Mauricio Pochettino

[TheSpurEst]

The players keep us from winning trophies, not Poch. No manager will consistently win things without the financial muscle to buy superior players. Our group keep failing to take the final step up and we cannot compete in the market to buy better players. In a few years, when Poch moves to a richer club, he will get his trophies. I think we have plateaued (on a very respectable level), but that's because of the players, not Poch.

Dude, no one talks about winning trophies constantly.
What some here (and what I myself have said in the past) is that we will never win even single one under Poch.

One can blame the stars, Soros and Nike PR guy if they want but the fact is that today's game was only lost on the bench. We have seen that the players can be good enough to see out teams like Real and Liverpool. And we seemed to be able to contain Juventus also rather well. We had 2 away goals and were leading by one at Wembley. Then manager made changes and we folded. Today we took the lead from first half, opposition manager made changes... and we EVEN did not TRY to change anything before we were 4:2 down (yes, if you are under the bus and fail to create single good chance yourself, you actually could make a change before 78th minute).

It is not the end of the world, ofc, but still todays loss hurts quite a lot. And it cannot do much good to the players confidence either. This season we have had played 10 really big games - against all of our top 6 opponents and 5 in CL. We have done well in 4 up to now (ManU, Chelsea, PSV II game and Inter II game). Let's hope that this tide will turn, and I (+ all the other ppl saying that we will not win a thing under Poch) will have to eat humble pie sooner rather than later.

 

[spursmalc]

During the 2nd half I wanted us to score a 3rd goal, not see out either a 2-1 or 2-2 result. I looked at our bench and if Lamela had been there I would have wanted him on. However if we brought on Moura our most attacking player we would have had to take off Either Son, Dele, Eriksen or Kane and I felt keeping them all on our best chance of scoring. Whilst I have been critical of Poch re his subs in the past, I am not sure I would have done anything different today.

 

[bus-conductor]

I absolutely could, there were others too in the match thread pre-game. They rested their entire squad we didn't/couldn't seeing as we had a must-win game against Inter and the Chav derby before that.

If we were to have a race, but I was to rest before it whilst you were made to compete in another just days before I think I stand a better chance of beating you.

Being fatigued from our week shouldn't mean we are outplayed and outworked in the first 30 minutes of the game though. We rested Eriksen, Son, Dier, Foyth. This isn't the first time we've been caught flat like this.

Truth is, Woolwich aren't shit, like many on here have been saying all season, their xg/actual goal ratio is the best in this league, their xgA is the same as ours. In other words they have an attack which has the best chance conversion rate and a defence which concedes the same amount of quality chances as ours.

I don't think Poch's selections were disastrous or totally illogical (obviously I'd have preferred Winks to Sissoko and said so before hand) but the bigger issue was thinking the 442/4312 would work the same against a completely different set up, instead of going 433 up against his 343 - and just being caught out early - again.

That 442/4312 diamond has been pretty shit all season, the only real success with it was Chelsea, and that's because it was a unique case where Alli sat on Jorginho.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Being fatigued from our week shouldn't mean we are outplayed and outworked in the first 30 minutes of the game though. We rested Eriksen, Son, Dier, Foyth. This isn't the first time we've been caught flat like this.

Truth is, Woolwich aren't shit, like many on here have been saying all season, their xg/actual goal ratio is the best in this league, their xgA is the same as ours. In other words they have an attack which has the best chance conversion rate and a defence which concedes the same amount of quality chances as ours.

I don't think Poch's selections were disastrous or totally illogical (obviously I'd have preferred Winks to Sissoko and said so before hand) but the bigger issue was thinking the 442/4312 would work the same against a completely different set up, instead of going 433 up against his 343 - and just being caught out early - again.

That 442/4312 diamond has been pretty shit all season, the only real success with it was Chelsea, and that's because it was a unique case where Alli sat on Jorginho.

