Levy / ENIC

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What is an important revenue driver? The single concert booked for 2023? Doubt it

NFL, events, Rugby Union and League matches, boxing plus a few concerts a year, of which one currently booked, think last one in November ?.

Aside from £'s rental plenty of money from sales of sports merchandising, food and drink etc - I'd guess up to £5m gross per event so £30m - £50m from sport events plus concerts. Worthwhile extra monies likely to be several times what Woolwich Emirates or Wham London stadium generate so its worthwhile

Plus the less tangible from TV exposure of events which will probably manifest itself in higher/more sponsorship income
 
NFL, events, Rugby Union and League matches, boxing plus a few concerts a year, of which one currently booked, think last one in November ?.

Aside from £'s rental plenty of money from sales of sports merchandising, food and drink etc - I'd guess up to £5m gross per event so £30m - £50m from sport events plus concerts. Worthwhile extra monies likely to be several times what Woolwich Emirates or Wham London stadium generate so its worthwhile

Plus the less tangible from TV exposure of events which will probably manifest itself in higher/more sponsorship income
I see the upside, I just don’t see any upcoming events
 
NFL, events, Rugby Union and League matches, boxing plus a few concerts a year, of which one currently booked, think last one in November ?.

Aside from £'s rental plenty of money from sales of sports merchandising, food and drink etc - I'd guess up to £5m gross per event so £30m - £50m from sport events plus concerts. Worthwhile extra monies likely to be several times what Woolwich Emirates or Wham London stadium generate so its worthwhile

Plus the less tangible from TV exposure of events which will probably manifest itself in higher/more sponsorship income
You can add in extra advertising revenue to that list as well.
 
So 6 events in 2022, 2 events in 2023 - 0 in 2024? Awkward trend

Don’t get me wrong if it was used for 15 events per year it would be a great moneyspinner, but it’s not - fast becoming a white elephant

That's incorrect - I suspect either 2 or 3 NFL events, 3 maybe 4 Rugby games plus boxing so lets say 8 sporting events last year. The fact they are not advertised yet doesn't mean they are not going to happen in 2023.

Likewise you responded to a post saying 3 concerts in last 12 months - no reason not to assume similar number of events, even of not announced yet.

Plenty of room for growth as 15 non football events allowed (I think a ceiling of 6 music events but might be wrong on that)
 
That's a little disingenuous

This year they've announced the following but there will be more:
  • Rugby union
  • Red hot Chilli Peppers
Last year they had:
  • Fury
  • Rugby union
  • 2 x NFL games
  • Lady GAGA
  • Guns n' roses
So that's not awful, and a likely profit of £6m-£8m across those events in 2022.
Let’s call it 10 million profit , wont take long to pay back the 500 million added cost, 2073 we are going to compete
Does anyone know the cost of Cryogenic freezing, I would like to be defrosted when Levy’s grandson cuts loose with the money
 
You do appreciate words can be used in different ways and contexts?

A PR statement is not a legal document written by a lawyer. So the term “anchor tenant” is descriptive, not technical . A lawyer wouldn’t describe us as tenants as we pay zero rent and have no rental contract. Hope that helps ☺️
So can you explain why the term was used . ? Is it ineptitude on their behalf ?

I do have a theory, THFC , is divided into lots of companies , from Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic , Tottenham Hotspur Properties , the Academy , Paxton7 & several others

Maybe , TH properties are the “ official “ owners & THFC are none rent paying tenants . Each company has to file its earnings , expenditure etc as they are separate entities regardless of being under the ENIC umbrella . It’s very convoluted, but that’s how business is. THFC & Athletic are the debt holders so I see no need for the term tenant to be used as we ( they ) are responsible for paying it back .
It’s very hard to find any of the companies assets regarding the stadium

Maybe it’s just that the companies/banks who put the dosh asked for the wording anchor tenant to be used

Thanks in advance for answering the first paragraph
 
That's incorrect - I suspect either 2 or 3 NFL events, 3 maybe 4 Rugby games plus boxing so lets say 8 sporting events last year. The fact they are not advertised yet doesn't mean they are not going to happen in 2023.

