Newcastle (a) 18/19 post match Ratings thread

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Man of the Match


  • Total voters
    133
Baggy Trousers

If we hadn't spent the best part of last season watching much of the same soggy shit as that today, it would be easy to put that game down to it being the season opener, WC hangover, lack of pre-season etc etc. but the fact is, what was served up today was very similar to a lot of the baggy shit we watched last season. I fact, it was almost identical to where we signed off at home to Leicester, just against a much shitter team.

In my opinion Che Poch has lost his way a little. Not "Roberto Martinez" lost, but lost none the less. He just seems to have lost sight of the principles on which he built this revolution. Aggression, tempo, collective ethos.

He spoke in his book of owing a debt to people like Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb. And when I think back, my very favourite Poch game was a 2-1 win over Woolwich at WHL, in his first full season, with those two at the hub of a relentless fisting of what had been to that point a superior Woolwich team. It was the match that cemented Pochettino was the real deal. Before that game we'd beaten Woolwich, we'd occasionally outworked them, and even more occasionally outplayed them, but never all at once, but that day we did all three.

Now, we all know that Mason and Bentaleb weren't world class CM's. And our team that day wasn't as full of class as it probably was subsequently, but what it had was some fucking urgency, some tempo, a bunch of kids who'd vanquished the dressing room of billy big bollocks egos and brought with them a hunger.

I was seeing a Spurs I'd wanted to see for most of my 50 years of watching them. I was seeing a Spurs side that was nasty, tenacious, pressed the ball, suffocated opponents but also played progressive football.

We were allowed to use the word philosophy and not feel like cunts. Because there was one. It was about voracity, collectiveness, meritocratic selection "you're paid to train, not to play".

We seem to be losing some of this. Players like Sissoko and Aurier clearly aren't there on merit. Do not tell me that any of Onomah, Amos, Skipp etc could be any worse, any more inept, any less technically proficient with - OR WITHOUT - the ball. I read people saying he's there to do a job, carry water, break up play. He's fucking atrocious without the ball, can't press without falling into the man. Second half, when we were desperately needing to get some control of the game he went completely awol, 20 touches of the ball in the second 45 minutes compared to 39 in the first. He made one tackle in 90 minutes and no interceptions. His touch is that of a Rhino on PCP. Why the fuck are we not seeing one of the lively, tenacious and technically proficient kids out there?

And one great cross aside, there is certainly no way KWP could be any worse than Aurier.

I'l forgive Dier being out there, we are down to bare bones in midfield, but he's not the future either and I don't know how much longer I can watch him doing his impression of Phil Jones going his impression of Marcel Desailly. It's all very ponderous and predictable and when teams, even very shit ones like Newcastle, get lively, he's another that struggles to get hold a game, he just shells himself back into the penalty area and drags the game back with him.

I know that some of the kids Ive mentioned aren't going to be world beaters, but the players being selected ahead of them sure as shit ain't. And at least a judicious introduction of one or two of these kids would bring some fucking hunger, some vim and vigour, some pro-active tenacity, could get us pressing and moving as a collective again, give us back some of that urgency and tempo to our play, as opposed to the baggy, open ended, slap dash bollocks we are watching too much of in the last 18 months.

Really not entirely sure what structure we were playing, and the players didn't seem to either at times. At first it looked like a 433 with Alli and Sissoko as 8's. But then at times it looked like a 4312, with Eriksen in the hole, and at other times a 442 with Moura running into congested central areas. Even without the kids, why not be braver and play Alli and Eriksen as 8's, hubbing off Dier and have Son and Moura either side of Kane, with Sissoko on the bench to come on as a wide right forward - the only role he's ever remotely looked valid in?

As it was, a game we had a lot of ceded (by Newcastle) possession in, ended up a very uncomfortable grind, that with a bit of bad rub, a couple of posts and better finishes, could easily have gone away from us, when we should be more comfortable against shit cunts like Newcastle. Our play lacked tempo, incision, wit or craft and will continue to do so with players like Dier and Sissoko at the hub of it.

