I would've loved that. But I'm guessing jail time:carrollwtf:
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I would've loved that. But I'm guessing jail time:carrollwtf:
LOL
Touched a nerve.
I didn't tell you, I "suggested". I'd also suggest you re-read your thread and see just how easy it is to make "assumptions" from the "presumptions" you've made with your generic criteria in slating the Premier League and comedy "Against Modern Football" hipster sloganeering. I also stated "as if" - I've highlighted it for you in the original post, but you specifically isolated the Premier League as a bad example.
What are the names of those grounds in Turkey again?
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LOL. Several nerves. That's what happens when you're ascribed opinions you don't have.
No, I did not "specifically isolate" PL as anything. I replied to a post that "specifically isolated" PL as the good example. And rejected that sentiment.
I think a capo would suggest what you should sing, as well. I don't think you'd be held at gunpoint. You still don't want that, and likewise, you can keep your suggestions to yourself. Shame on me again, eh?
You make solid arguments, when you're showed that you're wrong. Crawl back into your cave.
And what does that have to do with my posts? Please, just show me a tiny correlation.
I was at this game, my first Standard Liege match. Loads of Tottenham fans at SL, more than the other teams put together (7 SL Spurs were at Monaco away) Was like the 80's, smoking in the ground, seats ripped out and thrown on the pitch. Great atmosphere too.
Read your posts again. They're riddled with allusion and barely concealed disdain for English football and English fan culture. Essentially your thrust was "everything's better elsewhere". If you truly can't see that or how your comments could be perceived by fans with a long standing love and care for English fan culture, I worry for you. You've been challenged and don't like it. Fair enough.
The cave's nice thanks. Hope your domestic situation is tip top too.
Oh, so you didn't care to showcase the correlation between my posts and the stadium names. Didn't think so.
English football is all I attend and basically all I watch. So, swing and a miss, I guess. I said, as the biggest league in the world, the atmosphere in the PL generally sucks (not away-crowds, though - and I can see why you'd want the chaos/impulsive nature of away games at the Lane, but it seems to be more or less impossible these days). That, imv, is primarily caused by the way football has evolved. The pricing, the stewarding, the tourism etc. is somewhat pushing out the "real" fan culture. That happens in all of Europe, but what most of the European fan cultures have then done is to organize and conjoin - e.g. fractions, capos, deals with the clubs with regard to 'atmosphere-stands' etc.
And that has worked. Organizing the fan culture has worked. The atmosphere IS better the places I've mentioned; hence, if you want that, do it. Whether it is 'organic', natural or not is a different issue. Is it desirable for the English, I don't know either. I merely wrote what other places have done to better the atmosphere.
English football is all you attend and all that you watch? But the atmosphere is better elsewhere? C'mon man....
I absolutely hate sitting in silence at games and those where you can hear a pin drop. But I have heard atmosphere's like those too at the Camp Nou, Bernabeu, Amsterdam Arena (with the Vak & F-Side in attendance), the Allianz and San Siro. In fairness in Italy you might get a rocket going off to punctuate it every now and then but they can be very dull.
You can't import other culture into something that's so embedded. It just doesn't work. Just a cursory glance through many fans messageboards and Tweet about the Holmesdale Ultras and the Watford flags. They're derisory to the point of abuse.
English football was in a deep, deep hole in 1989 ( I know it's probably not the right thing to say but we had plenty of shit atmospheres and half empty crowds in the 80's when I stood on the Paxton and Shelf) - all seater stadia went overboard but the changes to stewarding and policing were then a necessary evil to lift the game back out. It's not all seater stadiums and stewards or money or greed that have killed the atmosphere's here, it's, in my view, the change in fans pre match behaviours. You don't need to get in the ground early - you've got your seat details - you can rock up and know exactly what view you're going to get. No need to run to that specific crash barrier under the floodlight pylon at Paxton/Shelf corner to get a decent view an hour before kick off. No need to sing songs to the players to keep yourselves amused as they're warming up because we now do that in the pub beforehand. No amount of capo's/organisation is going to change this unless we go back to maybe unreserved seating and those regulations are relaxed. Even at the last few 1882 European games, I've noticed a big drop off in the noise and co-ordination that started off so well. I think without the culture and background that German clubs have where the football side has generally been part of a works team or social/sporting club - we've never really had that social aspect at the big clubs in England and that has meant that football here has always been something you go to watch rather than (and I know there will be exceptions) be part of the club - club as in the ownership, drive and vision. That leads to that inertia and "meh" prevalence that we sometimes see here.
It's a different atmosphere - no better no worse.