Likewise you responded to a post saying 3 concerts in last 12 months - no reason not to assume similar number of events, even of not announced yet.

Plenty of room for growth as 15 non football events allowed (I think a ceiling of 6 music events but might be wrong on that)

Concerts are booked well in advance so safe to assume there won’t be any more in 2023? Are RL and Boxing confirmed?
 
That's incorrect - I suspect either 2 or 3 NFL events, 3 maybe 4 Rugby games plus boxing so lets say 8 sporting events last year. The fact they are not advertised yet doesn't mean they are not going to happen in 2023.

Likewise you responded to a post saying 3 concerts in last 12 months - no reason not to assume similar number of events, even of not announced yet.

Plenty of room for growth as 15 non football events allowed (I think a ceiling of 6 music events but might be wrong on that)
I mean come on . You can buy tickets to see Peter Kay in 2025
 
So can you explain why the term was used . ? Is it ineptitude on their behalf ?

I do have a theory, THFC , is divided into lots of companies , from Tottenham Hotspur Football & Athletic , Tottenham Hotspur Properties , the Academy , Paxton7 & several others

Maybe , TH properties are the “ official “ owners & THFC are none rent paying tenants . Each company has to file its earnings , expenditure etc as they are separate entities regardless of being under the ENIC umbrella . It’s very convoluted, but that’s how business is. THFC & Athletic are the debt holders so I see no need for the term tenant to be used as we ( they ) are responsible for paying it back .
It’s very hard to find any of the companies assets regarding the stadium

Maybe it’s just that the companies/banks who put the dosh asked for the wording anchor tenant to be used

Thanks in advance for answering the first paragraph

The guy you quoted at Spurs has a Linked In account describing him as 'Business Development' which often means Sales and Marketing.

His job is to encourage NFL (and other sports) to use Tottenham Hotspur stadium so what can he do ? He can say at TH Stadium, NFL sides can get :
- Stadium festooned with NFL colours, banners whatever makes it feel like an NFL home stadium
- Shop will sell NFL merchandising plus inside stadium some merchandising
- TH stadium has supersized player facilities for their larger sized teams and coaching staff 'just like in a NFL stadium in USA'
-
There is even space for 'trailer parties' in the car park 'just like in USA'

The whole sales pitch is that NFL sides have the same 'importance' given to their needs/wants and use of facilities as the first user, Tottenham Hotspur who play football in the stadium (who he's called an 'anchor tenant') as he's essentially saying 'Tottenham are wearing 2 hats, one as 'owner' (which he doesn't mention as it doesn't help his sales pitch) the other as 'first user' or as he's called us 'anchor tenant'

Legally accurate - No! Descriptive - sort of yes, but he really needs to say TH own the stadium to give a complete and accurate answer ....... but his job is Sales & Marketing not giving legal opinions !
 
Concerts are booked well in advance so safe to assume there won’t be any more in 2023? Are RL and Boxing confirmed?

I do not agree its compulsory for the events to be advertised to public a year in advance to say they are or are not happening.

A good example is the NFL events that we know there is a 10 year contract in place - but no dates advertising which days atm. Using your logic, there are no NFL events this year
 
The guy you quoted at Spurs has a Linked In account describing him as 'Business Development' which often means Sales and Marketing.

His job is to encourage NFL (and other sports) to use Tottenham Hotspur stadium so what can he do ? He an say at TH Stadium, NFL sides can get :
- Stadium festooned with NFL colours, banners whatever makrees it feel like an NFL home stadium
- Shop will sell NFL merchandising plus inside stadium some merchandising
- TH stadium has supersized player facilities for their larger sized teams and coaching staff 'just like in a NFL stadium in USA'
-
There is even space for 'trailer parties' in the car park 'just like in USA'

The whole sales pitch is that NFL sides have the same 'importance' given to their needs/wants and use of facilities as the first user, Tottenham Hotspur who play football in the stadium (who he's called an 'anchor tenant') as he's essentially saying 'Tottenham are wearing 2 hats, one as 'owner' (which he doesn't mention as it doesn't help his sales pitch) the other as 'first user' or as he's called us 'anchor tenant'

Legally accurate - No! Descriptive - yes, but he really needs to say TH own the stadium to give a complete and accurate answer ....... but his job is Sales & Marketing not giving legal opinions !
It's the same thing as when people quote "it's an NFL stadium".

