England squad

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Richard Arlison said:
Maybe we need to ask that question about Foden. It's not like he's never had chances to show it at international level is it? Maybe he's overhyped English tax as well.

He's in the form of his life for City and that was the best he could muster at home in a game when England had more of the ball? Palmer might have done more, maybe he should get the next chance against Belgium.
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What would English tax have to do with being City’s key player this season? Maybe he’s just another in a long line of players (not just for England) who don’t do as well for the NT because of endless reasons.

Southgate’s setup favours direct players, not technicians.
 
Richard Arlison said:
What does that actually mean?

Foden can't play on the counter?
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He can but he likes to play little one two’s, nice combination play in and around the box, fast football with the ball and teammates who actually move. He’s not a head down and run it down the wing type. Gordon was good because he does basic things which work in any setup.

We don’t even really play counter attacking football under Southgate, we just play very slow, very safe and we have seemingly no attacking plan other than win fouls and threaten from set pieces.

That’s why Sterling was so key to us for ages because his head down and dribble style at least unlocked some sides by forcing the issue. Bellingham is the most key guy now because he picks it up and just drives at teams.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Maybe we need to ask that question about Foden. It's not like he's never had chances to show it at international level is it? Maybe he's overhyped English tax as well.

He's in the form of his life for City and that was the best he could muster at home in a game when England had more of the ball? Palmer might have done more, maybe he should get the next chance against Belgium.
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Last night was on the coach as per, not the players.
 
Richard Arlison said:
Then we aren't winning the Euros
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He played the entirety of the last Euros, was one of our key players (Italy’s bench commented after the game they were shocked he got subbed as they thought he was our best player) and we only lost it on penalties.

It’s bollocks to suggest we couldn’t win a Euros with Rice at DM.
 
Deuterz said:
He can but he likes to play little one two’s, nice combination play in and around the box, fast football with the ball and teammates who actually move. He’s not a head down and run it down the wing type. Gordon was good because he does basic things which work in any setup.

We don’t even really play counter attacking football under Southgate, we just play very slow, very safe and we have seemingly no attacking plan other than win fouls and threaten from set pieces.

That’s why Sterling was so key to us for ages because his head down and dribble style at least unlocked some sides by forcing the issue. Bellingham is the most key guy now because he picks it up and just drives at teams.
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We have runners (Rashford, Saka, Gordon) AND technicians (Foden, Jude, Madz, Kane) + meat and spuds options like Grealish, Bowen, Toney & Watkins............ Palmer too.

We all know what the punchline to this 'joke' is.
 
Airfixx said:
We have runners (Rashford, Saka, Gordon) AND technicians (Foden, Jude, Madz, Kane) + meat and spuds options like Grealish, Bowen, Toney & Watkins............

We all know what the punchline to this 'joke' is.
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It’s the runners who consistently look the best for us. Or the set piece takers. Sterling for ages, Gordon today, even Rashford at the last WC when he actually played him.

Bellingham is both a runner + technician so he works. He’s the guy now we’ll look to for just individual stuff if we can’t score a set piece.

But mostly our game plan is 100% draw fouls and get balls in to box. It is where we score most of our goals. So we should probably play Grealish LW and be done with it.
 
Deuterz said:
It’s the runners who consistently look the best for us. Or the set piece takers. Sterling for ages, Gordon today, even Rashford at the last WC when he actually played him.

Bellingham is both a runner + technician so he works. He’s the guy now we’ll look to for just individual stuff if we can’t score a set piece.
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Which is why I want him played deeper.... Then Kane can drop in a bit more too (with Jude and another #8 still having license to run beyond him) and let the wing-rats play Gary-ball as our most advanced players.

Deuterz said:
But mostly our game plan is 100% draw fouls and get balls in to box. It is where we score most of our goals. So we should probably play Grealish LW and be done with it.
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How insipid.
 
Airfixx said:
Balls.... It's you that are talking "waffle" with your persistence in basing your whole argument around an unproven kid.

If you think Bowen is a step down from Gordon; you don't know these players very well.
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But I've never compared Gordon and Bowen directly as players at any point. But was Gordon not arguably our most lively player last night? So when he and Bellingham went off, our performance suffered a bit, which coincided with Brazil scoring from an error from Dunk and having their most dangerous spell. That's not blaming Bowen, but the subs were definitely weaker as a whole than those they replaced, as a collective.
 
