Will we win trophies with Pochettino? (Read thread before voting)

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Will we win trophies with Poch as our manager!

  • Yes

    Votes: 71 67.6%

  • No

    Votes: 34 32.4%
  • Total voters
    105
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sammyspurs said:
But as I said above, do you think there is no manager on the planet that could win a domestic cup with this squad.
Lets be real here.....we are not talking about miracles, thats hyperbolic nonsense.
We are in our 4th straight season of being a top 3 club, and two of them we've played away.

Two things are going on here:
1) People are hero worshipping Poch
2) People are underrating our players

Im a little tired of people acting like its possible for a team to consistently stay in the top 3 with "championship level" full backs and central midfield. Our depth has kept us in it through, what 39 injuries now. Our cover has also been injured. We have played away for two years.

There is this, frankly, disgraceful mantra that we are shit, a shambles, and having a crap season. We are above 3 of our top 6 rivals with ten games to go, and people are acting like the manager alone has achieved all this on his own with Wigan Atheltic plus Kane, Eriksen and Dele. Be a little objective, you're an intelligent bloke.

The next level for us is the PL Title. Thats basically what people are saying we arent good enough to win, right.
So if the next stop is the Title, how is this squad so poor? Especially under the circumstances we've been under this season especially. You cannot believe in your hear of hearts that not one manager out there could have won the bloody Coca Cola or FA Cup with our squad and budget by now, yet can still finish top 3 for four years under the exact same restraints.
Not winning the domestics is down to the manager and he will be the first to tell you that they are'nt worth shit to him. Thats not even debatable mate, its on record over and over again down the years.

So if we want to demand the next level, and give Poch the tools he needs to win the PL and CL, the only trophies he values, then lets be clear about that.

Its true we need investment in the squad to achieve those elite trophies.
But then you are in a position where you are slagging off the club for not being able to compete regularly with City and Real etc. Is that a fair demand on Spurs? Really?

The other two trophies are not on Levy. And Im fairly sure we'd all be a lot happier if we had two FA Cups and a Carabou over the last five seasons dont you. Shame the manager doesnt feel the same eh.
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The club are not interested in domestic cups as they are worthless financially . It would be drain on their ultimate aim of top 4 . Hence Poch is under no pressure to deliver these .
l don't think another manager would have done what he has done . He built this team by introducing youth/young prospects and establishing them .
. Others wouldn't have given them the opportunity as results count about know , not tomorrow . With no spend it's a unbelievably achievement . He has done both which is a remarkable achievement . He has made many of those players top4 which they were not before.
He has made a very good team but will always be missing the final ingredient as funds are not there.
ln a few years it will look daunting to maintain top 4 under such restrictions he is dealt but payed handsomely .
Wolves are improving and have backers , Everton have huge funds but thankfully have bought badly . Eventually one of them will be in the mix.
The project will have been a revenue success but not in the sense of trophies or a title.
 
Fidel Castro said:
The club are not interested in domestic cups as they are worthless financially . It would be drain on their ultimate aim of top 4 . Hence Poch is under no pressure to deliver these .
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It would not affect top four to win a Carabou Cup...thats a pure cop out and fabrication designed to absolve Poch of his shortcomings. Shortcomings he readily admits to.
He doesnt want those trophies, is it so difficult to say "I disagree with the manager on that"?

Fidel Castro said:
don't think another manager would have done what he has done . He built this team by introducing youth/young prospects and establishing them .
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I didnt ask that, I said do you not think Pep, or Simeone or whoever could not win the Carabou with this squad and budget.

Fidel Castro said:
Others wouldn't have given them the opportunity as results count about know , not tomorrow . With no spend it's a unbelievably achievement . He has done both which is a remarkable achievement . He has made many of those players top4 which they were not before.
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I agree in part.....but by saying this, you completely contradict that his hands are tied when it comes to the domestics. Top 3 is a way more difficult than winning the Carabou or FA Cup.

How would beating Chelsea in any one of those semis down the years and getting to a final ruined our chances of a top 4 finish?

Fidel Castro said:
He has made a very good team but will always be missing the final ingredient as funds are not there.
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And as I said, that missing ingredient is to take us to the next level and win the PL.......we do NOT need world class signings to win the FA Cup.
You are lumping all the silverware together, on purpose. There are two completely different targets here.

PL/CL - takes investment and improvement
Carabou/ FA - have a more than good enough squad to have won both by now

He is not interested in the latter, it has nothing to do with spend. You know this.