Individual

Lloris - Good game.

Aurier - Looks like a novice out there. Here's an idea, lets paly a novice that doesn't.

Sanchez - Done by a decent cross, but decent enough after that.

Vertonghen - Pretty decent knock, one game saving block.

Davies - Meh.

Sissoko - Like a Rhino on PCP and, Second half, the PCP wore off.

Dier - Ponderous and predictable with the ball, lack of dynamism without it.

Alli - Decent enough game.

Eriksen - Not great by his high standards but still managed one less key pass than the rest of the team put together. Dier, Sissoko, Alli, Kane, Moura all managed fucking none.

The Brazilian Lennon - Contributed fuck all of tangible worth. Fucked the ball away cheaply, and ran around like a headless cunt the rest of the time.

Kane - Effort was there but football wise, another pretty atrocious shift.
 
Last edited:
Lloris 8/10
Aurier 4/10
Sanchez 7/10
Vertonghen 7.5/10
Davies 6/10
Sissoko 5/10
Dier 7/10
Moura 5/10
Dele 7.5/10
Eriksen 6/10
Kane 5/10

Dembélé 7/10
Son -
Amos -


MOTM
: Lloris, could've been Vertonghen as well.
 
Last edited:
I thought Dier was MOTM personally.

Voted Vertonghen out of the list though for his goal and eventual match saving block from Rondons effort.

Lloris - 8
Aurier - 6
Sanchez - 7.5
Vertonghen - 8
Davies - 7
Sissoko - 6
Dier - 8
Dele - 7.5
Lucas - 6
Kane - 6
Eriksen - 7
 
Either Sanchez or Dier for me. Thought Dier was great in the middle positionally and was simple but effective with his passing while Sanchez just mopped everything up (goal aside) and gave us real protection.

I went for Sanchez but easily could have picked Dier.
 
Baggy Trousers

If we hadn't spent the best part of last season watching much of the same soggy shit as that today, it would be easy to put that game down to it being the season opener, WC hangover, lack of pre-season etc etc. but the fact is, what was served up today was very similar to a lot of the baggy shit we watched last season. I fact, it was almost identical to where we signed off at home to Leicester, just against a much shitter team.

In my opinion Che Poch has lost his way a little. Not "Roberto Martinez" lost, but lost none the less. He just seems to have lost sight of the principles on which he built this revolution. Aggression, tempo, collective ethos.

He spoke in his book of owing a debt to people like Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb. And when I think back, my very favourite Poch game was a 2-1 win over Woolwich at WHL, in his first full season, with those two at the hub of a relentless fisting of what had been to that point a superior Woolwich team. It was the match that cemented Pochettino was the real deal. Before that game we'd beaten Woolwich, we'd occasionally outworked them, and even more occasionally outplayed them, but never all at once, but that day we did all three.

Now, we all know that Mason and Bentaleb weren't world class CM's. And our team that day wasn't as full of class as it probably was subsequently, but what it had was some fucking urgency, some tempo, a bunch of kids who'd vanquished the dressing room of billy big bollocks egos and brought with them a hunger.

I was seeing a Spurs I'd wanted to see for most of my 50 years of watching them. I was seeing a Spurs side that was nasty, tenacious, pressed the ball, suffocated opponents but also played progressive football.

We were allowed to use the word philosophy and not feel like cunts. Because there was one. It was about voracity, collectiveness, meritocratic selection "you're paid to train, not to play".

We seem to be losing some of this. Players like Sissoko and Aurier clearly aren't there on merit. Do not tell me that any of Onomah, Amos, Skipp etc could be any worse, any more inept, any less technically proficient with - OR WITHOUT - the ball. I read people saying he's there to do a job, carry water, break up play. He's fucking atrocious without the ball, can't press without falling into the man. Second half, when we were desperately needing to get some control of the game he went completely awol, 20 touches of the ball in the second 45 minutes compared to 39 in the first. He made one tackle in 90 minutes and no interceptions. His touch is that of a Rhino on PCP. Why the fuck are we not seeing one of the lively, tenacious and technically proficient kids out there?

