SPURS v MOSCOW ...battle for 4th

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We've finished 3rd recently so the EL all day long.. We need a trophy.
I started off thinking the parachute to the EL was like parachuting into Karren Brady's piss flaps. A big soggy mess but a soft landing . But let's fucking make sure Poch knows tonight that it is something we want to conquer. (Europe rather than Brady's soggy piss portal).
Meeting my lad at Euston 1343. Anyone around that time I will buy beers for. Let's show these fuckers how to support a club. Let's do this and Smersh the merfers
 
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Previous seasons I was well up for EL and hoped we go the distance but does anyone REALLY believe we can win this cup? For the past 3 seasons we've consistently looked average - lackluster in most of our EL games even with some of the 1st team starting.

We've shown that we lack depth this season already in the CL so why should I have any faith in the second team to carry use to even the quarters? For the rest of the think we should just focus on the league & FA Cup
 
Sure, I think we could win the Europa League, but, I think we'd have to consciously sacrifice league performance to have our best chance of doing so. Though only 9 games, the trouble is, knockout rounds put an awful lot of pressure on single games, where all kinds of freak accidents and statistically remote happenings occur! (just ask our lasagne chefs, amongst other things).

I actually really love the format and challenge of Premier League play. Though without the drama of knockout cup games, it sets up all sorts of other fascinating scenarios that play out similarly dramatically- like our game vs Chelsea towards the end of last season. I don't think there is any shame in chasing a top 4 spot as the prem is an absolutely prestigious league- without a doubt, the most consistently competitive from top to bottom. If Real Madrid and Barcelona were in the Prem, do you think they would be automatic locks for CL qualification each year? I'm honestly not sure, myself.

I'm all for playing some Europa league games, but, I'm REALLY interested in putting Man U and Mourinho to the sword this coming weekend. We could make it a real rough december for them if we do em in. It's not that I hope wet field a deliberately weakened side for this one, but I do hope we prioritize our game vs Man Utd if decisions must be made along those lines.

Also, we are a point ahead of CSKA. We only need a draw to advance, and can afford to play with that in mind, knowing that they will be in a must-win situation.

I'm really excited to watch this match tomorrow!
 
I think we'd do far better in the FA Cup and league without Europe.

Imagine a week between each game, where the players get to do nothing but train and adapt. Look at Liverpool a few years ago and then Leicester - both without Europe.

Injuries have hit us very hard over the past few weeks and cost us quite a lot of points.

I think we'll win tomorrow.

Do I want us to qualify for EL? Not really.
Do I want us to qualify for the EL, play 2-4 games only to rest players later on? Definitely not. Same thing we did last year. Absolutely pointless.

If I trusted Poch to try win the EL, I'd say go for it, qualify. But I don't think Poch would do anything with it other than play half first team/half reserves and do the same in the following PL game, costing us points and eventually causing us to be knocked out of the EL anyway.
 
One thing the europa has over the champions league this season is the final is in a better destination.
 
Not sure being out of Europe helps....last year, it all went down hill after the Dortmund spanking. We had a flow with the midweek games and I dont think the 6 days off did us any favours.
Saying that though, the EL is proper shite unless you´re either in it to win it, or to keep fringe players hungry....so full strength or "kids".
No mixed teams. I dont get half trying to win it.
 
Poch embarrassed the club by throwing the Dortmund game last year. I like his words this year about being in it to win it when it comes to the Europa League but I'll believe it when I see it.
 
random question are we seeded in the Europa League if we get into it ? if so who would be the unseeded teams we could possibly from the champions league ?

As a Champions League drop out we'll be seeded favourably in the draw. This is assuming we qualify after tonight. Pochettino and the club need a trophy, it breeds a winning mentality. No one remembers 2nd, 3rd or 4th place in the league.

Roll on 7:45 it's going to be hell driving into Wembley with no public transport tonight.
 
I read that the top 4 qualifiers from CL and 8 group winners from Europa are seeded against 4 lowest qualifiers from CL and 8 runners up. Not sure how they define top 4 qualifiers but a win tonight should do it but probably not a draw. Anyone seen any different?
Therefore whilst an advantage to play away first can still get a CL team either way
 
Excellent article by Martin Cloake

Spurs at Wembley. It’s not complicated
So it’s match day, and can any fan want anything else but a win? For Spurs fans today, if you take soundings in some quarters, it’s one of the strangets and most complicated matchdays ever. According to some, we need to lose, to avoid qualifying for a competition that will damage our chances of qualifying for another competition we didn’t try in this season and probably won’t win next. We need to increase our chances of winning something by losing, so that we are in fewer competitions and can concentrate on not winning the ones that are left, because if we try too hard we might compromise our chances of qualifying for more competitions. Which we need to do even though the more competitions we are in the less chance we have of winning any of them. If indeed we even want to win them in the first place.

