Levy / ENIC

[John Thomas]

Right , so you’re saying that a statement made by the club , given to all media outlets & could be produced in a court of law , is telling fibs in order to flash our knickers at the NFL ?

A statement regarding a billion pound project was so loose in its wording that it chucked in a property term that only has one meaning …… but
didn’t mean it ?

 

[Murphy]

I appreciate what they are trying to do, but the ENIC PR team will be all over this fluffing it up with utter BS.
There will be no honesty from them whatsoever, don't think they know how.

Something something, investment, ambition, academy, fast, free-flowing and attacking football, maximising potential of the expensively assembled squad utilising the world class facilities and stadium.

 

[Spursidol]

Right , so you’re saying that a statement made by the club , given to all media outlets & could be produced in a court of law , is telling fibs in order to flash our knickers at the NFL ?

A statement regarding a billion pound project was so loose in its wording that it chucked in a property term that only has one meaning …… but
didn’t mean it ? I’m mean to be honest , nothing would surprise me with ENIC but these are planned , purposely crafted statements.

I’ve been also looking into the guarantors of our debt , presuming it’s Tavistock / ENIC whoever but it’s very elusive. it appears to state that we alone are responsible for it , yet the word tenants is used ?!

I find that fishy

If I'm looking for a correct legal definition I don't take a PR statement/news release as being 100% legally correct - contracts drawn up by lawyers will/should always be correct. So yes your 'flashing knickers' statement might not be too far off correct.

A news release would never be relied upon in court, so not sure your statement is worthwhile

I've never seen the bond documentation (ie contract) but do not think enic or Tavistock or any 3rd party is a guarantor - most bonds issued are not guaranteed so that's not unusual. Bonds are very different to a bank loan

The word tenant is used in property law to mean lessee - I'd need to see the precise sentence but it might make sense if the word is used for Spurs (the club) whereas the owner of the stadium is a separate subsidiary of Tottenham Hotspur Ltd (the holding company owning Spurs and various property companies). But as I say without seeing the legal documentation it refers to I cannot be certain (BTW I am not a lawyer but have picked up a lot of law over the years)

 

[Matt1882]

The clubs response

 

[Ionman34]

Yeah, people lament the Glazers etc but if the stadium was built and uses Spurs revenue to fund, but ENIC creams the revenue and profit from other functions then is it not the same?

Side load the debt into the football side?

The stadium was supposed to make us compete. Levy/ENIC's words. We are further away from competing than we were under Poch.

Are they creaming off those profits?

The stadium is owned by THFC, it was my understanding that ALL profits, whether from Football or sundry other entertainments hosted there, go back to the club.

 

[Furball man]

If I'm looking for a correct legal definition I don't take a PR statement/news release as being 100% legally correct - contracts drawn up by lawyers will/should always be correct. So yes your 'flashing knickers' statement might not be too far off correct.

A news release would never be relied upon in court, so not sure your statement is worthwhile

I've never seen the bond documentation (ie contract) but do not think enic or Tavistock or any 3rd party is a guarantor - most bonds issued are not guaranteed so that's not unusual. Bonds are very different to a bank loan

The word tenant is used in property law to mean lessee - I'd need to see the precise sentence but it might make sense if the word is used for Spurs (the club) whereas the owner of the stadium is a separate subsidiary of Tottenham Hotspur Ltd (the holding company owning Spurs and various property companies). But as I say without seeing the legal documentation it refers to I cannot be certain (BTW I am not a lawyer but have picked up a lot of law over the years)

I posted it a few posts up

Lessee means tenant .

There are lots of satellite companies surrounding THFC , , the majority are property based , such as Canvax Ltd , Greenbay Properties , Pacton17 Ltd

Go on company house & check their filing history, if you’re interested

If the debt is ours why use tenant ? You know levy knows what he’s doing regarding real estate & you also know he signed off the build & decided to make it an entertainment centre complete with nfl pitch & the tallest climbing frames in the galaxy , yet no guarantor of it?

Did you ask for it ? I didn’t .

