ENIC are not the problem

[CJJ]

Yeah, that's where you're going wrong mate.

Perhaps, but it's top of page 1 of Google - that's how I came to be here.

We'd lost to liverpool and I googled 'AVB spurs' and found pages of "get him out of the club".

I mean, there's a contradiction between the fans wanting to be heard and then saying 'they shouldn't have listened' if you get me.

The supporter's trust seems to conduct themselves as a secret society too, in some ways, which doesn't help.

 

[CJJ]

He negotiates for players. He likely works with Pochettino and Levy to put together lists of targets (there is never a list of one guy) and then makes the approach.

Our current squad is only partially a product created during Baldini's time at the club, and people overlook the timing of the signings when apportioning blame.

Our 3 most expensive players were bought through him, though, and as he's the link between manager and chairman, if the manager says 'I don't want that player' and Baldini negotiates and signs said player, he's at fault.

 

[Thelonious]

Perhaps, but it's top of page 1 of Google - that's how I came to be here.

We'd lost to liverpool and I googled 'AVB spurs' and found pages of "get him out of the club".

I mean, there's a contradiction between the fans wanting to be heard and then saying 'they shouldn't have listened' if you get me.

The supporter's trust seems to conduct themselves as a secret society too, in some ways, which doesn't help.

I don't think Levy goes on google, find a bunch of disgruntled fans on the internet, and makes decisions based on that. The atmosphere in the ground was not largely against all 3 of these managers, which is surely more likely to force a chairmans hand.

 

[CJJ]

I don't think Levy goes on google, find a bunch of disgruntled fans on the internet, and makes decisions based on that. The atmosphere in the ground was not largely against all 3 of these managers, which is surely more likely to force a chairmans hand.

Not saying he does, but even smaller businesses have teams who actively seek out feedback online to rely back to several people as evidence of 'consumer opinion'.

I'm not saying it necessarily contributed to any of the dismissals, but for the whole time I've been on here I've not seen the club do anything other than mostly what the mass majority of posters on here want, so it's a bit messed up to see people on here criticise the board for, essentially, doing what they would apparently do.

I'm glad that we don't have the same board that 90% of the PL have, so I'm content that at least ours is willing to show an interest in the club, build a mega training 'town' and be investing in a stadium. We could have someone like Kenwright/Ashley, after all.

 

[Joe Clash]

I've not seen the club do anything other than mostly what the mass majority of posters on here want, so it's a bit messed up to see people on here criticise the board for, essentially, doing what they would apparently do.

What, selling Bale and Modric etc. Appointing Poch (god help him) appointing Baldini, reportedly planning to play at MK? Raising EL prices, Stubhub. Come on mate that's simply not true.

 

[CJJ]

What, selling Bale and Modric etc. Appointing Poch (god help him) appointing Baldini, reportedly planning to play at MK? Raising EL prices, Stubhub. Come on mate that's simply not true.

Bale/Modric were convinced to stay one extra season - we need to get over those as a club as the players made it clear they weren't staying, and it just wouldn't work to "force" them to stay. At least we made good money and sold them outside of the PL.

As mentioned before, AVB requested Baldini so they supported the manager on that one. Wasn't Poch more of a Joe Lewis decision? (heard Levy preferred FdB?).


As for the prices and stubhub, we've got the 10th biggest stadium in the league with something like the 5th highest wages, so adding that in with the plan to afford to build a new stadium and, unfortunately, it just has to be seen as the fans providing the investment to the club that's needed through bums-on-seats.

A PL club has to be run like a business to survive, and it's the board's success at doing that which allows us to spend practically all the transfer money we receive.

I'm not saying they're perfect, nor do I want to be drawn into the trap of doing so, but things could be so much worse.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

Our 3 most expensive players were bought through him, though, and as he's the link between manager and chairman, if the manager says 'I don't want that player' and Baldini negotiates and signs said player, he's at fault.

The manager never said that though. He agreed with all of them

Baldini arrived on June 19.

