Tommy Carroll

[TommyD123]

Bentaleb IMO would put Carrolls dick in the dirt in practically every aspect of the game. INCLUDING passing, assists and scoring

The rest of the game (heading, tackles, tracking, physical) its not even a question on how much Bentaleb would dominate him.

Sherwood took Benty...Who has been an AM. And put him as a general midfielder IN THE PREM with DM duties and he held his own. Imagine if he was actually played as an AM, his natural position?

IMO Carroll is soft Spurs classy incarnate. He got ragdolled in a lower league. You would be hard pressed to find a player QPR fans rated lower than him. Everyone is waiting for the next classy passer but the game is too fast these days. Hoddle, Gazza etc scored with passes. Carroll would take 30 seasons to match Hoddles time with Spurs esp in this climate of dull but Olympic training spoiling athletes cutting out passes in mid table teams.

Bentaleb IMO is the future. Not Carroll. Bentaleb is the stampy, frustrated, physical freak that modern football needs. Carroll era tappy tappy pretty football where the defenders can pass the ball back to the keeper (so he can grab and hold it for 60 seconds) so the rest of the frilly players can get their lungs back was when Spurs DOMINATED>

The game has moved on. The Tottenham Way era, where we won proper trophies coincided with players who smoked, drunk like fish and had goalies who could get passed back to and hold on to the ball until champagne charlies stitch went away just before a cup of tea at half time.

Mate, I've read ur "tiny dancers" argument loads of times over so you don't need to repeat it as on the whole I agree with the sentiment (if not the labelling).

However 2 points I would like to make are as follows:
A) By loaning Bentalab out to a prem side it is not writing him off or casting dispersions as to his ability but merely he's not yet indespensable to us and would therefore benefit from a loan to a team where he perhaps was without damaging us. Meanwhile TC who's been highly rated for a number of years by those in the know gets a chance to 'do or die'.
B) if you were at the glorious 1882 night at Underhill approx 12 months ago where they lined up in midfield alongside each other, Caroll was the star of the show that night (despite Bentalab scoring)

 

[gibbs131]

You keep going on about this 'Tottenham Way', as if to suggest we all hark back to the 60's and think we compare those players with todays.

Yep. Absolutely. Us going after Tottenham Way style players has kept us out of the title hunt for half a century. And gives money men like Lev an excuse to entertain and sell off top players like Modric and Bale as long as we get in another ball juggler.

 

[gibbs131]

You have condemned your own point. You said there is no room for 'tippy tappy' players - I listed them - and now you say they have all won things in different leagues. So there is a place then? Or isn't there? Or are they passengers in their respective teams as they lump it up to a big man up top?

You have to admit I have a point that the players you mentioned were in a slower less physical league.

 

[gibbs131]

So what? Modric is shit then? He was regarded as the pivotal midfielder for the current European Champions. It's not that black and white. Do you even read your own comments?

Gareth Bale (a genetic freak) saved their season. Modric is class, but we had Bale and Modric and could not finish above Woolwich. You take Bale out of Real? They had to sign the most expensive player in HISTORY to stop their slide. Modric joined them and they had their worst start in decades. They won nothing and had to turn to a powerful modern athlete like Bale to save their bacon.

They spent a billion on that team. I'm realistic.

Also talking about Carroll in this company is IMO the Lamelaphant in the room. Its like saying Danny Rose can be Ashley Close because he's quick. It's the lowest form of formum one upmanship because players are individuals.

This individual just got TERRIBLE reviews in a championship team. Lets not get carried away and start talking about CL champs eh?

 

[gibbs131]

However 2 points I would like to make are as follows:
A) By loaning Bentalab out to a prem side it is not writing him off or casting dispersions as to his ability but merely he's not yet indespensable to us and would therefore benefit from a loan to a team where he perhaps was without damaging us. Meanwhile TC who's been highly rated for a number of years by those in the know gets a chance to 'do or die'.

I don't think any of our loans have paid off when it has come to our prem starting 11. Townsend coming back was a disaster, and tack on Rose and between the two of them there was no way we were going to get 4th. Dos Santos did amazing on one stint on loan and what did we do? Sold him for peanuts and this season he could be seen upstaging Bale and Modric in the league.