It matters when you play a team fully and completely rested, it just does. We are talking about a small % but that counts. Fatigue had nothing to do with the first 20mins that was all tactical, the moment we shifted to a 4-3-3 their threat went and we were in the lead. We did fade in the 2nd half, we didn't rally. (We smashed Chelsea because of tactics, not because we were fitter/fresher than them).

The team selection I too had no issue with it and can't stand revisionism when it doesn't work e.g. Played Foyth instead of Toby is a reason why we lost or Sissoko over Winks, Winks has had poor games this season as has Toby.

Yes, the formation was at fault today, we got that completely wrong. The formation worked not only because of Dele on Jorginho but because Chelsea play through the middle under Sari, our diamond stopped them doing that. I have no idea why we did that today, Woolwich play down their flanks, did under Wenger and even more so under Emery, very odd decision indeed.

I actually thought that we had the game when Mustafi went off injured, they had already made 2 subs at halftime and didn't have another CB on the bench or indeed on the pitch for one to drop back. Emery had also changed formation to get his side back in the game too by matching us up, to which responded by going 3 at the back, that too completely backfired. Perhaps he should have brought on Toby to facilitate this???? But that was very disappointing that a player of Kane ability barely got a kick against two shocking CB's and then a makeshift CB once Mustafi went off (not all on him, we were poor at finding him) but if we had the legs then this is where we should have come back

 

[Totti]

He gets things wrong.

But he also gets things right. In fact he probably isn't praised enough when he gets it right in comparison to the bollocking he gets when he gets it wrong.

Shit happens. And it happens to every manager. What's annoying is all the negative fans that come out the woodwork and start killing him shit a week after hailing him as a tactical genius for nullifying Jorginho and smashing a Chelsea team that hadn't lost in 7 months.

Using this game as a reason to believe we will never win anything under Pochettino is stupid. Its a derby game ffs.

Continuously get it wrong against the likes of Southampton, Brighton, Cardiff and we can start to worry. Nothing tells me that'll happen.

 

[bus-conductor]

It matters when you play a team fully and completely rested, it just does. We are talking about a small % but that counts. Fatigue had nothing to do with the first 20mins that was all tactical, the moment we shifted to a 4-3-3 their threat went and we were in the lead. We did fade in the 2nd half, we didn't rally. (We smashed Chelsea because of tactics, not because we were fitter/fresher than them).

The team selection I too had no issue with it and can't stand revisionism when it doesn't work e.g. Played Foyth instead of Toby is a reason why we lost or Sissoko over Winks, Winks has had poor games this season as has Toby.

Yes, the formation was at fault today, we got that completely wrong. The formation worked not only because of Dele on Jorginho but because Chelsea play through the middle under Sari, our diamond stopped them doing that. I have no idea why we did that today, Woolwich play down their flanks, did under Wenger and even more so under Emery, very odd decision indeed.

I actually thought that we had the game when Mustafi went off injured, they had already made 2 subs at halftime and didn't have another CB on the bench or indeed on the pitch for one to drop back. Emery had also changed formation to get his side back in the game too by matching us up, to which responded by going 3 at the back, that too completely backfired. Perhaps he should have brought on Toby to facilitate this???? But that was very disappointing that a player of Kane ability barely got a kick against two shocking CB's and then a makeshift CB once Mustafi went off (not all on him, we were poor at finding him) but if we had the legs then this is where we should have come back

We didn't consciously switch to a 433 at any point in that game. And we most definitely didn't switch to anything before we scored, Ive watched it back to check. There were passages where the front three got pulled about into different positions constantly, as we often do, but it always returned to the 4312 with Alli at the tip of the diamond. We switched to a 343 around the 60th minute, which gave us a CM2 of Sissoko and Eriksen. Emery then went 433 with his last sub.

