100% Angeball, or adapt during the game? Which are you?

[Tottenham Sean]

I still have faith in Angeball in principle,but it needs tweeking.We need to be able to defend a lead.


Though i think the real problem is tha lack of blue shorts on the home kit...

 

[TravellerOfBoth]

The issue we have right now is that the characterization of our football being "all out attack but very naive" is a kind representation of much of our football from these last few months. We're more often that not, completely un-electric in an attacking sense. We verge on the slow and ponderous. All the while, giving up chances on the regular.

When neutrals and pundits say that Tottenham are a good watch, I probably believe them in regards to their perspective. However, from the perspective of a Tottenham fan, the fiddling about, predictability of our attacking patterns and just complete impotence at times means I'm not entertained or excited by us for most of the time now. It's just tedious.

However, I can't forget the football we played in those first few months. We have to believe/hope, that this is currently a hump to get over for the manager, and with the right summer, next season we can have a better version of those first few months.

 

[Starks]

for me Angeball seems to work against teams that want to play football and have a go themselves or utterly dreadful teams like most teams in Scotland. It doesn't work against teams who put 10 men behind the ball. We have no proper centre forward so the ball wont stick. We are so open at times its crazy. A bit more defensive cover and we don't ship 4 goals against Newcastle. For me its 'horses for courses' maybe then Newcastle would have come out and attacked themselves rather than waiting for us to give them the ball.

But it has mostly worked against teams who put 10 men behind the ball...

Here are the games we've dropped points in this season :

Brentford (A) - 2-2
Woolwich (A) - 2-2
Chelsea (H) - 4-1
Wolves (A) - 2-1
Aston Villa (H) - 2-1
Man City (A) - 3-3
West Ham (H) - 2-1
Brighton (A) - 4-2
Man Utd (H) - 2-2
Everton (A) - 2-2
Wolves (H) 2-1
Fulham (A) - 3-0
West Ham (A) - 1-1
Newcastle (A) - 4-0


I'd argue the ones highlighted in green are the only games we dropped points in where the opponents specifically chose to sit in a low block and counter. You could potentially argue Wolves and Everton away but I don't think they were tbh, they were both better on the day and tbh, we were minutes away from picking up 6 points from both of those games too.

So out of the 32 games played this season. And the numerous games where teams have decided to sit back. We've dropped points due to it in 4 of them.

Does our football suffer when we come across low blocking teams? Absolutely. But you'd be hard pressed to find any team that looks entertaining knocking the ball around trying to beat a low block team. City certainly didn't look exciting whenever they came against us under Mourinho or Conte.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Even Man City take the ball to the corner in injury time if they are winning. That’s all I’ll say.

 

[Airfixx]

Even Man City take the ball to the corner in injury time if they are winning. That’s all I’ll say.

Which game was that a factor in?

Wolves away was a late winner, but we were uncharacteristically negative in that game.


Everton away is the only 1 I can think of.

 

[TottsAmazeballs]

I still have faith in Angeball in principle,but it needs tweaking twerking. We need to be able to defend a lead.

Agreed. We need to know when to back that shit up.

 

[Archie]

But it has mostly worked against teams who put 10 men behind the ball...

Here are the games we've dropped points in this season :

Brentford (A) - 2-2
Woolwich (A) - 2-2
Chelsea (H) - 4-1
Wolves (A) - 2-1
Aston Villa (H) - 2-1
Man City (A) - 3-3
West Ham (H) - 2-1
Brighton (A) - 4-2
Man Utd (H) - 2-2
Everton (A) - 2-2
Wolves (H) 2-1
Fulham (A) - 3-0
West Ham (A) - 1-1
Newcastle (A) - 4-0


I'd argue the ones highlighted in green are the only games we dropped points in where the opponents specifically chose to sit in a low block and counter. You could potentially argue Wolves and Everton away but I don't think they were tbh, they were both better on the day and tbh, we were minutes away from picking up 6 points from both of those games too.

So out of the 32 games played this season. And the numerous games where teams have decided to sit back. We've dropped points due to it in 4 of them.

Does our football suffer when we come across low blocking teams? Absolutely. But you'd be hard pressed to find any team that looks entertaining knocking the ball around trying to beat a low block team. City certainly didn't look exciting whenever they came against us under Mourinho or Conte.

I think Tottenham under Ange have been worked out. Which means it's not working now. I just don't want to see us get taken apart by the goons and Chelsea. I can see it happening

 

[simon j]

I think more Ange ball!! More more more!!
But faster. Maybe it’s down to personnel, do we need faster attackers?
If we stop with the slow pondering shit and try faster attacks… with lord forbid a few shots from outside the box we can beat most teams…
The only thing I think that concerns me is that we have a lot of players who don’t seem to want to win their 50/50’s. Desire beats skill in this league 95 times out of 100.

 

[Spaniel]

I think more Ange ball!! More more more!!
But faster. Maybe it’s down to personnel, do we need faster attackers?
If we stop with the slow pondering shit and try faster attacks… with lord forbid a few shots from outside the box we can beat most teams…
The only thing I think that concerns me is that we have a lot of players who don’t seem to want to win their 50/50’s. Desire beats skill in this league 95 times out of 100.

