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At the risk of sounding pedantic. The term Yid comes from the Language Yiddish, ergo it is in essence, neither a racial or religious term. Fair enough it was a language spoken predominantly by (East) European Jews & that is how the association is come by.
If we chanted we are the 'Urds' would that be offensive to Pakistanis as Urdu is a prominent language there?
Secondly, i read a book about Tottenham fans where a old (Jewish) Spur told the story about how they started be called Yids when they (Tottenham fans) joined the Jews doing battle with Oswald Moseleys fascists before WW2 in London's east end (in particular after a game vs Sunderland - from memory! might be wrong).
Hence, we have had the moniker Yids for the best part of 75 years.
We'll sing what we want
We'll sing what we want
We're the YID ARMY
We'll sing what we want.
Spoke to my dad about this earlier as wondered what an older generation to me might think. (whole family is Jewish btw)
He always like the fact that non Jewish spurs fans thought of themselves as part of the yid army.
He always like the fact that non Jewish spurs fans thought of themselves as part of the yid army.
Ignoring the fact some people find it offensive won't make the problem go away. However we dress it up WHL is a public place, I know Jewish people who go there (not really football fans I would add) who find it offensive. They haven't complained to anyone but they are not comfortable hearing it.
Is the advice to them just to suffer in silence? However we may be using the term it offends them. It has made me think about it more since they told me it bothered them.
I think the SBL have chosen this particular subject as Kick it Out have already discussed it, Baddiel has made a well known video about it and most importantly it shows that as an organisation they are not solely about Black / Mixed Race footballers and the problems they face.
The Club have made their statement on the matter, and if they keep to their word we can expect the SBL to report THFC to the Met come November 20th.
This is either going to blow over very quickly or the SBL need to make a stand to prove they are an organisation worth something.
I can see the latter happening tbh.
Is the advice to them just to suffer in silence? However we may be using the term it offends them. It has made me think about it more since they told me it bothered them.
I think the SBL have chosen this particular subject as Kick it Out have already discussed it, Baddiel has made a well known video about it and most importantly it shows that as an organisation they are not solely about Black / Mixed Race footballers and the problems they face.
The Club have made their statement on the matter, and if they keep to their word we can expect the SBL to report THFC to the Met come November 20th.
This is either going to blow over very quickly or the SBL need to make a stand to prove they are an organisation worth something.
I can see the latter happening tbh.
All, & i mean all, the Jewish Spurs fans from Israel i have come across either in person or on message boards seem to LOVE the fact we call ourselves Yids.
Thats good enough for me.
Done a bit more digging - this is from a Rabbi
After ten of out tweleve tribes were exiled, the remaining Israelites were ruled by the kings of Yehudah (Judah). Eventually we all came to be called Yehudim (Judeans). The term Yehudi slowly morphed into the Yiddish word, Yid, and the English word, Jew.
So Yid is the Yiddish word for Jew. Not really sure how that can be construed as offensive?
After ten of out tweleve tribes were exiled, the remaining Israelites were ruled by the kings of Yehudah (Judah). Eventually we all came to be called Yehudim (Judeans). The term Yehudi slowly morphed into the Yiddish word, Yid, and the English word, Jew.
So Yid is the Yiddish word for Jew. Not really sure how that can be construed as offensive?
So what? Nigger comes from Negro. Paki is just a contraction of Pakistani. Are you going to argue that they're not offensive? I, like a majority of Jewish Spurs fans haven't had a problem with Spurs fans using it in a positive way. My brother on the other hand gets fucked off with it. The thing I find disturbing is the amount of people on here like you who don't care whether they offend people or not. Because it's then just a small step to offending people on purpose like the West Ham and Chelsea cunts
Yiddish in it's literal sense may be a language, but it arguably also refers to a racial identity and the traditions of European Jews. My mother's family is fro Poland and Western Russia and considered themselves Yiddish in more than just language.
For the record see my earlier posts in the thread. The idea that "it's not offensive because I asked a Jewish bloke and he said it's ok is like saying "I had niggers but the black bloke down the road is a nice chap. It's finding an opinion that is convenient.
Fact is that there are Jews who find it offensive for historical reasons. As long as that remains so there is still a debate to be had.