Fidel Castro said:
n a few years it will look daunting to maintain top 4 under such restrictions he is dealt but payed handsomely .
Wolves are improving and have backers , Everton have huge funds but thankfully have bought badly . Eventually one of them will be in the mix.
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Like When Everton did it last time they outspent us, and West Ham etc etc etc
Wolves will be in a relegation battle next season, stop being so hyperbolic about other clubs...we cant win a Carabou, but Wolves are going to waltz into the top 4 mix, get real.

Fidel Castro said:
The project will have been a revenue success but not in the sense of trophies or a title.
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The project is the foundations for the next 20 years and beyond. If you believe that, then I cant help you. Must be pretty shite in your shoes. I cant wait.....wouldnt be overly surprised if we won it next season, or got to the CL final this year.
 
Had this argument previously, the trophies v money argument.

But here's it really simplified. Imagine Harry Kane walks into Poch's office in May and asks "Boss, what's the plans for next season"? If the response is "Well Harry, we hope to earn lots of money and get a top four, maybe 15 points behind Liverpool".

How long do you think it'll be before Harry leaves? And Dele, and Son....

We need trophies, not just for the fans, but for the players as well. Modern football may be about money, but if you don't care about winning trophies, you don't need big money.
 
sammyspurs said:
It would not affect top four to win a Carabou Cup...thats a pure cop out and fabrication designed to absolve Poch of his shortcomings. Shortcomings he readily admits to.
He doesnt want those trophies, is it so difficult to say "I disagree with the manager on that"?


I didnt ask that, I said do you not think Pep, or Simeone or whoever could not win the Carabou with this squad and budget.


I agree in part.....but by saying this, you completely contradict that his hands are tied when it comes to the domestics. Top 3 is a way more difficult than winning the Carabou or FA Cup.

How would beating Chelsea in any one of those semis down the years and getting to a final ruined our chances of a top 4 finish?


And as I said, that missing ingredient is to take us to the next level and win the PL.......we do NOT need world class signings to win the FA Cup.
You are lumping all the silverware together, on purpose. There are two completely different targets here.

PL/CL - takes investment and improvement
Carabou/ FA - have a more than good enough squad to have won both by now

He is not interested in the latter, it has nothing to do with spend. You know this.


Like When Everton did it last time they outspent us, and West Ham etc etc etc
Wolves will be in a relegation battle next season, stop being so hyperbolic about other clubs...we cant win a Carabou, but Wolves are going to waltz into the top 4 mix, get real.


The project is the foundations for the next 20 years and beyond. If you believe that, then I cant help you. Must be pretty shite in your shoes. I cant wait.....wouldnt be overly surprised if we won it next season, or got to the CL final this year.
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l go with what the boss says , it will take 10 years as things are .
l agree we are easily good enough to win a domestic cup but as l have said the club want top 4 , so will alwsys be a backwater requirement .Yes he has cocked up , not playing the best players , Vorm in goal, Son as a back etc but that is not what he is here for.
I don't think another manager could have got champs league qualification 3/4 years on a spin under the same circumstances . He has delivered what he is payed for by the owners.
 
Reidy said:
Had this argument previously, the trophies v money argument.

But here's it really simplified. Imagine Harry Kane walks into Poch's office in May and asks "Boss, what's the plans for next season"? If the response is "Well Harry, we hope to earn lots of money and get a top four, maybe 15 points behind Liverpool".

How long do you think it'll be before Harry leaves? And Dele, and Son....

We need trophies, not just for the fans, but for the players as well. Modern football may be about money, but if you don't care about winning trophies, you don't need big money.
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Exactly which is why I cannot fathom why Pochettino thinks is it a clever move to openly state that the domestic cups are not a prioritiy, that financial stability in the last 4 years is worth more than a league title and that it could take another 5 years before we win a trophy. It’s beyond stupid - just imagine what Kane( who is turning 26) must think about having to wait until he is 31 before he may win a trophy. The likes of Kane and Ali have previously stated the importance of winning silverware and yet we have a manager than comes out with such comments. I don’t actually think he believes any of that - it’s just an easy excuse to use when asked about his failure to win anything.
 
We can beat ANYONE on our day so in theory, theres no reason why we can't win a trophy under poch.

Over the next 5 years this team won't be young and inexperienced anymore. The question is whether poch can get blood out of a stone and keep them overachieving and underpaid (relative to the top 6).

I still think ENIC will sell the club soon, and we'll be in unchartered waters.
 
I don't really understand some of the comments about the "plan", or "trophies vs money".

No matter what the start of season expectations were, was it part of the plan to play like shit at Burnley and get beaten? What about Watford? Wolves? Does anyone think it was a lack of money or squad-quality that lost those games? We didn't have enough internationals on the pitch vs Burnley to be overwhelming favourites???