And one great cross aside, there is certainly no way KWP could be any worse than Aurier.

I'l forgive Dier being out there, but he's not the future either and I don't know how much longer I can watch him doing his impression of Phil Jones going his impression of Marcel Desailly. It's all very ponderous and predictable and when teams, even very shit ones like Newcastle, get lively, he's another that struggles to get hold a game, he just shells himself back into the penalty area and drags the game back with him.

I know that some of the kids Ive mentioned aren't going to be world beaters, but the players being selected ahead of them sure as shit ain't. And at least a judicious introduction of one or two of these kids would bring some fucking hunger, some vim and vigour, some pro-active tenacity, could get us pressing and moving as a collective again, give us back some of that urgency and tempo to our play, as opposed to the baggy, open ended, slap dash bollocks we are watching too much of in the last 18 months.

Really not entirely sure what structure we were playing, and the players didn't seem to either at times. At first it looked like a 433 with Alli and Sissoko as 8's. But then at times it looked like a 4312, with Eriksen in the hole, and at other times a 442 with Moura running into congested central areas. Even without the kids, why not be braver and play Alli and Eriksen as 8's, hubbing off Dier and have Son and Moura either side of Kane, with Sissoko on the bench to come on as a wide right forward - the only role he's ever remotely looked valid in?

As it was a game we had a lot of ceded (by Newcastle) possession in, ended up a very uncomfortable grind, that with a bit of bad rub, a couple of posts and bad finishes, could easily have gone away from us, when we should be more comfortable against shit cunts like Newcastle. Our play lacked tempo, incision, wit or craft and will continue to do so with players like Dier, Sissoko at the hub of it.

Individual

Lloris - Good game.

Aurier - Looks like a novice out there. Here's an idea, lets paly one that doesn't.

Sanchez - Done by a decent cross, but decent enough after that.

Vertonghen - Pretty decent knock, one game saving block.

Davies - Meh.

Sissoko - Like a Rhino on PCP. Second half the PCP wore off.

Dier - Ponderous and predictable with the ball, lack of dynamism without it.

Alli - Decent enough.

Eriksen - Not great by his high standards but still managed one less key pass than the rest of the team put together. Dier, Sissoko, Alli, Kane, Moura all managed fucking none.

The Brazilian Lennon - Contributed fuck all of tangible worth. Fucked the ball away cheaply, and ran around like a headless cunt the rest of the time.

Kane - Effort was there but football wise, another pretty atrocious shift.

I thought you where harsh on Dier, I thought he was very good in his role. He protected well and was simple but accurate with his passing which is what most good DM’s do.

Problem is we don’t have a player next to him who is a deep lying playmaker, unless Sissoko suddenly is given magic powers. Eriksen is playing further forward so unless he is pulled in and Sissoko benched our passing game is always going to suffer which is why I hope we get Winks back from his 1 year of injury hell.

Dier has his job, he can’t do Sissoko’s and Dembélé isn’t much of a deep lying playermaker either, he is a different kind of player. It’s a deficiency in our squad we really should have resolved this summer but didn’t and one that particularly against the bigger teams could expose us. This is why I was unhappy at our transfer window because we really only needed 1-2 players not anymore than that to cover ourselves and we fucked it.

Don’t get me wrong I appreciate Sissoko’s work ethic but our team would work a lot better if we moved the ball quicker in the middle. It’s why over a year ago Winks was such a revelation for us and while not as good a player as Dembélé made the team tick more. Hence why we really need a fully fit Winks back IMO.
 
Lloris 7/10
Aurier 5/10
Sanchez 8/10
Vertonghen 7/10
Davies 6/10
Sissoko 5/10
Dier 7.5/10
Moura 5/10
Dele 7.5/10
Eriksen 7/10
Kane 5
 
You SC people sicken me with your structure and “on-topic” threads. Back with you.
GayIwoJimaFlag.jpg
 
Baggy Trousers

If we hadn't spent the best part of last season watching much of the same soggy shit as that today, it would be easy to put that game down to it being the season opener, WC hangover, lack of pre-season etc etc. but the fact is, what was served up today was very similar to a lot of the baggy shit we watched last season. I fact, it was almost identical to where we signed off at home to Leicester, just against a much shitter team.