Fact is that there are Jews who find it offensive for historical reasons. As long as that remains so there is still a debate to be had.
Cheers T. Story over with in terms of us. Now they can focus on other issues.....like why that ambulance is driving away before the SBL can take the patient's details
You dont know anything about me. But thanks for the sweeping Generalisation.
Got it. Anyone that uses the word Yid does not care who they offend.
Over 40 years I have sung 'YID ARMY' at the Lane with, men & women, young & old, rich & poor, black & white, Sikhs, Hindus, muslims & Jews. (Not sure about buddhists/pagans). To the VAST majority of people it means nothing more than 'IM TOTTENHAM'!
I see it as a unifying force.
But if you choose to find it offensive (which the club & its Jewish Chairman do not) then of course that is your perogative.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/6488-Skin-Deeper
Interesting talk by a man who speaks out against offensive comedians and against discrimination. Anyway, the video is about some of the racial implications regarding a recent film called cloud atlas, probably don't want to watch it if you don't want to spoil too much of the film.
He brings up the idea:
1. there is an exception for every rule
2. context is everything
I guess I just saw a few parrallels in the fact that fans call several players, themselves and eachother this term implies that we see ourselves one in the same.
Sure in an ideal world, spurs fans wouldn't have to use this term. but alas, we don't, we live in a shitty world, whereby players/fans will be subject to this racial abuse from opposition.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...sustains-anti-Semitism.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I've got a little more respect for David after reading that article and it appears that he's got a greater understanding for this issue than i thought, It's just a shame that his video didn't let that on in the slightest.
Regardless, I believe there should be room for debate as its not an ideal solution, and the idea that it could leave people of jewish faith to greater discrimination as they can be now associated with this club by dickheadish fans, does leave me uneasy to say the least.
Interesting talk by a man who speaks out against offensive comedians and against discrimination. Anyway, the video is about some of the racial implications regarding a recent film called cloud atlas, probably don't want to watch it if you don't want to spoil too much of the film.
He brings up the idea:
1. there is an exception for every rule
2. context is everything
I guess I just saw a few parrallels in the fact that fans call several players, themselves and eachother this term implies that we see ourselves one in the same.
Sure in an ideal world, spurs fans wouldn't have to use this term. but alas, we don't, we live in a shitty world, whereby players/fans will be subject to this racial abuse from opposition.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...sustains-anti-Semitism.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
I've got a little more respect for David after reading that article and it appears that he's got a greater understanding for this issue than i thought, It's just a shame that his video didn't let that on in the slightest.
Regardless, I believe there should be room for debate as its not an ideal solution, and the idea that it could leave people of jewish faith to greater discrimination as they can be now associated with this club by dickheadish fans, does leave me uneasy to say the least.
Brilliant post. The above says it all though. I personally have no issue with the term disappearing but the whole thing with Baddiel and all of these idiots is that they pick and chose their points, refuse to engage directly with Spurs and the fanbase as a whole and then claim that WE are the ones that won't debate it.
He mentioned the "2 years ago" bit on London Tonight as well. Interesting point but yet again selective. As he openly admits it wasn't a Tottenham game it was Chelsea v Villa and it was Chelsea fans using the term about us. To even remotely push the blame towards us without going on a direct attack at his own club is where the problem comes in for me. It has NOTHING to do with us using it giving them a virtual green light and has EVERYTHING to do with how inherently racist and disgusting the fans of the club he supports are.
While Baddiel has at least been decent enough in the last 12 hours to mention the abuse from other fanbases both he and Herbert have chosen to focus the majority of the blame in entirely the wrong place. I haven't heard Herbert mention even once about sanctions against other fanbases or clubs and instead he recycles Baddiel's favourite "N word" reasoning ad nauseum. If both parties are serious about the "Y-word" then address the hissing,etc as the club statement gave them ample opportunity to do and then all parties can move on and debate how it can be removed completely. They won't, so nothing will change.
They don't want to give up do they:
http://www.football.co.uk/tottenham...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
http://www.football.co.uk/tottenham...tml?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Ledley King appears in the Baddiel video tbf
bensonrecon
bensonrecon