Paulinho on July 6. So in 3 weeks Baldini had looked, targeted and approached him? AVB asked for him specifically, and Levy made him our record signing. He also wanted David Villa, who wouldn't come, and Damiao (probably a lucky escape for us there).

Chadli came as back-up on July 29, and then Soldado came on August 5. Capoue arrived as Sandro back-up on August 15, with Chiriches signed August 30, along with Christian Eriksen and Lamela.

There's been a convenient narrative that Baldini picked and signed 7 guys for Spurs to replace Bale, but that makes no sense. Eriksen and Lamela were definitely chosen to replace Bale's output, but Paulinho, Chadli and Soldado were part of AVB's original vision of a team built around Bale. Capoue was a depth signing to back-up Sandro. Chiriches is odd, but Caulker hadn't wanted to stay and fight for a place (getting relegated with Cardiff and soon QPR is definitely a much better career plan). We needed a ball-playing defender to replace him, and somehow he topped the list.

If AVB and Levy both agreed with all signings, and if AVB requested them, I can't see how this is all on one guy.

Levy didn't make sure everyone was on the same page. AVB had no idea what he was doing, and Baldini overpaid for a few guys. Does that make a case for anyone needing to go? I don't know.

 

[Joe Clash]

Bale/Modric were convinced to stay one extra season - we need to get over those as a club as the players made it clear they weren't staying, and it just wouldn't work to "force" them to stay. At least we made good money and sold them outside of the PL.

As mentioned before, AVB requested Baldini so they supported the manager on that one. Wasn't Poch more of a Joe Lewis decision? (heard Levy preferred FdB?).


As for the prices and stubhub, we've got the 10th biggest stadium in the league with something like the 5th highest wages, so adding that in with the plan to afford to build a new stadium and, unfortunately, it just has to be seen as the fans providing the investment to the club that's needed through bums-on-seats.

A PL club has to be run like a business to survive, and it's the board's success at doing that which allows us to spend practically all the transfer money we receive.

I'm not saying they're perfect, nor do I want to be drawn into the trap of doing so, but things could be so much worse.

Of course they could - but it's also conceivable they could be better. My point was the club/Enic has not been making decisions that the majority of the fans want - except in the case of knee jerk sackings.

I think de Boer paid for his 'Tottenham have approached me' comment. He was doomed from that moment on IMO.

 

[Aussie Ardiles]

We'd lost to liverpool and I googled 'AVB spurs' and found pages of "get him out of the club".

I mean, there's a contradiction between the fans wanting to be heard and then saying 'they shouldn't have listened' if you get me.

What is typed on a keyboard after a big loss is often irrational. There was no AVB-out chants or banners etc. at the ground, just as there wasn't for Jol or Redknapp either. If you asked the 30-odd thousand at the Lane on Wednesday after the Liverpool game should AVB be sacked & who realistically should come in I think the masses wouldn't have wanted them gone.

Same with Redknapp before or after the Champions League final. I have big doubts the masses (what's defined as 70%+) would have wanted him gone

 

[CJJ]

The manager never said that though. He agreed with all of them

Baldini arrived on June 19.

Paulinho on July 6. So in 3 weeks Baldini had looked, targeted and approached him? AVB asked for him specifically, and Levy made him our record signing. He also wanted David Villa, who wouldn't come, and Damiao (probably a lucky escape for us there).

Chadli came as back-up on July 29, and then Soldado came on August 5. Capoue arrived as Sandro back-up on August 15, with Chiriches signed August 30, along with Christian Eriksen and Lamela.

There's been a convenient narrative that Baldini picked and signed 7 guys for Spurs to replace Bale, but that makes no sense. Eriksen and Lamela were definitely chosen to replace Bale's output, but Paulinho, Chadli and Soldado were part of AVB's original vision of a team built around Bale. Capoue was a depth signing to back-up Sandro. Chiriches is odd, but Caulker hadn't wanted to stay and fight for a place (getting relegated with Cardiff and soon QPR is definitely a much better career plan). We needed a ball-playing defender to replace him, and somehow he topped the list.

