They will never stop spurs fans chanting Yid Army at games. EVER.
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Tottenham have been accused of "insulting people's intelligence" by attempting to justify the chanting of the word "Yid" by their supporters.
The head of the Society of Black Lawyers says he will complain formally to police if Spurs fail to take action within a fortnight to stop the chants.
In a statement, Spurs said their fans used the term as a "defence mechanism" against anti-Semitism from rivals.
But Peter Herbert said this "wouldn't make sense to a six-year-old".
Oldham footballer Dean Furman, who is Jewish, has also told BBC Sport there should be a "zero tolerance" approach and fans using the chant should be immediately thrown out of stadiums.
However, Piara Powar, executive director of the Football Against Racism in Europe organisation, has criticised Herbert for being naive and questioned whether he properly understands football.
Some Tottenham fans have historically referred to themselves as the "Yid Army", in reference to the club's Jewish supporters.
The term is used in a chant by some fans at White Hart Lane and is sometimes seen on flags and banners.
But Herbert told BBC Sport: "Clearly Tottenham have a distance to travel before they learn of the offence that is being caused.
"If you had a group of Afro-Caribbean supporters using the 'N-word', even as a 'defence mechanism', it would clearly be completely unacceptable. There are young supporters there when the chants are used.
"Use of the word, even in this way, justifies other people using the term."
He has warned the north London club that unless they take action by 20 November, he will report "a racist incident" to the Metropolitan Police.
Earlier on Wednesday, Spurs released a statement arguing that "real anti-Semitic abuse, such as hissing to simulate the noise of gas chambers, is the real evil and the real offence".
It continued: "Our fans adopted the chant as a defence mechanism in order to own the term and thereby deflect anti-Semitic abuse. Our position on this topic is very clear. The club does not tolerate any form of racist or abusive chanting.
"Our guiding principle in respect of the 'Y-word' is based on the point of law itself - the distinguishing factor is the intent with which it is used, ie if it is used with the deliberate intention to cause offence. This has been the basis of prosecutions of fans of other teams to date.
"They do not use the term to others to cause any offence, they use it a chant amongst themselves.
"We believe this is the area that requires a determined and concerted effort from all parties and where we seek greater support to eradicate."
Oldham and South Africa midfielder Furman backed Herbert by saying that the term should not be used at all.
"I understand that it can be used as a nickname in some quarters, but if it's important to stop the use of the word then you can't use it either way," he told BBC Sport.
"You can't use it as a nickname or a chant for Tottenham because abusive chants will come back. The more they use it, the more opposition fans will use it. If it is banned altogether then hopefully we won't get the abuse at all. It needs to be tackled in the same way as racist chanting.
"The sanctions need to be high and then it will be stamped out of the game for good. We need zero tolerance."
"The anti-Semitic abuse is sung on the terraces and it's vital that anyone caught singing these chants is immediately removed from the stadium.
"People will be singing those songs without the knowledge of what went on in the Holocaust, for instance. Knowledge is everything and the sooner we can get these songs stamped out of our game the better."
But Powar criticised Herbert for his intervention. "I think this is where Peter Herbert and the Society of Black Lawyers are naive," he told BBC Sport.
"They perhaps don't know football. To think 20 to 30 years of complex identity will be cleared up overnight is wrong. And I have to say that the Jewish community are split on their use of that term.
"Many young members say it's a badge of appreciation and gives them pride. Some older members says that's not true, it's a derogatory term and goes back to a period they don't want to remember."
Good to see Football Against Racism is backing us
The head of the Society of Black Lawyers says he will complain formally to police if Spurs fail to take action within a fortnight to stop the chants.
In a statement, Spurs said their fans used the term as a "defence mechanism" against anti-Semitism from rivals.
But Peter Herbert said this "wouldn't make sense to a six-year-old".
Oldham footballer Dean Furman, who is Jewish, has also told BBC Sport there should be a "zero tolerance" approach and fans using the chant should be immediately thrown out of stadiums.
However, Piara Powar, executive director of the Football Against Racism in Europe organisation, has criticised Herbert for being naive and questioned whether he properly understands football.
Some Tottenham fans have historically referred to themselves as the "Yid Army", in reference to the club's Jewish supporters.
