You have been around for a century then?It's been a business for a century. People complaining about it are a bit late to the party.
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You have been around for a century then?It's been a business for a century. People complaining about it are a bit late to the party.
An almost perfect description of success in football right there. Like our success in defeating Villa. Don't forget that in domestic cup competitions at least, you are not afforded the luxury of losing. Don't knock it. For a club that has won two League titles in its history, winning a cup represents a successful season.I guess you could argue about cup success but then by that measure, a lucky deflection determines success, right?
Some of this debate is bonkers. For a long long time I viewed Levy as a better the devil you know character. I have to say that lately I am not so sure.
Here's the thing. I do believe Levy is a fan of the club. I do believe that he wants success for it. However, I also believe he does see it as a profit making business and I believe that the whole notion of the new stadium is to make the club an attractive, debt free purchase for a new owner. I think he has got it into his head that in the interim short term success can be achieved by bringing in a new manager and giving that new manager a summer's worth of no net spend signings to see what can be done and them if the new dawn fails, rinse and repeat until it works. In other words, he'll do as much as he can before the profit margins are impacted, and that's when he'll go no further. But, in doing so, he is doomed to make the same mistake over and again because sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate in football.
Ultimately, where decisions like sacking Redknapp were concerned Levy made the same mistake as many fans. He assumed that we'd already become a top four side and needed to push on. He underestimated the challenge it was just to stay there. Now that things are going backwards he falls back on the same rinse and repeat as before and the effect is that fans now look at the dire football and regression and feel that they've seen all this before and don't believe the chairmen will make any bold decisions needed to truly back a manager. Rather it will be another sacking, a few more cheap deal players and so on. But, conversely, Redknapp himself may not have enjoyed the success he did without the special talents of Modric, Bale, VDV and, for a time, an in form Adebayor.
So really what it comes down to is Levy's adaptability. Does he learn from his mistakes? So far it would seem only a small amount...and I think that's why the fans are calling for his head, because they just see more of the same on the horizon and they are tired of the dire mess they watch every week that doesn't seem to represent the history of the club at all.
All that said, I'd be inclined to stick with him until the stadium is done (and those who think that's all a ruse by Enic are talking shit because challenges to compulsory purchases can indeed take time, sometimes years, to resolve). But once the stadium is done I'd maybe, as a fan, be interested to see what a new owner would bring. But, again, that in itself is a risk, so if we get a new owner who tanks the club, it'll be worth remembering that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
So, for now, yeah, probably still better the devil you know....
Some of this debate is bonkers. For a long long time I viewed Levy as a better the devil you know character. I have to say that lately I am not so sure.
Here's the thing. I do believe Levy is a fan of the club. I do believe that he wants success for it. However, I also believe he does see it as a profit making business and I believe that the whole notion of the new stadium is to make the club an attractive, debt free purchase for a new owner. I think he has got it into his head that in the interim short term success can be achieved by bringing in a new manager and giving that new manager a summer's worth of no net spend signings to see what can be done and them if the new dawn fails, rinse and repeat until it works. In other words, he'll do as much as he can before the profit margins are impacted, and that's when he'll go no further. But, in doing so, he is doomed to make the same mistake over and again because sometimes you have to speculate to accumulate in football.
Ultimately, where decisions like sacking Redknapp were concerned Levy made the same mistake as many fans. He assumed that we'd already become a top four side and needed to push on. He underestimated the challenge it was just to stay there. Now that things are going backwards he falls back on the same rinse and repeat as before and the effect is that fans now look at the dire football and regression and feel that they've seen all this before and don't believe the chairmen will make any bold decisions needed to truly back a manager. Rather it will be another sacking, a few more cheap deal players and so on. But, conversely, Redknapp himself may not have enjoyed the success he did without the special talents of Modric, Bale, VDV and, for a time, an in form Adebayor.
So really what it comes down to is Levy's adaptability. Does he learn from his mistakes? So far it would seem only a small amount...and I think that's why the fans are calling for his head, because they just see more of the same on the horizon and they are tired of the dire mess they watch every week that doesn't seem to represent the history of the club at all.
All that said, I'd be inclined to stick with him until the stadium is done (and those who think that's all a ruse by Enic are talking shit because challenges to compulsory purchases can indeed take time, sometimes years, to resolve). But once the stadium is done I'd maybe, as a fan, be interested to see what a new owner would bring. But, again, that in itself is a risk, so if we get a new owner who tanks the club, it'll be worth remembering that the grass isn't always greener on the other side.
So, for now, yeah, probably still better the devil you know....
If this is your yardstick then you ought to allow some context. Spurs were the first team to win the 'impossible' double in the 20th century, going into the 90s only 2 sides had done that. Utd did it THREE times in that decade, Woolwich did it once and Chelsea have done it this century.I think ENIC are very much a problem, probably the problem
They have presided over our worst trophy haul since the 1930s, now that's a major problem.
But it's got easier to win the Double it would seem.If this is your yardstick then you ought to allow some context. Spurs were the first team to win the 'impossible' double in the 20th century, going into the 90s only 2 sides had done that. Utd did it THREE times in that decade, Woolwich did it once and Chelsea have done it this century.
