown is that he can coach a team of players to compete with better opposition, but whether down to the players available to him or flaws inherent in his system, hasn't been able to make the impact he's flirted with, unlike say an ETH at Ajax.

Player quality has played a big part previously, which is one reason why it's going to be fascinating to see whether Ange can turn those promising performances against superior opposition into consistent wins now that he's working with a higher quality of player himself. Let's hope that's the case, starting today.
 
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He’s giving us our Tottenham back.

Last season no matter the result the football was shit.

Now, no matter the result he’s trying to entertain. And that’s a big part of it.

We pay our money to watch on TV or in the ground. If you can enjoy the content you won’t see it as a waste of money.

Big Ange!
 
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