Angeball without a real striker won't work. Plus he has to do something in defense. We're wide open atm...he must show a little flexibility because we're becoming very predictable.

 

[Richard Arlison]

Ange ball does adapt during the game so I'm both and this thread is fucking pointless.

 

[Starks]

I think Tottenham under Ange have been worked out. Which means it's not working now. I just don't want to see us get taken apart by the goons and Chelsea. I can see it happening

Worked out in what way?

You just said it doesn't work against teams that sit back against us... When I've just given you proof that it does in fact work against teams that sit back against us.

In fact, it's one of the worst things you can do against us. Sure, you'll make the game pretty boring by stopping us playing the way we want to play, but most of the time we'll find a way to win anyway.

Newcastle didn't sit back against us. Fulham didnt. Brighton didn't... And those were the heaviest defeats.

 

[Nuts]

Thinking of joining SpiderSpurs on this one.

 

[Skippa18]

But it has mostly worked against teams who put 10 men behind the ball...

Here are the games we've dropped points in this season :

Brentford (A) - 2-2
Woolwich (A) - 2-2
Chelsea (H) - 4-1
Wolves (A) - 2-1
Aston Villa (H) - 2-1
Man City (A) - 3-3
West Ham (H) - 2-1
Brighton (A) - 4-2
Man Utd (H) - 2-2
Everton (A) - 2-2
Wolves (H) 2-1
Fulham (A) - 3-0
West Ham (A) - 1-1
Newcastle (A) - 4-0


I'd argue the ones highlighted in green are the only games we dropped points in where the opponents specifically chose to sit in a low block and counter. You could potentially argue Wolves and Everton away but I don't think they were tbh, they were both better on the day and tbh, we were minutes away from picking up 6 points from both of those games too.

So out of the 32 games played this season. And the numerous games where teams have decided to sit back. We've dropped points due to it in 4 of them.

Does our football suffer when we come across low blocking teams? Absolutely. But you'd be hard pressed to find any team that looks entertaining knocking the ball around trying to beat a low block team. City certainly didn't look exciting whenever they came against us under Mourinho or Conte.

Fine margins in football.

a good few of them games we let slip away. Some we just didn't turn up.

We improve even slightly and it's 10 extra points

 

[Archie]

Worked out in what way?

You just said it doesn't work against teams that sit back against us... When I've just given you proof that it does in fact work against teams that sit back against us.

In fact, it's one of the worst things you can do against us. Sure, you'll make the game pretty boring by stopping us playing the way we want to play, but most of the time we'll find a way to win anyway.

Newcastle didn't sit back against us. Fulham didnt. Brighton didn't... And those were the heaviest defeats.

Newcastle had 6 back most of the time, watching us pass ball left to right until we made a mistake then they pounced. Newcastle had 4 players in attacking positions at all times. It worked earlier in the season but, I just think opponents are wise to it.

 

[TonySoprano]

I think the poll needs other options. It’s not either Angeball or defensive.

There is a middle ground that most top teams are in. It used to be called game intelligence, I’m sure there is a modern term for it.

 

[Starks]

Newcastle had 6 back most of the time, watching us pass ball left to right until we made a mistake then they pounced. Newcastle had 4 players in attacking positions at all times. It worked earlier in the season but, I just think opponents are wise to it.

That's not them sitting back though. They had 18 shots at our goal... 16 corners... Marginally different in their approach to say a Luton, Forest or Palace who sat back and just let us win.

I think opponents are more aware of our deficiencies in personnel, not exactly the system. They know Son can't hold the ball up, so press him. They know Johnson and Werner aren't the best at retention. If you can win it back quick off them, you've got the ball, you've got the chances. And that was our downfall against Newcastle. Not the way we defend (bar set pieces), not the way our full backs are lined up.

Yet here we are. Game in hand to go 4th. One of the best attacking records in the league and on the cusp of playing European football again. We'll be alright.

Just got to make sure we continue doing as well as we have in the transfer windows and continue the upward trajectory.

 

[Deuterz]

I think the poll needs other options. It’s not either Angeball or defensive.

There is a middle ground that most top teams are in. It used to be called game intelligence, I’m sure there is a modern term for it.

Yeah its weird. Most elite teams are adaptable. Including Pep's City - he's altered his side to be much more robust to reflect modern football, with lots of athletes. He used to be all about the techno-midgets and possession only. His City team have had many evolutions, they're very different from the Sane & Sterling side as well.

And Pep is very happy to utilise lots of central defenders and make games a bore-fest, his City team are very low risk. Look at how Emery manages his team. People act like being modern/progressive is about very high lines and risk vs reward only but it isn't. Even Klopp realised the hell for leather approach was exhausting across a season and his best sides became much better at ball retention.

 

[justin]

No idea what these ridiculous descriptions are. Angeball ? Conteball ? Fucking Alan Ball.

All I'm seeing is Fuck all to be honest

 

[Kekerinho]

Half the goals from open play at the weekend were because Son couldn't hold the ball up. That's nothing to do with our defence. The other a set piece, which needs addressing far more than our defensive shape.

Yeah sure, it had nothing to do with Newcastle attacking players matching our defenders number and winning their 1v1…?

 

[John Thomas]

The results of this poll are fucking staggering. Embarrassingly so.