No doubting Wimmer's talent, however he has Vertonghen ahead of him. When Verts hasn't played big Kev has and that was against Gillingham. I expect WImmer to get another run out against the Dippers next week.
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No doubting Wimmer's talent, however he has Vertonghen ahead of him. When Verts hasn't played big Kev has and that was against Gillingham. I expect WImmer to get another run out against the Dippers next week.
Good problem to have really. I think Wimmer could walk into any other side in the league, just shame for him he is behind the best CB pairing in the league.
Unfortunately i think that means we will lose him in the next couple of windows.
He arguably has the potential to be better than Vertonghen, and is younger. Plus at the moment he doesn't come with the constant transfer speculation.
Essentially what i'm saying is that the Vertonghen we have now isn't the Vertonghen we have had always, he has had long spells of indifferent performances. So there is an argument to say that we cut him loose and take a gamble on player who has the potential to be superior.
(Disclaimer: I don't really think we should do this, just playing devil's advocate really, but its nice to know that if Verts does fuck about with his contract then we can say "oh well, shut the door on your way out, - Step up Big Kev"
I couldn't agree more. I am not doubting Vertonghen's class but in all honestly we looked just as solid defensively with Wimmer in the side during our title chase last season. I really appreciate Jan but wouldn't lose much sleep if we sold him on and Wimmer stepped in.
I'm not so sure about the superior argument, he's younger yes, he's better in the air but when it comes to tackling, positioning, technique, variety in passing and intelligence i think he'll be happy to reach the levels Verts has reached in his career. Surpassing looks unlikely, at least i think it does
And yet it's Wimmer himself who has recently hinted about a transfer.
Agreed.
He deputized very very well but he's not on Vertonghens level. I also think the way our team lines up and plays, especially defensively, you're bound to look very good. For example, I don't think CCV would have looked out of place.
You can't begrudge a player looking for regular first team football. Being aloof when you're first choice in your preferred position is another thing.
Let me reiterate; i'm not saying we should get rid of Vertonghen. Has there ever been any concrete proof of his perceived attitude problem. Apart from a period where he appeared to be going through the motions, being played out of position by AVB and under Sherwood (who can blame him). There are plenty of other players in the first team that have completely re-invented themselves (or been re-invented) since then, but because Vertonghen isn't seen as a badge kisser....
My long winded point is that we have to make a calculated decision about whether its better to lose Wimmer and risk missing out on a better player in the long run.
I don't know the answer to that.
It may be redundant when CCV becomes the next Ledley anyway.
To be honest, I like Big Kev, but if he's going to keep talking about the lack of chances he won't stay long at the club.
We need players that need to understand that they have a role to play. At the moment he is behind Jan V on merit. Potential here or there, if he shows enough Poch will put him before Jan. In the meantime he should keep showing his quality in training and if he isn't happy with the situation and he feels he needs to go - well, young man, there's the door. No player is bigger than the club, and certainly not one that have played a bit more than a dozen games for the club.
We need players that need to understand that they have a role to play. At the moment he is behind Jan V on merit. Potential here or there, if he shows enough Poch will put him before Jan. In the meantime he should keep showing his quality in training and if he isn't happy with the situation and he feels he needs to go - well, young man, there's the door. No player is bigger than the club, and certainly not one that have played a bit more than a dozen games for the club.
While I am not opposed to your idea, I think it is a different situation. The way we set up there is a huge workload piled on our fullbacks, not as important to rest our CB's as it is our fullbacks.
My last argument about his situation... The only outfield player over 30 to have played since Poch's arrival has been Adebayor. We need alot of fitness. And the thing is, realistically, we are not going to find an upgrade on Wimmer, who is willing to be on the bench behind Vertonghen. If Wimmer goes, another young left-footed CB will come. If he doesn't get chances, he will be gone as well.
I fully believe and trust in Poch. But he really could have given him those 90 minutes yesterday.
I fully believe and trust in Poch. But he really could have given him those 90 minutes yesterday.
Bit worried that we might lose Wimmer (Fairly humble, young, talented) for Jan (Ageing, no new contract, not exactly a leader).
