Whether the manager of a team finishing third in one of the World's most competetive leagues has any control of his players is not a serious question.
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Whether the manager of a team finishing third in one of the World's most competetive leagues has any control of his players is not a serious question.
He fucked up like Ferguson in 1992!
I think he's a very good tactician but he has a bit of Arry about him...in that he allows the players to get away with a lot as long as they're performing. He's tactically strict but strict in terms of discipline and actually telling players not to behave in an inappropriate way? it looks like the players are either not listening or he has a very relaxed approach.
As i said he should have dropped Walker for being a total twat in the WBA and Chelsea game (and sat the team down after the WBA game and told them no more kicking out bullshit)...he should have come out and said Dier was totally wrong for questioning the teams ability to motivate themselves after back to back draws.
He has his favourites it seems (which every manager does i guess) but some of his actions in terms of being fair? well no he's not been fair has he. Dropping Wimmer straight away when Jan came back (not knocking the decision but not exactly fair was it)...giving Benteleb 1 start on his return then dropping him completely after 1 bad game yet persisting on Mason despite numerous horrendous games....finding it easy to alway sub Son off but doesn't dare take certain other players off who have been just as bad...not dropping walker after his behaviour and performances and replacing him with a very able Trippier.
You're confusing a difference in the way, YOU think it's right in terms of edge, dirtiness etc. and what Poch thinks is right, with him not having control.
You're entitled to think that our players have overstepped in specific situations. It's not that same as Poch losing control though.
wait...so you're implying that Poch might actually think it's ok to gauge eyes? kick out at opponents in off the ball incidents, throw blood at players? if that's the case i don't want him managing the club (i happen to think he doesn't think it's ok though).
Lower points total than AVB, and relied on the big teams being poor to finish where we are. The Chelsea game onwards has been alarming.
If Poch is what he is said to be, why the implosion and why are we behind AVB's season? He and the players have let us down big time. They've showed us that their contracts and finish bonuses were more important than the fans. I don't care how well we've played this year, I have to question any manager or player that gives up once they've met their pay target.
Poch, and his players, have sunk tremendously in my estimation today.
If Poch is what he is said to be, why the implosion and why are we behind AVB's season? He and the players have let us down big time. They've showed us that their contracts and finish bonuses were more important than the fans. I don't care how well we've played this year, I have to question any manager or player that gives up once they've met their pay target.
Poch, and his players, have sunk tremendously in my estimation today.
I think Poch's next objective has to be to train the players to have a variety of facets to their game. He's had two seasons where we've seen a big cull as he disposed off bad personalities, ill-disciplined and not fit for purpose players. We've now got a young, enthusiastic, though fair-weather side. When momentum is with us we are like clock-work. Swamping the opposition, high intensity, quick movement, clinical finishing. But we've seen the other side - throwing the toys out the pram, losing heads, sulking, giving up. This is where bringing in one or two experienced heads will be crucial. We're on the ascending curve but it can go tits up if we manage this wrong.
One of the things I'd like to see and this has been through watching Leicester, players winning their individual battles. His style and the continental style is about the team collective and what-not but Leicester have shown a pragmatism about them and Souness was spot on when he said their style means very little can go wrong. Each to the man do their job well and this means they can afford to sit back, they can get away with having low ball possession. It's hardly negative either as they've had some fantastic results and ultimately won the title at a canter.
We lose too many leads. Having the ability to shut up shop is another facet we need and it's not as simple as it sounds. When we're in the Champions League we'll be asked a hell of a lot of questions. No need to change his style, but Poch being a young manager will analyse and hopefully appreciate what Ranieri has done and add it to his teams.
One of the things I'd like to see and this has been through watching Leicester, players winning their individual battles. His style and the continental style is about the team collective and what-not but Leicester have shown a pragmatism about them and Souness was spot on when he said their style means very little can go wrong. Each to the man do their job well and this means they can afford to sit back, they can get away with having low ball possession. It's hardly negative either as they've had some fantastic results and ultimately won the title at a canter.
We lose too many leads. Having the ability to shut up shop is another facet we need and it's not as simple as it sounds. When we're in the Champions League we'll be asked a hell of a lot of questions. No need to change his style, but Poch being a young manager will analyse and hopefully appreciate what Ranieri has done and add it to his teams.
Of course he doesn't, and of course I don't.
But I think, Poch understands that the circumstances of the chavs match were very special, and he understands why the players got carried away. He even did so himself to a degree. He wants that edge to our performances, though of course more contained and put to better use than was the case in the specific match and some other spots, you mention.
I don't think any rational person can understand why we got carried away with those incidents to be honest and i'll explain why.