I mean I get having other uses for a huge state of the art building but we can’t seem to do that right either …. One gig up until July ? Stadium bands book months , years in advance , it’s not an improv gig in a pub . We’ve got one on the books

 

[Ionman34]

Imagine if we did what Liverpool did and simply expanded on what we had.
No doubt an apologist will try to explain that we couldn't do that because of the lack of space, whilst totally ignoring the fact a 63k seat sports arena currently sits almost exactly where the old one did.

So, in other words, it got expanded.

Rebuild of an existing site, to be used for the same purpose the original site was used for along with additional use, is basically expansion.

 

[Zomb]

I posted it a few posts up

Lessee means tenant .

There are lots of satellite companies surrounding THFC , , the majority are property based , such as Canvax Ltd , Greenbay Properties , Pacton17 Ltd

Go on company house & check their filing history, if you’re interested

If the debt is ours why use tenant ? You know levy knows what he’s doing regarding real estate & you also know he signed off the build & decided to make it an entertainment centre complete with nfl pitch & the tallest climbing frames in the galaxy , yet no guarantor of it?

Did you ask for it ? I didn’t .

I mean I get having other uses for a huge state of the art building but we can’t seem to do that right either …. One gig up until July ? Stadium bands book months , years in advance , it’s not an improv gig in a pub . We’ve got one on the books

Yeah it’s another failed Levy fuck up (lack of events). Cunt

 

[Spursidol]

I posted it a few posts up

Lessee means tenant .

There are lots of satellite companies surrounding THFC , , the majority are property based , such as Canvax Ltd , Greenbay Properties , Pacton17 Ltd

Go on company house & check their filing history, if you’re interested

If the debt is ours why use tenant ? You know levy knows what he’s doing regarding real estate & you also know he signed off the build & decided to make it an entertainment centre complete with nfl pitch & the tallest climbing frames in the galaxy , yet no guarantor of it?

Did you ask for it ? I didn’t .

I mean I get having other uses for a huge state of the art building but we can’t seem to do that right either …. One gig up until July ? Stadium bands book months , years in advance , it’s not an improv gig in a pub . We’ve got one on the books

As I said its quite likely that the company issuing the bonds is Tottenham Hotspur Limited and the football club itself is another subsidiary, and hence the word 'tenant' may be legally correct. But without seeing the precise sentence and legal documentation I cannot be sure.

You brought up the word 'tenant' - please provide the documentation in which its used. Then we can see whether its likely to be legally correct, marketing speak or whatever.

The bonds are 'investment grade' (as certified by 2 Ratings Agencies) and I suspect that is why its not like 'bank debt' which would often (but not always) require a bank guarantee.

Agreed a lot of large events are organised a year or more in advance - but I also know a number of events were not planned for 2023 as a year ago the event organisers (eg bands) were not prepared to commit in 2022 to tours back then due to covid. In my line of business I see a lot of covid related supply chain delays which may take until 2024 or even 2025 to iron out, so would not be surprised if there are still scheduling gaps - the stadium is not yet an established venue as shortly after opening covid struck, so it has little 'repeat' business (which is what event centres thrive on). We shall see over next 12 months how events turn out - whatever comes in is 'bunce'

 

[Furball man]

Yeah it’s another failed Levy fuck up (lack of events). Cunt

There were rumours that GnR’s weren't happy with things at the gig , sound wise ( mind you , I think Axel moans at anything ) & some gridiron players didn’t like the pitch , a poster on here mentioned it

I really hope these aren’t true though

 

[Ionman34]

Apple were a tenant because they leased property in the mall, rather than owned the mall.

Tottenham Hotspur Football Club own the stadium. All revenue produced by the stadium goes to Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. I really don't understand why this is so fecking difficult for people to understand. They aren't tenants at all.

It's not hard to understand, if you are open to understanding.

 

[Furball man]

As I said its quite likely that the company issuing the bonds is Tottenham Hotspur Limited and the football club itself is another subsidiary, and hence the word 'tenant' may be legally correct. But without seeing the precise sentence and legal documentation I cannot be sure.