The term is used in a chant by some fans at White Hart Lane and is sometimes seen on flags and banners.
But Herbert told BBC Sport: "Clearly Tottenham have a distance to travel before they learn of the offence that is being caused.
"If you had a group of Afro-Caribbean supporters using the 'N-word', even as a 'defence mechanism', it would clearly be completely unacceptable. There are young supporters there when the chants are used.
"Use of the word, even in this way, justifies other people using the term."
He has warned the north London club that unless they take action by 20 November, he will report "a racist incident" to the Metropolitan Police.
Earlier on Wednesday, Spurs released a statement arguing that "real anti-Semitic abuse, such as hissing to simulate the noise of gas chambers, is the real evil and the real offence".
It continued: "Our fans adopted the chant as a defence mechanism in order to own the term and thereby deflect anti-Semitic abuse. Our position on this topic is very clear. The club does not tolerate any form of racist or abusive chanting.
"Our guiding principle in respect of the 'Y-word' is based on the point of law itself - the distinguishing factor is the intent with which it is used, ie if it is used with the deliberate intention to cause offence. This has been the basis of prosecutions of fans of other teams to date.
"They do not use the term to others to cause any offence, they use it a chant amongst themselves.
"We believe this is the area that requires a determined and concerted effort from all parties and where we seek greater support to eradicate."
Oldham and South Africa midfielder Furman backed Herbert by saying that the term should not be used at all.
"I understand that it can be used as a nickname in some quarters, but if it's important to stop the use of the word then you can't use it either way," he told BBC Sport.
"You can't use it as a nickname or a chant for Tottenham because abusive chants will come back. The more they use it, the more opposition fans will use it. If it is banned altogether then hopefully we won't get the abuse at all. It needs to be tackled in the same way as racist chanting.
"The sanctions need to be high and then it will be stamped out of the game for good. We need zero tolerance."
"The anti-Semitic abuse is sung on the terraces and it's vital that anyone caught singing these chants is immediately removed from the stadium.
"People will be singing those songs without the knowledge of what went on in the Holocaust, for instance. Knowledge is everything and the sooner we can get these songs stamped out of our game the better."
But Powar criticised Herbert for his intervention. "I think this is where Peter Herbert and the Society of Black Lawyers are naive," he told BBC Sport.
"They perhaps don't know football. To think 20 to 30 years of complex identity will be cleared up overnight is wrong. And I have to say that the Jewish community are split on their use of that term.
"Many young members say it's a badge of appreciation and gives them pride. Some older members says that's not true, it's a derogatory term and goes back to a period they don't want to remember."
Good to see Football Against Racism is backing us
I think we should pre-empt mr Herbert and report him for discrimination against Jewish people by trying to take away our right to refer to ourselbes as yids. Who is he to tell us what we can and can't say?
And does he realise that the word yid is derived from yiddish, which is a perfectly acceptable word many of my older jewish relatives use to describe a language or certain traditions? It's all down to context. Words are just words. It's how you use them that counts.
I don't see how it's any worse than when say, the sun, refer to Germans as 'fritz' or 'bosh' in a sport headline.
And does he realise that the word yid is derived from yiddish, which is a perfectly acceptable word many of my older jewish relatives use to describe a language or certain traditions? It's all down to context. Words are just words. It's how you use them that counts.
I don't see how it's any worse than when say, the sun, refer to Germans as 'fritz' or 'bosh' in a sport headline.
Good. Just blame those pesky joos. Always causing trouble in the world.
my blood is genuinely boiling reading that, have you got a link?
Was on bbc sport last night mate...
I have to say that I agree with this, even if I don't agree with the organisation.
To my mind, one of two things need to happen. Either the section of the Jewish community that finds it offensive needs to gradually die out with age (since it's mostly 30yrs+ Jews who have a problem with it), thus killing the historical derogatory link, or it needs to stop for the time being.
That said, I actually don't know how you would stop it in the manner called for by these people. Whether people like me find it offesive does not detract from the fact that Jews are a minority in the fan base now, and that even then Jews who find it offensive are only a section of the Jewish fans, not all of them. It's therefore not realistic for the Society of Black Lawyers to threaten to go to the police if it's used again, or to try and get everyone using it arrested. You'd have to clear out about 75% of White Hart Lane and all the surrounding pubs on a match day to even start on the problem. What are they going to do? Arrest 25,000 people all in one go? It's crazy nonsense.