In my opinion Che Poch has lost his way a little. Not "Roberto Martinez" lost, but lost none the less. He just seems to have lost sight of the principles on which he built this revolution. Aggression, tempo, collective ethos.

He spoke in his book of owing a debt to people like Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb. And when I think back, my very favourite Poch game was a 2-1 win over Woolwich at WHL, in his first full season, with those two at the hub of a relentless fisting of what had been to that point a superior Woolwich team. It was the match that cemented Pochettino was the real deal. Before that game we'd beaten Woolwich, we'd occasionally outworked them, and even more occasionally outplayed them, but never all at once, but that day we did all three.

Now, we all know that Mason and Bentaleb weren't world class CM's. And our team that day wasn't as full of class as it probably was subsequently, but what it had was some fucking urgency, some tempo, a bunch of kids who'd vanquished the dressing room of billy big bollocks egos and brought with them a hunger.

I was seeing a Spurs I'd wanted to see for most of my 50 years of watching them. I was seeing a Spurs side that was nasty, tenacious, pressed the ball, suffocated opponents but also played progressive football.

We were allowed to use the word philosophy and not feel like cunts. Because there was one. It was about voracity, collectiveness, meritocratic selection "you're paid to train, not to play".

We seem to be losing some of this. Players like Sissoko and Aurier clearly aren't there on merit. Do not tell me that any of Onomah, Amos, Skipp etc could be any worse, any more inept, any less technically proficient with - OR WITHOUT - the ball. I read people saying he's there to do a job, carry water, break up play. He's fucking atrocious without the ball, can't press without falling into the man. Second half, when we were desperately needing to get some control of the game he went completely awol, 20 touches of the ball in the second 45 minutes compared to 39 in the first. He made one tackle in 90 minutes and no interceptions. His touch is that of a Rhino on PCP. Why the fuck are we not seeing one of the lively, tenacious and technically proficient kids out there?

And one great cross aside, there is certainly no way KWP could be any worse than Aurier.

I'l forgive Dier being out there, but he's not the future either and I don't know how much longer I can watch him doing his impression of Phil Jones going his impression of Marcel Desailly. It's all very ponderous and predictable and when teams, even very shit ones like Newcastle, get lively, he's another that struggles to get hold a game, he just shells himself back into the penalty area and drags the game back with him.

I know that some of the kids Ive mentioned aren't going to be world beaters, but the players being selected ahead of them sure as shit ain't. And at least a judicious introduction of one or two of these kids would bring some fucking hunger, some vim and vigour, some pro-active tenacity, could get us pressing and moving as a collective again, give us back some of that urgency and tempo to our play, as opposed to the baggy, open ended, slap dash bollocks we are watching too much of in the last 18 months.

Really not entirely sure what structure we were playing, and the players didn't seem to either at times. At first it looked like a 433 with Alli and Sissoko as 8's. But then at times it looked like a 4312, with Eriksen in the hole, and at other times a 442 with Moura running into congested central areas. Even without the kids, why not be braver and play Alli and Eriksen as 8's, hubbing off Dier and have Son and Moura either side of Kane, with Sissoko on the bench to come on as a wide right forward - the only role he's ever remotely looked valid in?

As it was a game we had a lot of ceded (by Newcastle) possession in, ended up a very uncomfortable grind, that with a bit of bad rub, a couple of posts and bad finishes, could easily have gone away from us, when we should be more comfortable against shit cunts like Newcastle. Our play lacked tempo, incision, wit or craft and will continue to do so with players like Dier, Sissoko at the hub of it.

Individual

Lloris - Good game.

Aurier - Looks like a novice out there. Here's an idea, lets paly one that doesn't.

Sanchez - Done by a decent cross, but decent enough after that.

Vertonghen - Pretty decent knock, one game saving block.