Unless "we want to be inconsistent: world-beaters one week, uninspiring the next" is part of the plan (and I doubt it), I don't think the "plan" has anything to do with it.

I am in no doubt at all, and think nobody should be, that BOTH Levy and Poch's general plan is "try to win every match". And the reasons that fails are:

1) Five other teams have the same plan
2) Fourteen other teams plan is kinda similar: "Do our very best every match"

And sometimes, their plan works better.

It's the sort of debate that only happens in pubs or internet forums if you ask me, not to be taken too seriously.
 
Super Jan Fan said:
I think we will win the CL before the league title. We are hated in the league and there is a lot of recent history. In Europe we are freer (not a Brexit statement). I hope we don't draw English teams, that's our best chance.
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History tells us youre probably right.

You need alot of luck to win the Champions League, a decent draw with some key players on form. You don't have to be the best team in your league or even Europe to win the Champions League.

But you DO need to be consistent and the best team in your league to.. well... Win the league. Its the hardest league to win in the world and unfortunately we probably won't ever be good enough for it due to strength around us.
 
I also wonder whether not having an outfield player as captain impacts us in games. Captains like Keane (cunt), Terry (cunt) & Vieira (cunt) had that ability to drag their teams through certain games by just being extremely vocal & involved in everything (good and bad).
Hugo just doesn’t have that ability.
Yes, he’s a World Cup winning captain but in a tournament like that, you just need everything to fall into place over 4 weeks, not 9 months.
Can’t help but feel that having someone barking orders all over the pitch would help in certain games where the players need a kick up the arse from someone
 
Incomplete_usernam said:
basically, he needs backing this summer and the squad needs a lot of improvement, the key players I would keep here are...

1. Kane
2. Son
3. Vertonghen
4. Toby
5. Sanchez
6. Rose
7. Eriksen
8. Alli
9. Dier
10. Winks
11. Lloris

So, what’s everyone else’s opinion?
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You don't include Sissoko in that list?! Nuts
The guy has given everything this season, MOTM performances.

I would remove a couple from the above list but that's for another day.
 
I think it’s a little bit ironic that Bielsa was Pochettino great mentor and to date their managerial pathways seem to very similar. I’m not sure if Bielsa has actually ever won anything yet he is regarded as this mythical great. And right now Pochettino is going a similar direction. Yes he has done a fantastic job with us. But don’t ignore in Kane Son Dele eriksen vertoghen Alderweireld Lloris he’s had 7 world class players at the core of this team plus many other very good players. It’s not like he’s done a clough got us promoted from the championship with journeyman and got us into the top 3. At present I think the myth is in danger of becoming bigger than the actual body of work.
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Taken from another forum but I think this is a very interesting point. As I have said before I think Pochettino is the most overrated coach in the game at the moment and his mentor is arguably the most overrated manager of the last 15 years. Neither actually win anything and yet are held in the highest regard.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
We could genuinely bring in fresh meat in volume this summer and barely see a change in the first XI if we are able to get one or two to commit.
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Our first XI doesn't start every match due to the 4 competitions involved in and manager's rotation policy plus the unavoidable injuries throughout a season. So decent acquisition will make a huge difference like an Isco or Covavic players.
 
Last edited:
I love him, don't want him to leave, but I do not think he will win a trophy with us

He only wants to win the PL or CL. Nothing else matters and whilst that is admirable and is lifting us to amazing heights on a much lower budget compared to our rivals it does mean that the League cup and Fa cup are not on our radar of priorities

To win the PL or CL will need a bigger financial investment on transfers which unfortunately the club is unwilling to make. We will always be two or three top players away from winning the big trophies.

Poch himself is a brilliant coach, but I've felt he lacks a killer attitude, a certain ruthlessness that most top managers have. Poch is a nice guy that is admired by many but look at the likes of Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger and even Guardiola and you see people who will do anything and trample over anyone in order to get success. I just don't see Poch in the same light.

Also Poch has to be braver with making substitutions. Tactics for certain games have to be cleverer, and with our lack of financial resources it means he has to make near zero mistakes in the transfer market which so far hasn't been the case.

Then we also have to take into account the negative media bias against us as a club and fans. I'm not as paranoid as some fans are about this but I see it's definitely there. I'm even beginning to question some referees now too.

I hope I'm wrong, I want to be wrong. It would be amazing if this club with Poch as manager could go on to win something. But I see a big rebuilding job ahead in the summer and the beginning of a new cycle with the team needing time to adapt with each other and with the new stadium too.
 
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