Despite the fact that the architects were given instructions to research every top football stadium in Europe and get the best of them.
Hence we have the "wall" copied from Dortmund. It was also designed to have the best acoustics for football crowds .

It's a football stadium with multiple uses, thanks to a retractable pitch and extra dressing rooms.

It's literally just PR spin to ensure that we get as many events there as possible.
 
Would we have had the left over money though? Didn’t we borrow it at a very low rate for the build and would we have been able to borrow to buy players instead?

I’m asking, as I don’t know. Not making an arsey point.

If you look at the footprint of the new stadium complex its several times the size of the old WHL - and inside the new stadium you will even find a marker of where the centre spot in old stadium was - and as you might recall there was a well publicised spat with Archway metal fabricators to be able to buy some of that land.

The only way the current stadium capacity has been achieved is with steep steps/seating on a much larger site (the critical part is the width of the site) - so your idea it could have been achieved without buying up lots of land just wasn't feasible.


The pictures in the Guardian report give you a sense of the increased width and length of the new stadium v WHL. Much of this extra length and width of land had to be bought from a variety of owners over about a 15 year period - assembly of the land package was a lengthy process.

I know as much as anyone about the location of the ground now and then. I went to the old place constantly while they were buying up land around it, while they knocked down the NE corner, while the new stadium started going up and watched every single day on skyscraper city as it was built while we were at wembley. I went to both the test games and did a stadium tour when it opened.
Believe me, I know.

At no point though did I say we could have developed the old stadium without buying up land. That would have been obvious. But that had to happen either way, They could have bought that land and simply expanded the stand sizes of the original WHL. The bought most of the properties on the main high road years before they started work. A new West Stand wouldn't have been a mammouth project and could have added an easy 10k seats and higher exec standards. The North stand from recollection had a lot of space around it save for Archway - they sold eventually. Another 5+ thousand seats there and our 36k stadium would have become 51k or there abouts.
The East is tricky as it had a narrow road behind it and I think a school? But that's not to say it couldn't have been vastly improved. Get those pillars out, work on the roof, add some extra seats, maybe as many as 5k without a huge footprint increase and thats 56k
That leaves the existing south stand which was where all the atmosphere was and would still be. Also feel like if the stadium grew organically it would have always maintained that "home" feel to it.

As for costs, yes we borrowed money for the new place that we may not have been able to borrow for team investment (probably could have in the first half of ENIC ownership)
But we did put a good few hundred million of club earned funds into it. And with the loans we have to pay back what we have borrowed, albeit at a good rate.

Had we simply spent the "deposit" to redevelop WHL we'd have no payback and would instantly earn the reward for increased capacity.

And tbh, I'm still not convinced the new stadium is the guaranteed money maker some think it is. Sure we make more on match days than our rivals. But the real money comes from CL qualification. premier league TV money, sponsorship etc, and in that regard, we're still miles behind the teams we want to catch.
 
The guy you quoted at Spurs has a Linked In account describing him as 'Business Development' which often means Sales and Marketing.

His job is to encourage NFL (and other sports) to use Tottenham Hotspur stadium so what can he do ? He can say at TH Stadium, NFL sides can get :
- Stadium festooned with NFL colours, banners whatever makes it feel like an NFL home stadium
- Shop will sell NFL merchandising plus inside stadium some merchandising
- TH stadium has supersized player facilities for their larger sized teams and coaching staff 'just like in a NFL stadium in USA'
-
There is even space for 'trailer parties' in the car park 'just like in USA'

The whole sales pitch is that NFL sides have the same 'importance' given to their needs/wants and use of facilities as the first user, Tottenham Hotspur who play football in the stadium (who he's called an 'anchor tenant') as he's essentially saying 'Tottenham are wearing 2 hats, one as 'owner' (which he doesn't mention as it doesn't help his sales pitch) the other as 'first user' or as he's called us 'anchor tenant'

Legally accurate - No! Descriptive - sort of yes, but he really needs to say TH own the stadium to give a complete and accurate answer ....... but his job is Sales & Marketing not giving legal opinions !
It would be nice to have clarity . I’m surprised no one asked the club when it was put out. It’s a glaring question in his comments .
 