The rest I agree with though, and said as much. I didn't have big issues with the line up, but the structural problems and Poch's reaction to them was not good.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

We didn't consciously switch to a 433 at any point in that game. And we most definitely didn't switch to anything before we scored, Ive watched it back to check. There were passages where the front three got pulled about into different positions constantly, as we often do, but it always returned to the 4312 with Alli at the tip of the diamond. We switched to a 343 around the 60th minute, which gave us a CM2 of Sissoko and Eriksen. Emery then went 433 with his last sub.

The rest I agree with though, and said as much. I didn't have big issues with the line up, but the structural problems and Poch's reaction to them was not good.

Sorry fella we 100% changed formation looked like 4-3-3, could have also been a 4-2-3-1, it was a tad chaotic in there but we started to track runs made down their wings and were much better as an immediate result.

 

[sammyspurs]

How come it takes a defeat like that for it to become ok to question Poch and put some responsibility on his shoulders.

When two weeks ago the notion got you binned?

I don’t get this place

 

[docomospur]

How come it takes a defeat like that fornit become ok to question Poch and put some responsibility on his shoulders.

When two weeks ago the notion got you binned?

I don’t get this place

Emotions and expectations sharpen when it’s the NLD, and I think some who may normally cut Poch some slack are less generous when we lose this and collapse the way we did.

 

[Blanchflower]

The players keep us from winning trophies, not Poch. No manager will consistently win things without the financial muscle to buy superior players. Our group keep failing to take the final step up and we cannot compete in the market to buy better players. In a few years, when Poch moves to a richer club, he will get his trophies. I think we have plateaued (on a very respectable level), but that's because of the players, not Poch.

We need to improve our squad a bit definitely, you can question why he didn't make early subs yesterday - but other than Lucas who was he going to bring on to have even a small chance of changing the game? Certainly not Llorente, Walker-Peters, Rose or an unfit Alderweireld.

The subs ultimately won the game.

 

[sammyspurs]

Emotions and expectations sharpen when it’s the NLD, and I think some who may normally cut Poch some slack are less generous when we lose this and collapse the way we did.

But that’s like saying it’s ok to have all these faults in crunch games like Liverpool and City, and scrape through matches against relegation fodder by being so slack on the pitch and not making the right changes off it.

But only when it’s against Woolwich it’s ok to point it out.

Poch has had these issues for years.
His positives outweigh his negatives ten to one. But the one is keeping us nearly men, and just when you think he’s learning, he goes back to being a tinker man.

Look, we’re not experts. But you didn’t need an expert to fix it yesterday. I genuinely believe that nearly all of the suggestions posted on here by us nobodies would have actually improved us.

So why can’t Poch see that sometimes?

 

[Notabadsquad]

But that’s like saying it’s ok to have all these faults in crunch games like Liverpool and City, and scrape through matches against relegation fodder by being so slack on the pitch and not making the right changes off it.

But only when it’s against Woolwich it’s ok to point it out.

Poch has had these issues for years.
His positives outweigh his negatives ten to one. But the one is keeping us nearly men, and just when you think he’s learning, he goes back to being a tinker man.

Look, we’re not experts. But you didn’t need an expert to fix it yesterday. I genuinely believe that nearly all of the suggestions posted on here by us nobodies would have actually improved us.

So why can’t Poch see that sometimes?

Yep and that is my frustration.

Had we been playing a side packed with quality I would have said you know it's just that they were so much better but no.

Worse for me and the real worry is that having got away with it in the first half, Pochettino did not change things.

Foyth or Vertonghen had to come off, Aurier had to be told to fcuking defend better and our front 4, maybe bar Son had to be told to hold the ball up better.

My gripe last season was that we exited the 3 cup competitions whilst leading in each. That talks entirely of making 'that' crucial change at the right time. Yesterday was another example and you guessed it we were ahead.

I worry that Pochettino does not yet get that aspect right and that he won't.

 

[sammyspurs]

Yep and that is my frustration.

Had we been playing a side packed with quality I would have said you know it's just that they were so much better but no.