If AVB and Levy both agreed with all signings, and if AVB requested them, I can't see how this is all on one guy.

Levy didn't make sure everyone was on the same page. AVB had no idea what he was doing, and Baldini overpaid for a few guys. Does that make a case for anyone needing to go? I don't know.

Again, I don't disagree - I was working off the previous mentioned assumption that the manager "didn't want" the players that were signed, and Baldini was, at that point, the voice of the manager to the chairman/board at the point each were signed.

So, on the assumption that players are signed that the manager says he doesn't want, the DoF is the most probable fall-guy.

 

[CJJ]

Of course they could - but it's also conceivable they could be better. My point was the club/Enic has not been making decisions that the majority of the fans want - except in the case of knee jerk sackings.

I think de Boer paid for his 'Tottenham have approached me' comment. He was doomed from that moment on IMO.

Just the same as LvG and Sherwood were perhaps digging their own graves by making private information public. Of course maybe LvG didn't want the job, but he close the door as soon as he opened his mouth.

I often think that hindsight is the fault here - if AVB or Poch had been top of the table at this point then the fans would have praise, the fact that we're currently struggling is down to other factors and all we can do as fans is support the team, be patient and hope for a swift turnaround (or some remedial action with players come Jan 1st)

 

[JDK]

The problem for me has been player recruitment. We had a lot of replacements that we needed to make due to the departures of Bale, Modric, VDV, Parker, BAE, Defoe, Dawson and the injuries of Sandro and Kaboul and we've just totally bottled it. The net spend is an issue for another post but we have spent 180m and not ended up with much. Of course, Lloris is a god, Vertonghen is a solid defender when he can be bothered, Chadli has a goal in him, and Eriksen, Lamela, and Dier have potential but besides that we haven't ended up with much.

Bottom line, we spent a lot of money and had a lot to replace and totally fucked it up. For me, that is down to Levy having far too much power in regards to footballing decisions. Hiring Baldini was not a good choice as well. He can clearly negotiate but his track record here and elsewhere is abysmal. Roma were happy to let him come to us.

 

[CJJ]

What is typed on a keyboard after a big loss is often irrational. There was no AVB-out chants or banners etc. at the ground, just as there wasn't for Jol or Redknapp either. If you asked the 30-odd thousand at the Lane on Wednesday after the Liverpool game should AVB be sacked & who realistically should come in I think the masses wouldn't have wanted them gone.

Same with Redknapp before or after the Champions League final. I have big doubts the masses (what's defined as 70%+) would have wanted him gone

Perhaps, but I think we both we don't know the full story and probably never will. I thought it was likely to be the end of Redknapp after he did a 180 over his contract and went from "the players don't care if I had 12 months left" to "If I don't get a contract extension, the players will get upset". He could well have swanned into Spurs Lodge like a Peacock and made some of his more common extravagant demands (% of player sales and so on) making his position untenable from a board POV. Just speculation, of course, on my part. Same with AVB, with I recall him saying he felt he should leave as he had lost confidence in his ability to turn things around.

I don't think we're in the position, as a club, to sack anyone and gain any credibility from it for some time, so the board will have little choice other than to support Poch anyway, IMO.

 

[Joe Clash]

Just the same as LvG and Sherwood were perhaps digging their own graves by making private information public. Of course maybe LvG didn't want the job, but he close the door as soon as he opened his mouth.

I often think that hindsight is the fault here - if AVB or Poch had been top of the table at this point then the fans would have praise, the fact that we're currently struggling is down to other factors and all we can do as fans is support the team, be patient and hope for a swift turnaround (or some remedial action with players come Jan 1st)

I don't mind us struggling for a bit, but I do want to see more accountability and transparency.

 

[CJJ]

I don't mind us struggling for a bit, but I do want to see more accountability and transparency.