If the Society of Black Lawyers had any brains they would acknowledge that this is an issue of a different dynamic to other racial slurs, particualrly because of the feeling of reclamation between so many fans, and that it's not something you can switch off overnight with silly threats. They would instead sit down with the FA and Kick It Out and discuss the potential of an indepth study on the "Spurs/Yid" issue to really get to the bottom of the use of the Y Word.
The way they are going about it at the moment stinks of trying to draw attention to themselves.
This is frankly ridiculous.
Within the confines of WHL the word has been reclaimed and repurposed. Absolutely no offence is intended at all, it is about tribalism and belonging. It is "Im a yid, we are all yids" with the specific context being allegience to THFC. It is not "Fuck the yids" or anything even remotely close to an offensive term.
Context and intent are everything IMHO, and while it is a word that has very negative connotations for some - in this context it bares no resemblence at all.
Nigger is a fantastic example brought up here, within the context of conversation between two black guys Ive seen them reference each other as nigger countless times as a term of endearment - yet if I went over and used the same word in a derogotory fashion I would fully expect both chaps to take huge offence and see a comlpetely different meaning between my use of the word and theirs.
This is basically the same thing.
I think it is farcical anyone is trying to get people kicked out of the stadium and report the club to the police for using OUR term in OUR home. Ridiculous.
Within the confines of WHL the word has been reclaimed and repurposed. Absolutely no offence is intended at all, it is about tribalism and belonging. It is "Im a yid, we are all yids" with the specific context being allegience to THFC. It is not "Fuck the yids" or anything even remotely close to an offensive term.
Context and intent are everything IMHO, and while it is a word that has very negative connotations for some - in this context it bares no resemblence at all.
Nigger is a fantastic example brought up here, within the context of conversation between two black guys Ive seen them reference each other as nigger countless times as a term of endearment - yet if I went over and used the same word in a derogotory fashion I would fully expect both chaps to take huge offence and see a comlpetely different meaning between my use of the word and theirs.
This is basically the same thing.
I think it is farcical anyone is trying to get people kicked out of the stadium and report the club to the police for using OUR term in OUR home. Ridiculous.
Theyve just been discussing it on Talksport. It was actualy a fair discussion until they asked thy fat spammer 'the moose' to weigh in. He's a Jewish west ham fan who finds the word offensive and thinks that arrests are a good idea and would stop it. Apparently the other clubs like Woolwich with a big Jewish fanbase don't do it so why should we?
Well maybe it's because cunt fans from nasty little clubs like west ham still find it funny to laugh at the holocaust and sing songs about having a foreskin.
I can't believe that anyone would go at spurs, who are the main victims of anti semitic abuse, not the perpetrators, before speaking directly to Chelsea and west ham about their conduct.
Perhaps he should take a bundle of rap albums into his local constabulary and arrest every black person who who uses the word nigger.
spooky
made a good point in his most recent blog (he has one apparently) why not send your little monitor people to the west ham game on the 25th and then see who you need to complain to the police about. Why is the deadline on the 20th?
Mans a tool.
Well maybe it's because cunt fans from nasty little clubs like west ham still find it funny to laugh at the holocaust and sing songs about having a foreskin.
I can't believe that anyone would go at spurs, who are the main victims of anti semitic abuse, not the perpetrators, before speaking directly to Chelsea and west ham about their conduct.
Perhaps he should take a bundle of rap albums into his local constabulary and arrest every black person who who uses the word nigger.
spooky
made a good point in his most recent blog (he has one apparently) why not send your little monitor people to the west ham game on the 25th and then see who you need to complain to the police about. Why is the deadline on the 20th?Mans a tool.
So it's apparently our fault? Surprised their response to us trying to turn it into a positive wasn't something along the lines of blaming us for having Jewish fans in the first place.
I'm a bit worried about these monitors they're putting around the ground. Perhaps we should put some of these up around the ground to warn people?
If you're not Jewish, it's not your term