I know as much as anyone about the location of the ground now and then. I went to the old place constantly while they were buying up land around it, while they knocked down the NE corner, while the new stadium started going up and watched every single day on skyscraper city as it was built while we were at wembley. I went to both the test games and did a stadium tour when it opened.
Believe me, I know.

At no point though did I say we could have developed the old stadium without buying up land. That would have been obvious. But that had to happen either way, They could have bought that land and simply expanded the stand sizes of the original WHL. The bought most of the properties on the main high road years before they started work. A new West Stand wouldn't have been a mammouth project and could have added an easy 10k seats and higher exec standards. The North stand from recollection had a lot of space around it save for Archway - they sold eventually. Another 5+ thousand seats there and our 36k stadium would have become 51k or there abouts.
The East is tricky as it had a narrow road behind it and I think a school? But that's not to say it couldn't have been vastly improved. Get those pillars out, work on the roof, add some extra seats, maybe as many as 5k without a huge footprint increase and thats 56k
That leaves the existing south stand which was where all the atmosphere was and would still be. Also feel like if the stadium grew organically it would have always maintained that "home" feel to it.

As for costs, yes we borrowed money for the new place that we may not have been able to borrow for team investment (probably could have in the first half of ENIC ownership)
But we did put a good few hundred million of club earned funds into it. And with the loans we have to pay back what we have borrowed, albeit at a good rate.

Had we simply spent the "deposit" to redevelop WHL we'd have no payback and would instantly earn the reward for increased capacity.

And tbh, I'm still not convinced the new stadium is the guaranteed money maker some think it is. Sure we make more on match days than our rivals. But the real money comes from CL qualification. premier league TV money, sponsorship etc, and in that regard, we're still miles behind the teams we want to catch.

One of the big money spinners at the new stadium is the corporate facilities. I understand they generate much more money than all the other seating areas put together - so the ordinary punter may generate some satisfaction in knowing that they are being 'subsidised' by those in corporate facilities.

To get those punters to pay very high priced packages the whole package needs to be very slick - very likely not possible in old stadium.

Just by comparison I understand from others that the Emirates stadium corporate facilities now look almost prehistoric, unattractive and do not generate anything like as much money as the Spurs ones do (maybe a factor of 3 or 4 times ?)
 
I know as much as anyone about the location of the ground now and then. I went to the old place constantly while they were buying up land around it, while they knocked down the NE corner, while the new stadium started going up and watched every single day on skyscraper city as it was built while we were at wembley. I went to both the test games and did a stadium tour when it opened.
Believe me, I know.

At no point though did I say we could have developed the old stadium without buying up land. That would have been obvious. But that had to happen either way, They could have bought that land and simply expanded the stand sizes of the original WHL. The bought most of the properties on the main high road years before they started work. A new West Stand wouldn't have been a mammouth project and could have added an easy 10k seats and higher exec standards. The North stand from recollection had a lot of space around it save for Archway - they sold eventually. Another 5+ thousand seats there and our 36k stadium would have become 51k or there abouts.
The East is tricky as it had a narrow road behind it and I think a school? But that's not to say it couldn't have been vastly improved. Get those pillars out, work on the roof, add some extra seats, maybe as many as 5k without a huge footprint increase and thats 56k
That leaves the existing south stand which was where all the atmosphere was and would still be. Also feel like if the stadium grew organically it would have always maintained that "home" feel to it.

As for costs, yes we borrowed money for the new place that we may not have been able to borrow for team investment (probably could have in the first half of ENIC ownership)
But we did put a good few hundred million of club earned funds into it. And with the loans we have to pay back what we have borrowed, albeit at a good rate.