I've been lucky enough to go to games around the world and I've never been to a ground with a better atmosphere than the night we tonked the Goons 5-1 to get to the Carling Cup Final. The place physically shook
I absolutely hate sitting in silence at games and those where you can hear a pin drop. But I have heard atmosphere's like those too at the Camp Nou, Bernabeu, Amsterdam Arena (with the Vak & F-Side in attendance), the Allianz and San Siro. In fairness in Italy you might get a rocket going off to punctuate it every now and then but they can be very dull.
You can't import other culture into something that's so embedded. It just doesn't work. Just a cursory glance through many fans messageboards and Tweet about the Holmesdale Ultras and the Watford flags. They're derisory to the point of abuse.
English football was in a deep, deep hole in 1989 ( I know it's probably not the right thing to say but we had plenty of shit atmospheres and half empty crowds in the 80's when I stood on the Paxton and Shelf) - all seater stadia went overboard but the changes to stewarding and policing were then a necessary evil to lift the game back out. It's not all seater stadiums and stewards or money or greed that have killed the atmosphere's here, it's, in my view, the change in fans pre match behaviours. You don't need to get in the ground early - you've got your seat details - you can rock up and know exactly what view you're going to get. No need to run to that specific crash barrier under the floodlight pylon at Paxton/Shelf corner to get a decent view an hour before kick off. No need to sing songs to the players to keep yourselves amused as they're warming up because we now do that in the pub beforehand. No amount of capo's/organisation is going to change this unless we go back to maybe unreserved seating and those regulations are relaxed. Even at the last few 1882 European games, I've noticed a big drop off in the noise and co-ordination that started off so well. I think without the culture and background that German clubs have where the football side has generally been part of a works team or social/sporting club - we've never really had that social aspect at the big clubs in England and that has meant that football here has always been something you go to watch rather than (and I know there will be exceptions) be part of the club - club as in the ownership, drive and vision. That leads to that inertia and "meh" prevalence that we sometimes see here.
It's a different atmosphere - no better no worse.
I've been lucky enough to go to games around the world and I've never been to a ground with a better atmosphere than the night we tonked the Goons 5-1 to get to the Carling Cup Final. The place physically shook
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Of course it's not all that I watch, that is a stretch, and not what I said. Last 3 years I haven't had the time for much, and as I'm Spurs most of all, that's where my priority is.
But reading this post from you now, I fail to see that we're that dissident. At least to justify your "attack" on my view.
You say 'different atmosphere - no better or worse' - I agree, that's why I've said "as per sound" throughout the thread. The volume is generally different (higher) in Turkey, in Germany, in some dutch, Danish and Swedish games etc. throughout the game, as it is organized most of the 90 minutes. If that's not desirable, so be it. The atmosphere at e.g. WHL is excellent in periods of the game, but the lack of organized chanting creates outages as well. I read the thread before I contributed and got the impression that people wanted that to change at the new WHL, and I don't think you can simply import the current culture into a bigger stadium and expect great atmosphere. Hence my proposal.
As to why it is like it is we obviously have different views, but of course neither the issues I've raised nor those you raised stand alone.
Tottenham Hotspur have matched Chelsea’s offer to make Wembley their temporary home in a bid that could result in the London rivals sharing the national stadium for one season.
Chelsea were hopeful of securing exclusivity of Wembley while Stamford Bridge is redeveloped by submitting a four-year bid, thought to be worth around £15million-a-season, that would have left Spurs facing the prospect of moving to Milton Keynes for the 2017-18 campaign.
But Tottenham have responded by matching Chelsea’s offer for one season and there is growing optimism that may be enough to convince the Football Association to inform the Blues that they will have to share Wembley if they need to relocate in the summer of 2017.
Tottenham thought they might have to temporarily move to Milton Keynes
A deal to house both Tottenham and Chelsea could earn the FA as much as £75m in total and would prevent any accusations of favouritism or unfair treatment.
Tottenham have always been open to the prospect of sharing Wembley and have pushed their case with the FA, but have not negotiated directly with Chelsea over the matter.
Chelsea made a bid for exclusivity because they do not want to make concessions over the 2017-18 domestic and European fixture lists with Tottenham and believe they must sell Wembley as a more long-term prospect to their fans.
Tottenham need a ground to play in for the 2017-18 season while their new £400m stadium is built and are further along in the process than Chelsea, having already started work on the basement foundations and put the contract for the main construction out for tender.
Chelsea submitted a planning application for the £500m redevelopment of Stamford Bridge, which will include increasing the capacity to 60,000, at the start of December 2015 and the club are aiming to start work in 2017.