There is a smaller pool of winners since the PL was formed, in the FA cup there have only been 2 winners in the last twenty years that haven't come outside the top 4.
So basically its got harder to win things - or seems to have. If you regularly get top 4 you'll likely win something, if you don't you wont. That's really not an easy ask and is pretty harsh to use as a stick to beat ENIC with given our league finishes compared to when they took over.
I genuinely think that comes down to the bank balance. We could only really get an answer for that if a multi-billionaire took over the club and provided Levy with Man City/Chelsea levels of cash. We'd then see if he's carry on the same or spend big.Some excellent points. Perhaps what it boils down to is; is Levy a "top 4" chairman? Is he a man with the vision and chutzpah to enable us to get back to that level, and stay there?
At the end of the day we, as fans, can only speculate as to the involvement of Lewis. Some rumours say he takes an active role, others say he pretty much leaves it to Levy. As Levy is the publicly appointed figurehead whose job it allegedly is to run the day to day operations, he's ultimately the only person the fans can look to.I would tend to agree with Smoked Salmon.
But I would like to add that Levy may not have that much room to move, despite the fact that he is Lewis's representative on the Board, he is still only a minority shareholder and has to dance the tune that Lewis dictates.
I genuinely think that comes down to the bank balance. We could only really get an answer for that if a multi-billionaire took over the club and provided Levy with Man City/Chelsea levels of cash. We'd then see if he's carry on the same or spend big.
The problem we have is that there are no clubs in the rotation of the top four qualifiers (that is to say the clubs who have qualified more than once) that are of a comparable model. Liverpool, Woolwich and Man U all have vastly bigger fan bases and bigger stadiums so they can take more risk in short term debt (or in the case of the scum up the road, charge criminal princes for tickets). Chelsea and Man City goes without saying. Everton have nipped at the heels of the top four like us, but they are a poorer club, with much smaller support and no growth program (in terms of training facilities and stadium). So really our current "natural" position in the league is effectively in between the big elite clubs and the best of the rest. We have the capacity to break through the celing with a little work, or sink further down the pecking order with just a little less effort (as was obvious during the Sugar era, despite Sugar's assumption that he knew what he was doing). It's for these reasons that I think Levy is in a unique position and it's why I genuinely can't yet calmly call for his head as I think that the new training ground, new stadium and efforts to increase revenue from territories like America and the Far East are all built towards trying to give us a more sustainable jumping off point for top four competition. I think too many fans are too ready to call for his head without having a clue who the hell if going to come in afterwards, and whether or not the new owners would have any intention of maintaining such projects. The risk is of a club in our position is that someone might come in and asset strip it, and then people would be begging and pleading for Enic and Levy to come back, just as the amount of fans suddenly saying "we should never have sacked Redknapp" has steadily increased in recent weeks. Like I said above, it's the "grass is greener" syndrome. I don't think we need to discuss how many football fans only see things in the long term....
Does any club ( Spurs aside ) really give a honest shit about FFP ? City's punishment was laughable and they did not stop spending as a result. Chelsea, well a lot don't add up there as their natural revenue is not there to support the squad they have.
Like so many other things FFP looks like a nice place for Levy to hide. Not like they spent lots before FFP and they have now put the breaks on. According to the minutes from last weeks meeting with THST ENIC noted a net spend of 180 million on players in 13 years. Wow - that's 13.8 million a year from Revenue streams; Roughly 85% of the cost of Paulinho. Maybe if they adopted a policy of quality over numbers we might have had better results overall.
Also Levy noted there will be money available next Summer, shit a brick what about January ?
CJJ,
" I often see Levy as a big spurs fan"
Not on your nelly , pull the other one, it's got bells on !
I'm allowing plenty of context. In the 1950s there were only two trophies to win until 1957, the league and FA Cup. So for us to win the lge in 1951 easily eclipses the Lge Cup win in 2008 under ENIC. The Lge Cup wasn't available in 1951.If this is your yardstick then you ought to allow some context. Spurs were the first team to win the 'impossible' double in the 20th century, going into the 90s only 2 sides had done that. Utd did it THREE times in that decade, Woolwich did it once and Chelsea have done it this century.
There is a smaller pool of winners since the PL was formed, in the FA cup there have only been 2 winners in the last twenty years that haven't come outside the top 4.
So basically its got harder to win things - or seems to have. If you regularly get top 4 you'll likely win something, if you don't you wont. That's really not an easy ask and is pretty harsh to use as a stick to beat ENIC with given our league finishes compared to when they took over.
I'm allowing plenty of context. In the 1950s there were only two trophies to win until 1957, the league and FA Cup. So for us to win the lge in 1951 easily eclipses the Lge Cup win in 2008 under ENIC. The Lge Cup wasn't available in 1951.
Furthermore it's only in ENIC's time that 4th place got you in the CL. In the 'old days' to get into the European Cup you had to win your league. In the 80s and 90s we finished 3rd but got no EC/CL place. Indeed in 87 we didn't even get a UEFA Cup place as England was banned from club competitions in Europe.
ENIC have let us down, in my eyes and many others.