Had we simply spent the "deposit" to redevelop WHL we'd have no payback and would instantly earn the reward for increased capacity.

And tbh, I'm still not convinced the new stadium is the guaranteed money maker some think it is. Sure we make more on match days than our rivals. But the real money comes from CL qualification. premier league TV money, sponsorship etc, and in that regard, we're still miles behind the teams we want to catch.
I'm no expert but would doing that have cost us more and taken an infinitely longer time to achieve.

Each individual stand would have to be closed while work was ongoing, maybe more than one when you get to the corners.

We'd still of had to buy up the land (huge expense) and we'd still couldn't have started until the Archway situation was sorted.
Then there's the planning permission for each individual stand and all the objections to each one.

Plus it's not a case of simply bunging on a few seats at the top of each stand.
The whole thing would have to be demolished and rebuilt, especially for the pilings to hold the roof in place.

So with everything paid for, plus loss of revenue (reduced capacity) for god knows how many years it would take, it was probably quicker and therefore cheaper to do it in one hit and rebuild.
 
One of the big money spinners at the new stadium is the corporate facilities. I understand they generate much more money than all the other seating areas put together - so the ordinary punter may generate some satisfaction in knowing that they are being 'subsidised' by those in corporate facilities.

To get those punters to pay very high priced packages the whole package needs to be very slick - very likely not possible in old stadium.

Just by comparison I understand from others that the Emirates stadium corporate facilities now look almost prehistoric, unattractive and do not generate anything like as much money as the Spurs ones do (maybe a factor of 3 or 4 times ?)

 
I'm no expert but would doing that have cost us more and taken an infinitely longer time to achieve.

Each individual stand would have to be closed while work was ongoing, maybe more than one when you get to the corners.

We'd still of had to buy up the land (huge expense) and we'd still couldn't have started until the Archway situation was sorted.
Then there's the planning permission for each individual stand and all the objections to each one.

Plus it's not a case of simply bunging on a few seats at the top of each stand.
The whole thing would have to be demolished and rebuilt, especially for the pilings to hold the roof in place.

So with everything paid for, plus loss of revenue (reduced capacity) for god knows how many years it would take, it was probably quicker and therefore cheaper to do it in one hit and rebuild.

Like I said on the previous page, Liverpools expansion from 46k to (eventually) 61k is estimated to cost in the region of £200m all in. And that's in todays bloated OTT inflation driven world.
We could have started in 2000 when ENIC arrived and it would have been basically cheap.
Instead, the plan was a new stadium from day 1 of their arrival and it took almost 20 years and a 10 figure sum.

Don't get me wrong, the new place is nice, but it doesn't feel like home anymore. And I'm just not convinced (yet) it's as much of a game changer for the football team as people believe.
 
I do not agree its compulsory for the events to be advertised to public a year in advance to say they are or are not happening.

A good example is the NFL events that we know there is a 10 year contract in place - but no dates advertising which days atm. Using your logic, there are no NFL events this year
No, I agree that RL and NFL are TBC - concerts are different and generally planned well in advance
 
I'm no expert but would doing that have cost us more and taken an infinitely longer time to achieve.

Each individual stand would have to be closed while work was ongoing, maybe more than one when you get to the corners.

We'd still of had to buy up the land (huge expense) and we'd still couldn't have started until the Archway situation was sorted.
Then there's the planning permission for each individual stand and all the objections to each one.

Plus it's not a case of simply bunging on a few seats at the top of each stand.
The whole thing would have to be demolished and rebuilt, especially for the pilings to hold the roof in place.

So with everything paid for, plus loss of revenue (reduced capacity) for god knows how many years it would take, it was probably quicker and therefore cheaper to do it in one hit and rebuild.
It took 20 years. The debate is could we have tweaked it much sooner and competed better on the pitch…. To which the answer is yes, but we definitely wouldn’t generate anywhere near what the new ground does but the preceding 20
Years would have been better I suspect
 
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