We are never getting Martial or Rashford. It’s never happening.Agreed but asThin Lilywhite Duke said there maybe some leverage.
Rashford and 30M I'd bite their hand off....Not sure about Martial, though would rather take Bailly off them
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Our best centre half for some years is less of a loss than Dele, who is not progressing as a player, but is in fact is regressing, according to you.
He’s also less of a loss than Lamela who has been injured for two years, during which we’ve achieved before unheard of high league placings and great cup runs?
And also less of a loss than a guy who has played half an hour of league football?
That’s utterly ridiculous.
Okay, I'll try once more.
I am not saying that anyone else would be saying that Toby is shit or useless.
I am not saying we have performed badly during his absence - absolutely not.
But I am arguing against the something you (and someone else later) try to present as a fact - that we have not missed him the slightest. I am saying that this is something you cannot say with full certainty even though we had this wonderful run, in his absence was also run in the league where we earned 2 points from 4 consecutive rounds. If you can, please do conculsively and factually explain, how you can say with full certainty that we did not mis Toby in these games for example? Also during this unbeaten run, we drew against Wet Spam and Soton in EPL and with low-league Newport in FA cup. How can you state with full certainty that not even one of those 3 draws might not have been a win without Toby? I don't think you can. Just as I could not prove that we would have done better.
So to sum it up really short - you are trying to present it as a fact that during his absence we did not miss him one bit. And I am saying that actually we might have done even better (again, not saying we would have done badly or that we missed him a great deal, rather that he could have still something marginally). Neither can back the claims factually, so maybe let's agree that neither of us should present our points of view as solid fact?
I am not trying to say that Sanchez might not become better. I am saying that he currently is not better than Toby
. And my point is (and I admit it is bit of knitpicking and small difference, still to me somehow worth defending) is that we could have achieved the same thing and maybe even more with Toby. You can't prove it I can't prove it. But difference is that I am not trying to say that my view is fact. Aha, okay. Well excuse me for even answering.
We really seem to live in different world when you are putting Lamela and Moura ahead of Toby. So to put bench players ahead of defender who was part of league best defence for two seasons in a row. Apparently it is more important to the team to... be of South American heritage? Or what else so distinctive does Moura have that make him more important than our best defender?
Wasting your time.
Our longest unbeaten run in 19yrs without him says we haven't missed him, before he was injured we lost and drew games with him playing (we drew against a lower league side with him playing) so with him playing (pretending he wasn't injured and out) we might have lost and drawn more games than we did without him. But again this is speculation, I'm working off the fact of our record without him the past 5 months and that any football team, even the very, very best don't win every game.
We didn't miss Kane when he was injured last year, because Son scored lots of goals. Everyone now looks back at that period and says "we didn't miss Kane", fans and the media state this because it was so. We might miss Kane now but based on what happened last year and the last game I think we might be alright and there is a calmness within the camp and media as a consequence that we didn't miss Kane last year when he was injured, we'll find out.
All of this points to the sum of our parts as a team, I've never been more relaxed in my lifetime of supporting Spurs that we can lose a player and still perform and compete. Eriksen would be my biggest concern, but Lamela is now just clicking into gear and I have always thought he could do Eriksen's job if he got injured, whilst being very different they both are highly creative.
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He wasn’t making those mistakes that led to draws/losses though so imo to dismiss his importance on the back of that alone is rather disingenuous.
He wasn’t responsible for either Chelsea goal (Wanyama, Lloris). Trippier caught out of position in the Burnley draw. Dele giving the ball away v WBA. Swansea was a 0-0 so no errors for the defence. Even the loss to Utd was a Dier error.
So it’s a theory that only stacks up if Alderweireld was culpable for some of those goals conceded, our inability to score more than a goal in those games is no his issue either.
Imo in his absence we’ve seen a rise in ‘sloppy’ goals conceded but have got away with it more as we’re scoring 2+ when we do so. The goals v Juve, the Dier error at Anfield. First goal at Bournemouth.