Deuterz said:
We were absolutely dreadful. Didn’t create a thing. Brazil are in their worst form/shape ever and created multiple clear cut chances to our big fat zero.

It doesn’t have to mean much as a bigger picture (it was a friendly) but your insistence that a large chunk of turd was in fact not too bad is never going to go down well.
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They didn't create multiple chances though. They hit the post which came from a shot that was heading for the corner flag but fell to one of their players. Paqueta put a nice effort from 25 yards just wide. Then they had a chance in the last minute or two when England were chasing the game. Over 90 minutes, that's not a lot. Both keepers had little to do. Even their goal came from an error by our own defender.
 
RicharliSon said:
They didn't create multiple chances though. They hit the post which came from a shot that was heading for the corner flag but fell to one of their players. Paqueta put a nice effort from 25 yards just wide. Then they had a chance in the last minute or two when England were chasing the game. Over 90 minutes, that's not a lot. Both keepers had little to do.
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They had two one on ones in the game. If Vini Jr hadnt scuffed a shot we’d have been a goal down early.

We created NOTHING. Look at their backline and tell me creating nothing is even close to acceptable.
 
Richard Arlison said:
So, hopefully, last night kills any idea that Rice or Gallagher are 6's or even remotely elite level globally,

England could play Gallagher or Rice and same way we could play Sarr or Gallagher if we had him. Long term I'd prefer to have Sarr than either Rice or Gallagher. Tbh by the end of next season imo that's clear to anyone that watches football,
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To be fair Rice was good and the midfield wasn’t really the issue, we held Brazil in and dominated the ball for long period, we just didn’t have any creative plays which is more a coaching issue and our press was mixed allowing Brazil to hit dangerous counters.
 
Deuterz said:
They had two one on ones in the game. If Vini Jr hadnt scuffed a shot we’d have been a goal down early.

We created NOTHING. Look at their backline and tell me creating nothing is even close to acceptable.
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But he did scuff his shot though, and it came from a Maguire mistake. Not any good play. It's not like they carved us open time and again with brilliant football. I do agree that we didn't create enough and I've never said any different. But they were playing with two defensive midfielders and packed the defence when they had to. Playing at a pace friendly games always seemed to be played at, it was never going to be easy against a motivated team having that new manager bounce.
 
RicharliSon said:
But I've never compared Gordon and Bowen directly as players at any point. But was Gordon not arguably our most lively player last night? So when he and Bellingham went off, our performance suffered a bit, which coincided with Brazil scoring from an error from Dunk and having their most dangerous spell. That's not blaming Bowen, but the subs were definitely weaker as a whole than those they replaced, as a collective.
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There's no like-for-like Jude; but, again it feels necessary to point out the level of Rashford & Bowen....... both arguably better, more experienced players than Gordon (no knock on him btw). Is Dunk(*) really any worse than Maguire (plenty would argue he's better!)?

Equally lets not pretend Brazil had Zico, Socrates, Ronaldinho & R9 coming from the bench.


(*Regardless; I'm not focused on the scoreline...... It was a relatively experimental back-line....... They scored a goal..... Shit happens....)
 
Airfixx said:
There's no like-for-like Jude; but, again it feels necessary to point out the level of Rashford & Bowen....... both arguably better, more experienced players than Gordon (no knock on him btw). Is Dunk(*) really any worse than Maguire (plenty would argue he's better!)?

Equally lets not pretend Brazil had Zico, Socrates, Ronaldinho & R9 coming from the bench.


(*Regardless; I'm not focused on the scoreline...... It was a relatively experimental back-line....... They scored a goal..... Shit happens....)
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For England, Dunk is definitely worse than Maguire. Maguire is generally competent in an England shirt more often than not whereas Dunk looked like he was making his debut, despite being 32. I would also take Gordon over Bowen. But it's all about opinions.
 
Tomo said:
To be fair Rice was good and the midfield wasn’t really the issue, we held Brazil in and dominated the ball for long period, we just didn’t have any creative plays which is more a coaching issue and our press was mixed allowing Brazil to hit dangerous counters.
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I say this tongue in cheek; but that sounds like Gary talking........

The MF is very much an issue (perhaps THE issue) cos we need them to be able to meaningful in both an attacking and defensive sense.... Not just to have a bit of graft and lock down some low-impact possession stats.
 
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