The Mighty Poch Men vs. Everton

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Had a shit stream and missed about 15 minutes of each half including our goal so can't make a great judgement, however it seemed like a typical first weekend game for us...not going to panic just yet.
 
I think the stats are in the 26 games in which Mason or CArrol did not start we won 17 drew 8 and lost 1
In the10 games either of them started we won 2 drew 5 and lost 3.
The Dembele factor since October was
with moose: won 15 drawn 8 lost 0
without moose: won 1 drawn 2 lost 3

Edit: Not that we are a one man team more to do with the consistency /quality of the squad depth.
Yet we are a very young squad/team and a squad/team that is far from the finished article and improving.

Definitely not a one man team but when Dembele is out you can see the dramatic negative effects it has. I agree that the drop off at that position is substantial but I don't think it's particularly that the options we have are shit.

I've come to honestly, without hyperbole, believe that Dembele is the best midfielder in the league. And I don't believe it's even particularly close. And that's very high praise, because I absolutely wanted rid a few seasons ago before Poch got a hold of him. I think that's 2 points lost mostly on account of not having Dembele yesterday.
 
Our tactics last season, especially at home were to press high, move the ball from side to side to disjoint the other team, notice in the pre season friendly that teams are first to press us , with our play being forced backwards more often .
Everton with home advantage and a lively home crowd were always going to impress, but Dier & Wanyama are too much alike and I can't see it work too often .
 
Awful first half, much better in the second. This Dier-Wanyama thing doesn't seem to work, two players wanting to do the same thing and just not enough creativity going forward.
 
Everton played 3 at the back. Seem to remember at least 1 team did that successfully last year. By playing wing backs further forward it seems to negate our attacking full backs.
I do not have the facts to back this up, I know others on here have better memories on these type of tactics?
Either way a very poor first hour. We now have a plan B. However if we start Jannsen unless Chadli or N'jie are on the bench and we are not winning on the hour mark next Saturday then we have no plan B again to bring on.
Spot on!

It was West Ham away. They played 3 at the back and was one of two teams in the league that were well worthy of their win (Newcastle away the other) last season. I'm sure that another couple of teams also went three at the back for a half?? But it is the only time that we have looked poor playing against it, when I say poor I mean we are being out played. The good news is whilst being outplayed we are still good enough to prevent another team from creating that many chances against us. Something we need to work on though, either tactically find a solution using players on pitch or Poch needs to make a sub to change things early.
 
I agree... the one thing that Janssen offers is the opportunity to CHANGE the formation. He's not a like-for-like Kane replacement (which beggars the question; do we still need one of those as well this window?)

Wanyama OR Dier would make sense in DM, but with Dembele out for another 2 matches, I guess we just have to stick it out for now.

Whilsy I agree to have two midfield 'destroyers' away at Everton made some kind of sense, it only works if the creative outlets in midfield like Dele & Eriksen do THEIR bit!

But yesterdays' starting line up does seem rather defensive-minded to play them BOTH at home though.... Winks or Mason in for one of them maybe?
Janssen is a busy player, he always looking to progress the football, which will suit our energy. Being this way, he will inject a fresh approach to our attack. Kane, dare I say it, sometimes makes the wrong choice which will effect the way we play sometimes.
 
Crucial point in the game was Vorm's save just before half time, at 1-0 I thought we'd always come back - Everton had pressed to hard in the first half and were never going to maintain the intensity.

I remember hearing / reading in his first season that Poch trains in pre-season to get the players to full speed for the 6th - 7th league game, so if we are generally happy with him as manager then we just need to accept that we'll start the season slowly....
 
Crucial point in the game was Vorm's save just before half time, at 1-0 I thought we'd always come back - Everton had pressed to hard in the first half and were never going to maintain the intensity.

I remember hearing / reading in his first season that Poch trains in pre-season to get the players to full speed for the 6th - 7th league game, so if we are generally happy with him as manager then we just need to accept that we'll start the season slowly....
Which is why points in games like this are good. Goodison Park isn't an easy place to come and get points - we've now equaled what we got there last year as well as now being 1 point better off at the same stage last season. We have TWO home games on the bounce now and to get 6 points from those would be great.
 
Their keeper made two blinding saves, neither or ours had anything to do really ... their goal was very soft, Lloris should have been able to throw his hat on it. Otherwise it would have been 3 points and everybody happy.
 
Was at the game and honestly didn't think we played badly, saying the first half was awful is a bit melodramatic. Also didn't hear a fucking peep out the home crowd, not a single chant!

My main gripe is there was a lot of opportunities to work the channels, particular Jansen and lamela but we never tried the long ball. Was a cookie cutter of many of our performances last year. Imo if we want to go up a level we need a top draw midfielder
 
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I agree that the team changed for the better once Janssen came on but unless we get another forward playing him and Kane will come with the caveat that that leaves no one on the bench to replace either of them or to come in with that attacking dynamic
 
Definitely not a one man team but when Dembele is out you can see the dramatic negative effects it has. I agree that the drop off at that position is substantial but I don't think it's particularly that the options we have are shit.

I've come to honestly, without hyperbole, believe that Dembele is the best midfielder in the league. And I don't believe it's even particularly close. And that's very high praise, because I absolutely wanted rid a few seasons ago before Poch got a hold of him. I think that's 2 points lost mostly on account of not having Dembele yesterday.
Steady son. I love him too and it's very clear what he brings to this spurs side but he's certainly not in the top 5 midfielders in this league. Cazorla kante Pogba gundogan fernandinho fabregas are all better IMO. Fans tend to overrate their players when they don't play
 
It was a really awful first half. There weren't many games last season in which the opposition out-worked us.

Everton wanted it more and it showed. Don't think we won a single 50/50 in the first half. Hope this isn't a sign of complacency.
 
Neither eriksen or dele has to be dropped at home to Palace to accommodate Janssen
Dele can play alongside Dier/wanyama and Kane take his (dele's)place.
However, I feel that until dembele comes back Wanyama will play alongside Dier.
Therefore probably see the same 11 start and hope for improvement and plan b be implemented otherwise.
Palace will have Jedinak and Puncheon in CM probably. It's If Poch feels dele and dier/wanyama can hold that, yet we are at home
 
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Steady son. I love him too and it's very clear what he brings to this spurs side but he's certainly not in the top 5 midfielders in this league. Cazorla kante Pogba gundogan fernandinho fabregas are all better IMO. Fans tend to overrate their players when they don't play

I'm the one in need of steadiness? Pogba and Gundogan haven't even played in this league! Statistically he's performed better than all of the above in the past 2 seasons (including Pogba in a very much inferior league). Just on the eye test with and without Cazorla/Fabregas/Fernandinho their clubs have put in great and poor performances. Kante was very good last season, but let's see him do it away from whatever the hell was on at Leicester last season.

Objectively, the only thing the above outperformed Dembele in over the past few seasons is press adoration. And it's pretty clear that with Dembele in recent seasons we've been championship form, without we're lower half/relegation form. Clearly no player has the impact for their team in the midfield that Dembele does.
 
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