Worse for me and the real worry is that having got away with it in the first half, Pochettino did not change things.

Foyth or Vertonghen had to come off, Aurier had to be told to fcuking defend better and our front 4, maybe bar Son had to be told to hold the ball up better.

My gripe last season was that we exited the 3 cup competitions whilst leading in each. That talks entirely of making 'that' crucial change at the right time. Yesterday was another example and you guessed it we were ahead.

I worry that Pochettino does not yet get that aspect right and that he won't.

Yep, I agree. Made the point yesterday that he generally thinks subs are only for when things have gone tits up.

If we are playing shit and winning, he won’t make a pro active sub to kill the game.

 

[Wallander]

Up until their equaliser we started the second half good. It was only about 10 minutes but in the first half they were on top of us for the opening 10 minutes.

That goal killed us. From then on we had no response.

 

[asterdroid]

Masterclass one week, naive in other key matches. If he's taking no notice of the background chatter I wish the journos who get to talk to him bring it up more often instead of the usual shit like contracts, sharks on the transfer market and the stadium

 

[Notabadsquad]

Pochettino risks nearly man status.

Some will say he deserves better than that possible tag and I agree but he needs to solve his inability to react or should I say he needs to be more pro-active.

And it's not about resources because the same questions will remain until they are solved.

Last hurdle.

 

[Kboy32]

I believe that Poch is a great manager who has taken this team as far as he can. Yesterday showed his managerial limits. Starting a new pairing at centre back in a heated derby was foolish. The lack of substitutions when the game was clearly slipping away was also difficult to understand. It's one game I know, but what a game to lose. Feels like a marker.

The concern I have is his inability to instil a winning mentality. We still look like the almost men. Interestingly, when Kane scored yesterday his celebration looked reserved. I would fully expect him to ram it down their throats. They must've been shittting it at that stage. Pour it on them, I say. It all looked subdued. The general attitude wasn't right. That mentality comes from the top down.

My point is that if Poch lets players walk onto the pitch against that lot not ready to eat their own shit to win, he either doesn't understand that game or he can't motivate them in the right way.

Benitez is a manager who has won things. I think he has the managerial experience and approach to reach the next level with Tottenham. Poch should be thanked and moved on. Time to be ruthless.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

 

[VirginiaSpur]

I believe that Poch is a great manager who has taken this team as far as he can. Yesterday showed his managerial limits. Starting a new pairing at centre back in a heated derby was foolish. The lack of substitutions when the game was clearly slipping away was also difficult to understand. It's one game I know, but what a game to lose. Feels like a marker.

The concern I have is his inability to instil a winning mentality. We still look like the almost men. Interestingly, when Kane scored yesterday his celebration looked reserved. I would fully expect him to ram it down their throats. They must've been shittting it at that stage. Pour it on them, I say. It all looked subdued. The general attitude wasn't right. That mentality comes from the top down.

My point is that if Poch lets players walk onto the pitch against that lot not ready to eat their own shit to win, he either doesn't understand that game or he can't motivate them in the right way.

Benitez is a manager who has won things. I think he has the managerial experience and approach to reach the next level with Tottenham. Poch should be thanked and moved on. Time to be ruthless.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

Rafa Benitez is your answer?

 

[sammyspurs]

Benitez is a manager who has won things. I think he has the managerial experience and approach to reach the next level with Tottenham. Poch should be thanked and moved on. Time to be ruthless.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this.

My thoughts on this are that I would burn down the new stadium and open a banana shop on its ashes

 

[Kboy32]

Rafa Benitez is your answer?

Ha! I think he's an option, yes. Poch has had this team for a few years and mostly we're playing great football. But, we're still not there.

You could argue if it hasn't happened yet, it is unlikely to in the next year or two. What would Poch do that he hasn't already done?

Is Benitez so daft? He has won big competitions and considered to be very astute tactically. His CV reads better than Poch's.

That, or I'm on glue.