This is the contorted logic of modern football, a sport that needs teams to do well enough rather than to win. Being Spurs, further complexities are piled on top, because our form — or lack of it—at Wembley has made a rod for our backs. And then there’s the whole home games at Wembley thing too. It’s never simple at Spurs.

For me, it is. I want a good performance at Wembley, one that entertains us. I want a win to take us into the Europa League and give us confidence for our trip to Old Trafford on Sunday. I want us to play the best team available, I don’t believe modern footballers are incapable of playing two games in a week. And if we get into the Europa League, I want us to take it seriously.

I can almost hear the keyboards being bashed as I, er, bash my keyboard. But I’m a fan. And I want my team to do well. what’s wrong with that?

Of course this Champions League campaign has been, well, it’s been shit really, hasn’t it? The two home games so far have been bloody awful, Moscow was OK, half of Leverkusen reasonable, and Monaco a disgrace. Quite how the players have failed to motivate themselves for the competition that is supposed to be the ultimate stage is a mystery. If getting top four in the league to qualify for Europe is such a big deal, surely the point is to do something once you qualify?

Some say it’s all gone wrong because we played at Wembley. So what happened in Germany and in Monaco then? Can’t blame Wembley for that. Apparently, because Woolwich didn’t do well when they played home games there, that means no one does well when they play home games there. Look up the definition of apophenia. It’s more common than you may think, and most simply explained by referring to gamblers who insist they see patterns in random occurences. The only conclusions to draw from Woolwich and Tottenham Hotspur’s poor form at Wembley is that neither played well. The stadium didn’t stop the players playing, and the fact remains that winning a cup entails winning at least one game at Wembley. So there’s no getting around it.

Making Wembley the scapegoat also fits the agenda of those who believe the club only moved home games there because of greed. I’ve heard the phrase “We would have won those games at White Hart Lane” more than once, but that’s an opinion, not a fact — much as we like to blur the distinction in these chalenging times. The fact, tricky things, those, is that we could not have played at White Hart Lane anyway. Champions League regulations meant the stadium didn’t meet requirements and even if rules could have been bent, getting every season ticket holder in would have been a challenge at best. As for members — no chance. So the argument is academic.

Of course, as we’re seeing, if you’re determined to believe something you’ll not be dissuaded by inconvenient facts. So if you believe the club are a bunch of moneygrabbers then the fact that renting one stadium while running another must be more expensive than simply running one stadium will make no difference. And nor will the fact that having no stadium in which to play a competition you’ve qualified for doesn’t exactly give you a strong negotiating position.

Of course, manager Mauricio Pochettino’s shall we say intriguing team selection for the must-win game against Monaco that we lost — incidentally not at Wembley, another fact there — has also added to the general tumult. I’m a big fan of our manager but even I have to admit I’m confused by the message that team selection sent out. It was a Champions League game. The ultimate competition, so we’re told. We had to win. Simple. So play the best team. Even if we’re playing the form team in another competition in that competition next. Win the game in front of you, don’t play based on what might happen next. Even if we’d beaten Chelsea after rotating the team, that would just have been three points early in a competition with a long way to go. Don’t get me wrong, three points at Stamford Bridge would have been immense. But Monaco was a must win to stay in the Champions League. And in the end we lost both. I don’t get it.

Much as I’m a Poch fan, being a promising manager only lasts so long. He needs to win something. And there’s a suspicion that he doesn’t really see the cups as a big deal. Although not seing the Champions League as a big deal is a surprise. That doesn’t mean I believe he, or any professional, ever goes into a game not wanting to win. But I’m not entirely convinced from what I’ve seen of Poch’s approach to cup competitions over a couple of seasons.

So there are question marks to wipe out, unwanted runs that need breaking–six straight defeats at Wembley, come on! Whichever way you look at it, we need a win. I don’t believe losing breeds a winning mentality. And I don’t agree with those who say teams who qualify for the Europa league don’t do well in the Premier League. Last season we made the last 16 of the Europa and achieved our best finish ever while playing some of the best football I’ve seen since the Burkinshaw years. I want us to qualify for the Europa League, but I want us to take the bloody thing seriously if we do. Otherwise what’s the point?

And to help us do that I hope we turn up in number again. Of course attendance records don’t win trophies, but I’m proud of the fact that we’ve broken records aplenty. It shows everyone what we’ve always known about the dedication of our fans, and those who choose to belittle that really are just looking for something to complain about. I hear a lot about how so many fans who want tickets can’t get them and I know demand far outstrips supply. But here’s the chance for 85,000+ to see the Spurs. And if you’re asking what’s the point, the answer is that it’s Spurs and it’s a game we need to win for all the reasons outlined above.