We were 2-0 up at the time when most of those incidents took place. If chelski were 2-0 up at the time and we started doing this crap then Poch would have a point in "understanding why the players got carried away" but we started doing all this nonsense when we were controlling and comfortable. We were so fucking naive that we started reacting to everything (and sometimes even starting the nonsense) when there was absolutely no need....and this is the game after 1 of our players was banned for 3 games for kicking out (and another 1 very lucky not to be banned). How Poch couldn't get into their heads is quite frankly alarming.
Let's just agree to disagree then and end it here. Because I'm clearly not a rational person. We were in a dog fight, and contrary to the past many seasons, we showed up for the fight. I was, strangely, proud of the team on that night :lameladisgust:
He's had two seasons and he couldn't even best AVB's points total when handed it to him on a silver platter.
Poch has ridden this season on the luck of the top four teams imploding. But finishing behind Woolwich from such a leading position is inexcusable. Harry got sacked for for finishing in the top four and one, one point less than we finished today. Poch gets a new contract....before the season is even done.
I'm sorry, but a season must be judged on all 38 games, not just the ones until our title run was lost. The Chelsea game onwards has been totally unacceptable, and those games count, whether the happy clappers want to admit it or not.
I'm absolutely not saying that we get rid of him, but he has yet to prove himself any better than Harry or AVB. Proof is in the points total.
Unless we make some very key signings, next year we'll not finish in the top four and Poch will be sacked.
A points total is just one of many factors to judge a manager and his team. You can't first use it as stick to beat him with because he happens to have done worse than AVB in points, and then also ignore the fact that the reason we finished third isn't that top teams imploded but that we ended up with more points than 17 other teams :kanewtf:
I constantly worry about this.
I research it, think there's something there then we win a game or 2 and I let it slip. And then a few weeks later we'll implode. Very strange game, almost impossible to understand. We looked burnt out, only question is mentally or physically.
Poch kept saying we're physically fine. He didn't do this just once, but three times in different interviews. I remember Klopp said that it's about believing you are fit, no matter what a physio tells you. Seems like Poch is trying to do the same thing, convince the players they're fit.
Since the Chelsea game we've played relegation form.
It doesn't matter how many points we are above other teams. To play so poorly in recent games is in itself a disgrace. It's damned obvious we could have done better.
I'm not going to slag off Poch just yet. I said before that there may be times like this and we have to stand behind our manager, who has proved in 90% of the season that he's got what it takes to take us to the next level. But I was a bit surprised with his demeanor in the last two games. He seemed a bit too relaxed. I don't know if it was because we had already achieved direct-to-group CL qualification and everything else was moot after that. Or if he specifically gave instructions to the players to take it easy, in light of the fact the Euros, Copa America, and Olympics are coming up and wanted to give the players a bit of a break. And I also don't want to believe that having Dembele and Alli out could make such a big difference that we can't get at least a couple of draws from Newcastle and Soton. We're a better team than that. So I'll look forward to next year in anticipation that we'll show up for 100% of the season and show grit and determination in every single game, just as we did in our first 34 this year.
Like you said, we have to judge the season on all 38 games. Too many people are focused on the last 3.
Poch is a young manager and has things to learn, but for a majority of the year he's done fantastic work with this team. As fans, we've had the pleasure of watching some great performances this year. The attitude and excitement surrounding this group has been intoxicating and made for one of the best years I've had supporting Spurs.
He's built a squad that competes at a high level while entertaining the fans. Next season we'll get to compete on the biggest stage in club football, testing the lads even further. We'll see if Poch steps up to that test as well. How he doesn't have full support from this fan base is unreal to me.
Yes, yes it does. In fact it's the only thing that matters. Do you ever give over being a fucking thick cunt?
I get it - you're upset - but leave this bollocks behind you. You are embarrassing us as you have been all day. You really are a shit fan Salmon - a really, embarrassing, shit, fan. Oh your tortuous 16 years. Get in line you fucking wand.
Honestly, I can't wait for the culling to begin. I think Poch is rightly embarrassed today, and he already has the list in his head who's going to stay and not. He knows who is committed and who's not. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them don't already know, but they will soon I am sure.
The best thing about today is Pochettino took responsibility and I'm sure he knows now he has to get in players and he knows which players aren't good enough. Great to see Mason and Son being hooked at half time. Abject.
I hope Vertonghen goes as well. Fucking coward and has been his whole Spurs career. Wimmer is more than a worthy replacement.
I hope Vertonghen goes as well. Fucking coward and has been his whole Spurs career. Wimmer is more than a worthy replacement.