You brought up the word 'tenant' - please provide the documentation in which its used. Then we can see whether its likely to be legally correct, marketing speak or whatever.

The bonds are 'investment grade' (as certified by 2 Ratings Agencies) and I suspect that is why its not like 'bank debt' which would often (but not always) require a bank guarantee.

Agreed a lot of large events are organised a year or more in advance - but I also know a number of events were not planned for 2023 as a year ago the event organisers (eg bands) were not prepared to commit in 2022 to tours back then due to covid. In my line of business I see a lot of covid related supply chain delays which may take until 2024 or even 2025 to iron out, so would not be surprised if there are still scheduling gaps - the stadium is not yet an established venue as shortly after opening covid struck, so it has little 'repeat' business (which is what event centres thrive on). We shall see over next 12 months how events turn out - whatever comes in is 'bunce'

I’ll try to find the interview with Aidan Mullally (, it was on the official site ,) I’m sure but I’m packing my bags as I’m off on holipops tmw

To your last paragraph, , just look at how many stadium bands are playing in London this year , so Covid is no excuse . The Emirates has 3 gigs line up, the London stadium , the same .

 

[Spursidol]

There were rumours that GnR’s weren't happy with things at the gig , sound wise ( mind you , I think Axel moans at anything ) & some gridiron players didn’t like the pitch , a poster on here mentioned it

I really hope these aren’t true though

I heard via various sources that GnR's used their own sound engineers and equipment rather than pay to use Spurs ones in the stadium. As GnR sound engineers weren't familiar with Spurs set up there were issues on day 1.

No doubt the workaround is to ask bands sound buys to talk to Spurs sound guys in advance or similar - but events since don't seem to have had that problem..

 

[Furball man]

I heard via various sources that GnR's used their own sound engineers and equipment rather than pay to use Spurs ones in the stadium. As GnR sound engineers weren't familiar with Spurs set up there were issues on day 1.

No doubt the workaround is to ask bands sound buys to talk to Spurs sound guys in advance or similar - but events since don't seem to have had that problem..

It was probably just Axel being Axel

 

[Zomb]

There were rumours that GnR’s weren't happy with things at the gig , sound wise ( mind you , I think Axel moans at anything ) & some gridiron players didn’t like the pitch , a poster on here mentioned it

I really hope these aren’t true though

I don’t think you can pin the sound issues on Levy (GNR). I guess the blockers relates to his protracted negotiations and I suspect promoters have just picked Wembley, Emirates etc instead as it’s easier and cheaper

 

[Furball man]

I don’t think you can pin the sound issues on Levy (GNR). I guess the blockers relates to his protracted negotiations and I suspect promoters have just picked Wembley, Emirates etc instead as it’s easier and cheaper

He got a good deal on some Amstrad speakers

 

[MemphisWill]

It's not hard to understand, if you are open to understanding.

That people don't understand the definition of tenant and how greatly it differs from the definition of owner?

Yeah, I understand that. There are some thick people on this message board, that isn't news to me.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Apple were a tenant because they leased property in the mall, rather than owned the mall.

Tottenham Hotspur Football Club own the stadium. All revenue produced by the stadium goes to Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. I really don't understand why this is so fecking difficult for people to understand. They aren't tenants at all.

You’re correct. People are being obtuse. A weird argument to have.

From memory TH Stadium is under the THFC group of companies. It’s all detailed in the accounts and companies house. We play there, it is owned by the football club.

 

[MemphisWill]

You’re correct. People are being obtuse. A weird argument to have.

From memory TH Stadium is under the THFC group of companies. It’s all detailed in the accounts and companies house. We play there, it is owned by the football club.

Exactly. Revenue generated by non-Spurs events at the stadium go to the football club. Somehow people can twist THFC making millions of pounds on off-days into a negative. It's truly bizarre.

 

[Furball man]

That people don't understand the definition of tenant and how greatly it differs from the definition of owner?

Yeah, I understand that. There are some thick people on this message board, that isn't news to me.

It’s incredible isn’t it ? Two totally different words