I think the supporter's trust is a good place to start. All I ever hear is how they 'plan' on this meeting and that talk, but we (fans outside of the trust) never really seem to get much back on that, or at least not that I'm aware of.

I can't see how we can have a voice of the supporter and quell any unrest when the ST act like they are part of the inner sanctum

 

[Juicy Sushi]

I think the supporter's trust is a good place to start. All I ever hear is how they 'plan' on this meeting and that talk, but we (fans outside of the trust) never really seem to get much back on that, or at least not that I'm aware of.

I can't see how we can have a voice of the supporter and quell any unrest when the ST act like they are part of the inner sanctum

It's funny, I see them as very much the opposite, asking for things they often have no right to know, or taking pre-emptively unproductive positions.

 

[Legacy Lilywhite]

In some ways I think it's harsh to criticise ENIC as they have backed our managers with funds (except for when we really should have in January 2012) and fought hard for the stadium as well as providing a truly world-class training centre.

The trouble is, with footballing decisions, they keep panicking when the waters get a little bit choppy, sacking not backing, and then recruiting progressively worse managers. The odd thing is that panicking doesn't work in business, rash decisions don't work in business, shite recruitment doesn't work in business, having managers who don't speak the native language properly doesn't work in business, but all of this is how they are trying to run a football club... as a sound business??!!

 

[boomgoesthedynamite]

Good article expressing rational views... It'll never catch on!

 

[5purs]

The fans called for Redknapp, AVB's and Sherwood's head? I must have missed the mass demonstrations and torrent of chants demanding all these managers leave our club.

With all due respect, that is a tads wide of the mark, no? As an isolated example; the booing after the AC Milan away game? His position became untenable as the fan base was, at that time, completely split. heart condition, the tax case and the England job all contributing. (just for the record, I was 1000% in the "don't sack him" camp.)

Any fan who wanted Villas-Boas to stay isn't a true Spurs fan in my opinion, as he was the apitomy of every Tottenham tradition does not represent. The boring sideways passing was somewhat obscured by the brilliance of one Mr Bale. Him aside, after Redknapp Spurs became more boring than Tony Pulis' Stoke under Villas-Boas. I personally didn't care that much about the points haul, as I support Spurs not because of the points, cups or success but rather, the manner in which they carried on the traditions set down by Auther Rowe during the 50's. Playing football. This completely evaporated under the Portugese manager. The board were completely right to sack him.

Sherwood was sacked because he was never really the manager. He knew it, the board knew it and the fans knew it. He was a long term caretaker by all accounts.

Anyway, to keep to the topic, of course ENIC are the way forward and those who oppose this are the same short sighted groups that were behind Redknapp being removed.

Having said that, Harry did bring a lot of that on himself. I remember watching and interview, at the time, of Redknapp on the golf course talking at out how he was being hard done to but, he never mentioned the fact that the board had offered him a new contract just before his heart condition and the England job saga of which, he turned down. This was all happening while Levy was laying his Mother to rest. ( RIP Mrs Levy)

I don't blame the board for sacking Redknapp as, like I said, his position became untenable through both the fans split opinion of him 'blowing third' or 'his inept tactical nous' and him treating the club with disrespect.

 

[CJJ]

Having said that, Harry did bring a lot of that on himself. I remember watching and interview, at the time, of Redknapp on the golf course talking at out how he was being hard done to but, he never mentioned the fact that the board had offered him a new contract just before his heart condition and the England job saga of which, he turned down. This was all happening while Levy was laying his Mother to rest. ( RIP Mrs Levy)

I don't blame the board for sacking Redknapp as, like I said, his position became untenable through both the fans split opinion of him 'blowing third' or 'his inept tactical nous' and him treating the club with disrespect.

I agree Redknapp was self inflicted. He's mostly shown he's not exactly that good of a manger/mathematician in his other jobs, but for some reason Spurs & Harry just worked well.

Unfortunately, both got arrogant and felt the didn't need each other and have gone downhill since.