The Blues have acknowledged that they will need a temporary home for at least three years and the club have also factored in the need for the protection of being able to play at Wembley for a fourth season if there are any unforeseen problems or delays in the build.
The FA stated it would not be drawn on commercial negotiations regarding the use of Wembley in 2017-18.
Chelsea were hopeful of securing exclusivity of Wembley while Stamford Bridge is redeveloped by submitting a four-year bid, thought to be worth around £15million-a-season, that would have left Spurs facing the prospect of moving to Milton Keynes for the 2017-18 campaign.
But Tottenham have responded by matching Chelsea’s offer for one season and there is growing optimism that may be enough to convince the Football Association to inform the Blues that they will have to share Wembley if they need to relocate in the summer of 2017.
Tottenham thought they might have to temporarily move to Milton Keynes
A deal to house both Tottenham and Chelsea could earn the FA as much as £75m in total and would prevent any accusations of favouritism or unfair treatment.
Tottenham have always been open to the prospect of sharing Wembley and have pushed their case with the FA, but have not negotiated directly with Chelsea over the matter.
Chelsea made a bid for exclusivity because they do not want to make concessions over the 2017-18 domestic and European fixture lists with Tottenham and believe they must sell Wembley as a more long-term prospect to their fans.
Tottenham need a ground to play in for the 2017-18 season while their new £400m stadium is built and are further along in the process than Chelsea, having already started work on the basement foundations and put the contract for the main construction out for tender.
Chelsea submitted a planning application for the £500m redevelopment of Stamford Bridge, which will include increasing the capacity to 60,000, at the start of December 2015 and the club are aiming to start work in 2017.
The Blues have acknowledged that they will need a temporary home for at least three years and the club have also factored in the need for the protection of being able to play at Wembley for a fourth season if there are any unforeseen problems or delays in the build.
The FA stated it would not be drawn on commercial negotiations regarding the use of Wembley in 2017-18.
Chelscum have no planing permission or anything yet just a stupid design for a Vile looking stadium (as far as i understand could be wrong but not really looked into there situation), I cant see them being out of there current stadium in 17-18 season so doubt very much we will be sharing with anyone..
Is Stamford Bridge now holding 60k then? It is January 2016 and they still hold 41k
If they get planning permission and start to build in such a short time it will be a , er hum, miracle. Especially the building over railways lines, which is contentious, and the Chav Pitch Owners owning freehold of the actual pitch.
He also has all that money to invest in Russia's WC. As They need to spend £2.4b on Stadia and £7b on infrastructure and Putin has ordered Roman to open his wallet. That won't stop the Russian though what a couple of billion when your worth 8. Anyway cheap money is always available.
The run is for 2 reasons. It it is to stop us getting Wembley to get it in before Boris goes as it will be a yes for definite.
My bet is that everything will run smoothly for Chavs. Nobody will raise any objections, TFL and Network Rail will bend over backwards, probably shutting lines to enabling them to build over unnelectrified lines, and we will get fucked over.
Chelsea currently own less than 75% of the new stadium footprint. They will almost certainly have an "Archway".
Chelsea have yet to even make contact with TfL about their expansion plans for Fulham Broadway or covering the railway behind the East Stand that still carries nuclear waste.
Chelsea are yet to give very close neighbouring borough (Kensington and Chelsea) any definitive plans on how spoil and the new bricks are to be transported through their borough.
I tried to find out about how far thy have got and found this its says that negotiations with TFL and NR ae well advanced and that by next summer they hope to start building over the lines. Bullshit?
How Chelsea will get their new stadium ready for 2020
Exactly @Gothamizm the atmosphere is going to be dead and buried forever. I doubt there's any turning back now though, it's shite anyway.
Apart from that I love the lane and don't see an extra 22000 people wanting to watch Tottenham vs Stoke
You'll find we are one of only a few clubs in the premiership that have more fans apply for tickets than is available for home matches. Rarely you'll find a seat empty at the lane that hasn't been paid for. We'll fill those seats especially if we can secure a few seasons in the Champions League! With all the extra revenue from the new PL TV deal, the stadium when complete and all the other tournaments we play in it should leave us very cash happy in a couple of seasons. You'll find the atmosphere will be there when we all have something to cheer about! What with the second coming of Bale only a season and a half away when Real can sell players again! Just in time to play in a brand new shiny stadium. Bale and Kane equals us winning everything! I for one can't wait!
From an ITK within the senior echelons of TfL, no substantive contact made.
Of course, he could be bullshitting me, but there we go!