I want a good performance at Wembley, one that entertains us. I want a win to take us into the Europa League and give us confidence for our trip to Old Trafford on Sunday. I want us to play the best team available, I don’t believe modern footballers are incapable of playing two games in a week. And if we get into the Europa League, I want us to take it seriously. Simple. I’ll be there tonight.
 
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I read that the top 4 qualifiers from CL and 8 group winners from Europa are seeded against 4 lowest qualifiers from CL and 8 runners up. Not sure how they define top 4 qualifiers but a win tonight should do it but probably not a draw. Anyone seen any different?
Therefore whilst an advantage to play away first can still get a CL team either way
Correct. The 8 CL 3rd place teams get ranked against each other in a mini league table, with the top 4 being seeded in the Europa (along with the 12 EL group winners) and the bottom 4 not being seeded (along with the 12 EL group runners-up). So in practical terms, a win rather than a draw would give us much more chance of being seeded. However, that certainly wouldn't guarantee us an easy draw in the Europa...

Edit: looked at the permutations... if we win tonight we are definitely seeded for the Europa. If we draw, then we'll still be seeded, unless Sporting Lisbon win away at Legia Warsaw, in which case we'd be unseeded.
Other teams who are definitely seeded so far in the Europa, who we could avoid, are Zenit, Roma, Ajax, Shakhtar, Schalke and Sparta Prague.
 
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I swerved it at the Leverkusen game. Can anyone tell me if The Torch sorted out their problems from the Monaco game?

Is it worth going there tomorrow?
Wasn't too ridiculous for the Leverkusen game, should be better tonight still with the lower attendance expected. I'm gonna give it a go
 
Right, I have two tickets going spare for this. Block 133, row 26, right behind the goal, lower tier. In the middle of the "singing section" (ha ha). Free to whoever wants them. Pick up either in Moorgate today before 5, at The Torch pre-game or outside the ground.
 
The odds will reflect how we have treated/performed in the EL. Watch those odds plummet if we field our best team in the first game (if we get there). I am convinced our best team wins, or comes extremely close, to winning the EL. Forget this half n half stuff we've seen. Squad rotation to me means having a player or two to come in if there is an injury or suspension & do a job. But wholesale changes haven't served this club well in Europe.
I still reckon the odds would be higher to win the EL. The reason being that only one team out of 32 can win the EL and for the top four it's effectively 7 teams into 4 places. Also as I said if you have one bad game (which, let's be honest, we're liable to have) you can find yourself effectively out the running. We could be playing opposition worse than us but the players heads go because it's a final or semi-final, for instance- we're still a young team. Plus the fact we are playing at Wembley and have been shit there, with the players not looking mentally comfortable, and in the EL it will (at least initially) be half empty and very quiet. WHL would make a lot of difference.

And the bookies rarely get elite level football wrong.

But it's true to say the odds would be closer to each other if we were in the habit of taking this competition seriously.

And I still agree that if we are not in the league running by Feb when the EL returns we should go for it, rather than top four, I am just stating why I think Spurs won't do this.
 
PL, EL knock out H/W, FA Cup knock out.

We are good enough to keep pace with all compititons up until its transparent of any outcome-its all too much at the minute for me to feel whats best. A few home draws in the FA Cup we could be in th last 8 without much effort. PL results will ebb and flow so as long as we turn up for home and the big games, against teams above, we can reach top 4 or challange for top spot. EL, I feel we need to take each round at a time making sure our home performances are very good. We can achieve something this season as long as we are in striking distance of each competition each week or month and only decide whats best when its clear to us. We are a good side.

Ive decided , in my mind, I want to win tonight and win well. I want to be in the KO next year. We have some great games in the PL and an FA Cup. lets be the best.
 
I still reckon the odds would be higher to win the EL. The reason being that only one team out of 32 can win the EL and for the top four it's effectively 7 teams into 4 places. Also as I said if you have one bad game (which, let's be honest, we're liable to have) you can find yourself effectively out the running. We could be playing opposition worse than us but the players heads go because it's a final or semi-final, for instance- we're still a young team. Plus the fact we are playing at Wembley and have been shit there, with the players not looking mentally comfortable, and in the EL it will (at least initially) be half empty and very quiet. WHL would make a lot of difference.

And the bookies rarely get elite level football wrong.

But it's true to say the odds would be closer to each other if we were in the habit of taking this competition seriously.

And I still agree that if we are not in the league running by Feb when the EL returns we should go for it, rather than top four, I am just stating why I think Spurs won't do this.

I get your sentiments. The overriding thing for me is winning a trophy not finishing 2nd, 3rd, 4th. Surely the odds of winning the Europa are better than winning the PL. I want to see cups in the cabinet not hollow league placement. Strip away the money for league placing, there are no bragging rights really. There are for winning trophies though.
 
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