Davies - Meh.

Sissoko - Like a Rhino on PCP. Second half the PCP wore off.

Dier - Ponderous and predictable with the ball, lack of dynamism without it.

Alli - Decent enough.

Eriksen - Not great by his high standards but still managed one less key pass than the rest of the team put together. Dier, Sissoko, Alli, Kane, Moura all managed fucking none.

The Brazilian Lennon - Contributed fuck all of tangible worth. Fucked the ball away cheaply, and ran around like a headless cunt the rest of the time.

Kane - Effort was there but football wise, another pretty atrocious shift.

Based on your criticisms of Poch I would say

1. We can’t play high tempo all the time, the first and second season we often burned out in games or periods. Hence I can see why he has changed a little.

2. I get the point on Sissoko and technical issues. We should have bought in the window players who can pass like Chelsea with Kovacic, if we are moving away from a high tempo to a more technical like City we need more technical players. That being said Poch keeps his mouth shut so we won’t know for years till he is gone what happened this window.

For me it’s a technical issue, if we ever want to beat City to the title we need
3-4 Eriksens like they have De Bruyne, David Silva, Bernardo Silve etc and we only have 1 Eriksen. As such City can move the ball very quickly and we can’t because Sissoko compared to De Bruyne at passing is a different animal.
 
Don't think it's fair to criticize any of the World Cup players, the non WC players are fair game though, cheif among these is Moura, who continues to underwhelm in meaningful games. Lennon probably is the player he's most reminds me of, a post peak Lennon as well. Tim Vickery referred to him as the Brazilian Theo Walcott. Still time for him to come good but it looks to me like another failed attempt of a moneyball signing.

The club needs to do some proper scouting - identify a talent and pay what needs to be paid instead of constantly making these bargain buys that ultimately cost the club more money.
 
Baggy Trousers

If we hadn't spent the best part of last season watching much of the same soggy shit as that today, it would be easy to put that game down to it being the season opener, WC hangover, lack of pre-season etc etc. but the fact is, what was served up today was very similar to a lot of the baggy shit we watched last season. I fact, it was almost identical to where we signed off at home to Leicester, just against a much shitter team.

In my opinion Che Poch has lost his way a little. Not "Roberto Martinez" lost, but lost none the less. He just seems to have lost sight of the principles on which he built this revolution. Aggression, tempo, collective ethos.

He spoke in his book of owing a debt to people like Ryan Mason and Nabil Bentaleb. And when I think back, my very favourite Poch game was a 2-1 win over Woolwich at WHL, in his first full season, with those two at the hub of a relentless fisting of what had been to that point a superior Woolwich team. It was the match that cemented Pochettino was the real deal. Before that game we'd beaten Woolwich, we'd occasionally outworked them, and even more occasionally outplayed them, but never all at once, but that day we did all three.

Now, we all know that Mason and Bentaleb weren't world class CM's. And our team that day wasn't as full of class as it probably was subsequently, but what it had was some fucking urgency, some tempo, a bunch of kids who'd vanquished the dressing room of billy big bollocks egos and brought with them a hunger.

I was seeing a Spurs I'd wanted to see for most of my 50 years of watching them. I was seeing a Spurs side that was nasty, tenacious, pressed the ball, suffocated opponents but also played progressive football.

We were allowed to use the word philosophy and not feel like cunts. Because there was one. It was about voracity, collectiveness, meritocratic selection "you're paid to train, not to play".

We seem to be losing some of this. Players like Sissoko and Aurier clearly aren't there on merit. Do not tell me that any of Onomah, Amos, Skipp etc could be any worse, any more inept, any less technically proficient with - OR WITHOUT - the ball. I read people saying he's there to do a job, carry water, break up play. He's fucking atrocious without the ball, can't press without falling into the man. Second half, when we were desperately needing to get some control of the game he went completely awol, 20 touches of the ball in the second 45 minutes compared to 39 in the first. He made one tackle in 90 minutes and no interceptions. His touch is that of a Rhino on PCP. Why the fuck are we not seeing one of the lively, tenacious and technically proficient kids out there?