IMO Bentaleb should be on our bench as an out and out AM and the loan obsession should be stopped.

 

[Millbanks]

Yep. Absolutely. Us going after Tottenham Way style players has kept us out of the title hunt for half a century. And gives money men like Lev an excuse to entertain and sell off top players like Modric and Bale as long as we get in another ball juggler.

Wow. What an odd state of mind you have.



Bale and Modric were sold to Real Madrid for a combined £110m+. We are Spurs. We cannot hold onto players of that quality when clubs like Real Madrid come offering that kind of money.

 

[cahspur]

I don't think any of our loans have paid off when it has come to our prem starting 11. Townsend coming back was a disaster, and tack on Rose and between the two of them there was no way we were going to get 4th. Dos Santos did amazing on one stint on loan and what did we do? Sold him for peanuts and this season he could be seen upstaging Bale and Modric in the league.

IMO Bentaleb should be on our bench as an out and out AM and the loan obsession should be stopped.

Hold on, you're saying we should stop loaning out players altogether? Or just ones on the fringe of the first team?

 

[gibbs131]

Wow. What an odd state of mind you have.

Bale and Modric were sold to Real Madrid for a combined £110m+. We are Spurs. We cannot hold onto players of that quality when clubs like Real Madrid come offering that kind of money.

I agree. But it's my opinion our stature is not bigger in the first place due to the Tottenham Way. Chicken and egg. There has been way too many Hudd's, Carrolls, Andertons etc that we celebrate but at the end of the day our goal difference has almost always been a problem.

And it's softies like Carroll that is at the soft core of this team. It's kinda why I went on a rant regarding Bentaleb because he has the drive, skill and prowess to make us physical AND entertaining.

 

[cahspur]

They spent a billion on that team. I'm realistic.

 

[gibbs131]

Hold on, you're saying we should stop loaning out players altogether? Or just ones on the fringe of the first team?

What good has loaning done for us?

Townsend is the most loaned player we have ever had and he was a disaster. Holtby was just raked over the coals by his manager. Rose was spectacularly bad. KPB was loaned out and we lost him before he became a star. Same with Dos Santos.

 

[cahspur]

Ftr though Gibbs, I agree that Bentaleb has most likely spelled the end of Carroll at Spurs. So ironic considering they built a fantastic midfield pairing together with the academy squad, but now Bentaleb just flat out offers more and is yet two years younger.

 

[cahspur]

What good has loaning done for us?

Townsend is the most loaned player we have ever had and he was a disaster. Holtby was just raked over the coals by his manager. Rose was spectacularly bad. KPB was loaned out and we lost him before he became a star. Same with Dos Santos.

Loans are not specifically intended to necessarily make players better immediately, they are to acquire experience and provide an opportunity to shop the player. What good is it to have these players just sitting on our bench? That's just depreciating value and destroying the entire purpose of the academy, no? The academy itself would ultimately end up having to close their doors if we eliminated the loan system. I think you're absolutely right that we've had a poor recent track record with the loans, but that doesn't mean we can stop altogether.

 

[Millbanks]

Gareth Bale (a genetic freak) saved their season. Modric is class, but we had Bale and Modric and could not finish above Woolwich. You take Bale out of Real? They had to sign the most expensive player in HISTORY to stop their slide. Modric joined them and they had their worst start in decades. They won nothing and had to turn to a powerful modern athlete like Bale to save their bacon.

They spent a billion on that team. I'm realistic.

Also talking about Carroll in this company is IMO the Lamelaphant in the room. Its like saying Danny Rose can be Ashley Close because he's quick. It's the lowest form of formum one upmanship because players are individuals.

This individual just got TERRIBLE reviews in a championship team. Lets not get carried away and start talking about CL champs eh?

Bale saved their season? La Liga Ronaldo 31 goals/9 assists. Benzema 17 goals/9 assists. Bale 15 goals/12 assists. Di Maria 4 goals/17 assists.
Champions League Ronaldo 17 goals/4 assists. Bale 6 goals/4 assists. Benzema 5 goals/5 assists. Di Maria 3 goals/5 assists.