No question we are better with Toby in the team in my mind.
Refresh memory, did Walker say publicly he wanted to leave?!
Hope he stays even at 30 (next season) he's still got a few years in him, however we are bigger than one player losing Walker hasn't obviously hurt us, nor would losing Toby ...
Would we be 'weaker' who knows? he's contributed very little this season so a replacement wouldn't have to do much to contribute more next season ....
Players come and go ... we keep moving on up ... (bet you sung that in your head just a little bit) .....
Would we be 'weaker' who knows? he's contributed very little this season so a replacement wouldn't have to do much to contribute more next season ....
Players come and go ... we keep moving on up ... (bet you sung that in your head just a little bit) .....
Thankfully the club wouldn’t be insane enough to do that. We can’t afford to forgo £40 million, that would be madness and something Levy would never do.
And if Jol didn’t want Carrick to leave or AVB didn’t want Bale to depart then we would have kept them right? That’s not how it works in the real world and it hasn’t worked this way for decades. And I don’t recall any discontent with Walker. The fact that Poch routinely played him and the club offered him an improved contract only the summer before his departure suggests otherwise.
Dele Alli is a 21 year old attacking midfielder who has assisted/scored 70 goals. At 21.
His ''regression'' has lead to 10 goals and 13 assists this season.
He has been inconsistent, but still influential. He's 21 for fuck sake, and you're saying he's regressing? No, it's called learning at that age.
It's you that is utterly ridiculous. Dele Alli is the future of this football club with Harry Kane, Harry Winks and Davinson Sanchez.
Losing Toby would mean we lose out on maybe 2-3 years of good performances. Lose Dele and it's a decade.
Aye players come and but with exception of Bale we havnt had players this good in decades!
Toby hasn’t played a part since October.....I think Moura and Lamela are more important to the team right now.I am not trying to say that Sanchez might not become better. I am saying that he currently is not better than Toby
Aha, okay. Well excuse me for even answering.
We really seem to live in different world when you are putting Lamela and Moura ahead of Toby. So to put bench players ahead of defender who was part of league best defence for two seasons in a row. Apparently it is more important to the team to... be of South American heritage? Or what else so distinctive does Moura have that make him more important than our best defender?
So does Poch, ouch
I’d like to see Dele in five years, where as Toby will carted out back and shot in five years.....I think Lamela is returning to his best and would be a massive loss. Hes given us so much diversity in the final third which funnily enough most of you spent last summer and January shitting your pants about.
I don’t care that Moura hasn’t played much yet. He is exactly the type of player we need and will be massive. I’m thinking about Gazza when he plays. So what if he’s only played a couple games......it’s a couple more than Toby has this year.
Ridiculous? Is it?
It’s not my choice, it’s Toby’s, ultimately cemented by Poch. I just so happen to agree with it.
If he won’t sign, and has been dropped, then I back the manager and the club. If its all bollocks, then great because as I’ve said he’s a world class defender.
But the fact is, we are proving that his loss will not be catastrophic. This is all without an actual replacement for him. If he goes, we will end up stronger than we have been since October because in that time we have had one less CB.
His sale means we gain a player.
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It is a bit like Ferguson at United with e.g. Stam and Beckham. If you don't want to fit in with the group for whatever reason on you go.
The Carrick and Bale situations aren't comparable at all. Its more similar to the Coutinho situation. Walker would have just knuckled down and got on with it.
Not sure what the previous summer has to do with anything, Walker hadn't pissed Pochettino off by then and be also hadn't asked to leave the club.
You know, the Stam comparison isn't far off. One of the best centre backs in the world coming off the back of a serious injury, not getting any younger etc and Fergie selling him because he got a reasonable price for an ageing star he thought may be injury prone.
Alderweireld will be 30 next summer? Same age Stam was when he left United. He's played 2 competitive games in 6 months. Had two serious injuries in the last two seasons.