And one great cross aside, there is certainly no way KWP could be any worse than Aurier.

I'l forgive Dier being out there, but he's not the future either and I don't know how much longer I can watch him doing his impression of Phil Jones going his impression of Marcel Desailly. It's all very ponderous and predictable and when teams, even very shit ones like Newcastle, get lively, he's another that struggles to get hold a game, he just shells himself back into the penalty area and drags the game back with him.

I know that some of the kids Ive mentioned aren't going to be world beaters, but the players being selected ahead of them sure as shit ain't. And at least a judicious introduction of one or two of these kids would bring some fucking hunger, some vim and vigour, some pro-active tenacity, could get us pressing and moving as a collective again, give us back some of that urgency and tempo to our play, as opposed to the baggy, open ended, slap dash bollocks we are watching too much of in the last 18 months.

Really not entirely sure what structure we were playing, and the players didn't seem to either at times. At first it looked like a 433 with Alli and Sissoko as 8's. But then at times it looked like a 4312, with Eriksen in the hole, and at other times a 442 with Moura running into congested central areas. Even without the kids, why not be braver and play Alli and Eriksen as 8's, hubbing off Dier and have Son and Moura either side of Kane, with Sissoko on the bench to come on as a wide right forward - the only role he's ever remotely looked valid in?

As it was a game we had a lot of ceded (by Newcastle) possession in, ended up a very uncomfortable grind, that with a bit of bad rub, a couple of posts and bad finishes, could easily have gone away from us, when we should be more comfortable against shit cunts like Newcastle. Our play lacked tempo, incision, wit or craft and will continue to do so with players like Dier, Sissoko at the hub of it.

Individual

Lloris - Good game.

Aurier - Looks like a novice out there. Here's an idea, lets paly one that doesn't.

Sanchez - Done by a decent cross, but decent enough after that.

Vertonghen - Pretty decent knock, one game saving block.

Davies - Meh.

Sissoko - Like a Rhino on PCP. Second half the PCP wore off.

Dier - Ponderous and predictable with the ball, lack of dynamism without it.

Alli - Decent enough.

Eriksen - Not great by his high standards but still managed one less key pass than the rest of the team put together. Dier, Sissoko, Alli, Kane, Moura all managed fucking none.

The Brazilian Lennon - Contributed fuck all of tangible worth. Fucked the ball away cheaply, and ran around like a headless cunt the rest of the time.

Kane - Effort was there but football wise, another pretty atrocious shift.

You know what is soggy shit? Your understanding of football. Please stop trying to force your whiny bullshit on us. I stopped reading after the first two paragraphs.

Fuck off.
 
Don't think it's fair to criticize any of the World Cup players, the non WC players are fair game though, cheif among these is Moura, who continues to underwhelm in meaningful games. Lennon probably is the player he's most reminds me of, a post peak Lennon as well. Tim Vickery referred to him as the Brazilian Theo Walcott. Still time for him to come good but it looks to me like another failed attempt of a moneyball signing.

The club needs to do some proper scouting - identify a talent and pay what needs to be paid instead of constantly making these bargain buys that ultimately cost the club more money.

All the players who've been with the club in pre-season had a fairly bad game today. They have probably been throughintensive training and they have had to travel to the US and to Girona. There is as much a reason to expect them to be a bit off as there is to expect the WC players to be off. There's a reason we always start slowly.
 
Don't think it's fair to criticize any of the World Cup players, the non WC players are fair game though, cheif among these is Moura, who continues to underwhelm in meaningful games. Lennon probably is the player he's most reminds me of, a post peak Lennon as well. Tim Vickery referred to him as the Brazilian Theo Walcott. Still time for him to come good but it looks to me like another failed attempt of a moneyball signing.

The club needs to do some proper scouting - identify a talent and pay what needs to be paid instead of constantly making these bargain buys that ultimately cost the club more money.

Quite a lot of people have high hopes of Moura, be a shame to disappoint.
 
Back
Top Bottom