At what point did he "save their season"?

What if you take Bale out of Real? They still have a quality side. But they still finished 3rd in La Liga this season so what point are you trying to make? Stop their slide? Worst La Liga finish in years.

What does the cost of Real's team have to do with anything? You're digressing massively and not addressing your own points, nor my counter arguments.

Again, I'm not COMPARING Carroll with Xavi or Pirlo on an ability basis - purely their style of football that YOU stated was outdated and historic. You have yet to address this point, seemingly preferring to change the topic to suit yourself.

Lamelaphant? Formum? You are losing it pal.

AGAIN - I AGREE that Carroll isn't good enough for Spurs. Are you reading what I write or simply what you want to read?

 

[gibbs131]

2010-11 squad cost almost $700 million to assemble. Since then they signed Modric, Bale etc etc. The average players wages is something like 8 million a year.

Between Real and Barca they have a billion dollar revenue stream.

 

[gibbs131]

Bale saved their season? La Liga Ronaldo 31 goals/9 assists. Benzema 17 goals/9 assists. Bale 15 goals/12 assists. Di Maria 4 goals/17 assists.
Champions League Ronaldo 17 goals/4 assists. Bale 6 goals/4 assists. Benzema 5 goals/5 assists. Di Maria 3 goals/5 assists.

At what point did he "save their season"?

Cup 1:


Cup 2:

 

[moley]

I don't think any of our loans have paid off when it has come to our prem starting 11. Townsend coming back was a disaster, and tack on Rose and between the two of them there was no way we were going to get 4th. Dos Santos did amazing on one stint on loan and what did we do? Sold him for peanuts and this season he could be seen upstaging Bale and Modric in the league.

IMO Bentaleb should be on our bench as an out and out AM and the loan obsession should be stopped.

Townsend was doing as instructed then got injured. He was an out and out winger on the left that got asked to play the "Bale" role cutting in and shooting, he obviously needed more training on it as he wasn't comfortable playing a role he wasn't used to.

Don't look at things like a horse. aulinhofacepalm:

 

[gibbs131]

Townsend was doing as instructed then got injured. He was an out and out winger on the left that got asked to play the "Bale" role cutting in and shooting, he obviously needed more training on it as he wasn't comfortable playing a role he wasn't used to.

Don't look at things like a horse. aulinhofacepalm:

I don't know what AVB was thinking. Bale leaves, and he gives the key to our attack to someone who has not scored or created worth a damn during his entire pro career at any level.

I don't like bashing Townsend because I don't see it as his fault. But he got a fat contract out of it during the hype in Oct so good for him.

 

[cahspur]

2010-11 squad cost almost $700 million to assemble. Since then they signed Modric, Bale etc etc. The average players wages is something like 8 million a year.

Between Real and Barca they have a billion dollar revenue stream.

Ah right, how silly of me. US dollars should be the automatically assumed currency when discussing European football clubs.

 

[moley]

I don't know what AVB was thinking. Bale leaves, and he gives the key to our attack to someone who has not scored or created worth a damn during his entire pro career at any level.

I don't like bashing Townsend because I don't see it as his fault. But he got a fat contract out of it during the hype in Oct so good for him.

As soon as he got that contract he was injured and struggled to come back ever since.

AVB saw him as the same type of player, left winger attacking dribbler that can shoot......ish. Tried to retrain him to an inside right winger cutting in. Failed.

 

[TommyD123]

I don't think any of our loans have paid off when it has come to our prem starting 11. Townsend coming back was a disaster, and tack on Rose and between the two of them there was no way we were going to get 4th. Dos Santos did amazing on one stint on loan and what did we do? Sold him for peanuts and this season he could be seen upstaging Bale and Modric in the league.

IMO Bentaleb should be on our bench as an out and out AM and the loan obsession should be stopped.

Were either Rose or Townsend worse players upon returning from their respective loans?
I would argue that despite their contributions this season the loans they went on put them in a better position to make those contributions I the first place