Jans contract runs out next year, if I remember correctly, and even if he signs an extension he's getting on a bit and has 2 years left at the top level. I'd be fairly careful, Wimmer will be the answer once Jan leaves.
Some are painting this as a CCV vs Wimmer situation, but as others have said, Poch won't play a left footer at RCB or vice versa. Makes no sense (The Cb passes to the full back on his side and we play out like that...if you put a left footer at right cb they're influenced to pass it back to their CB partner, due to his stronger foot, which gets us nowhere).
Purely a Jan vs Wimmer debate, and I think the two are far too close for the situation to be as one sided as it currently is, although at the same time you want a partnership to be stable and not constantly changed.
Wimmer won't get half the time he did last year, due to no EL. Touchy situation. I just hope we don't lose Wimmer - he will develop and become even better and instantly solves the issue of Jan leaving.
Jans contract runs out next year, if I remember correctly, and even if he signs an extension he's getting on a bit and has 2 years left at the top level. I'd be fairly careful, Wimmer will be the answer once Jan leaves.
Some are painting this as a CCV vs Wimmer situation, but as others have said, Poch won't play a left footer at RCB or vice versa. Makes no sense (The Cb passes to the full back on his side and we play out like that...if you put a left footer at right cb they're influenced to pass it back to their CB partner, due to his stronger foot, which gets us nowhere).
Purely a Jan vs Wimmer debate, and I think the two are far too close for the situation to be as one sided as it currently is, although at the same time you want a partnership to be stable and not constantly changed.
Wimmer won't get half the time he did last year, due to no EL. Touchy situation. I just hope we don't lose Wimmer - he will develop and become even better and instantly solves the issue of Jan leaving.
You are ignoring the fact that the message coming from Poch's lips is he is in his plans. Also, that all the evidence and messaging from the club is we are building a squad of young players for the future not just hear and now.
I thought Poch's explanation of why he was not in the squad was very rational. Don't understand why there still is any doubt.
Aye, in his plans as back up CB. Which no player will be happy with forever, especially if you're gonna be playing 10-20 games a season and losing your national place to people inferior.
But it's not going to be forever
He's young and will get his chance and I'm sure Poch has made him aware of this
I'm quite confident we'll find a new left footed CB if Wimmer leaves. The chance can come over night with Jan getting a long term injury. But he needs to wait. If he can't, well...
...Because it's not about Poch's thoughts on the matter (all they do is clear up the conspiracy theories)... Ultimately, if Kev is unhappy he will leave, whether he is articulated to be in Poch's plans or not. If you read closer, it's quite clear from Poch's comment's (even if the sentiment is differing) that Kev doesn't stand to get ANY time from the bench so a handfull of domestic cup games and waiting for Jan to get an extended spell injured is all that is on the immediate horizon for Big Kev (and we already know his feelings on that front from his OWN comments!).
[URL='http://www.thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/members/jayc1.6014/']Jayc1[/URL] said:
Absolutely.... Regardless of the sentiment attached to either player in the equation, we really owe it to ourselves to be approaching such an issue from the above mind-set... Afterall, we are typically acknowledged to be buying for the future whenever we step into the market.... There certainly won't be any big money, PL-ready, top CB brought in to replace JV (There is no £10m Toby available every window, much like there isn't a £5m Dele or a procession of Kane's waiting to graduate from the youth ranks!)... Isn't a Jan --> Wimmer transition (or equivalent) essentially what that blueprint is all about?
Edit: As an aside, can I also mention that Wimmer's forward passing is sexy as fuck!
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When someone talks about "conspiracy theories" and there avatar is a Guy Fowlkes mask, forgive me for jumping to my own conclusions on what agenda you choose to take. For me Poch has made it blatantly clear who is in his plans and who isn't, just ask Bentaleb, Paulinho, Capoue and Abdebayor, in each of these cases he came out in a press conference and said "they are not in my plans". So for you to dismiss what the Manager says ("it's not about Poch's thoughts on the matter") is absurd. It matters what he says, because he is our Manager and when the situation demands straight talking, he gives it straight and direct. He could not have been any clearer.
Regarding Wimmer: Of cause he wants game time, of cause he wants to play more. He is behind the best centre back pairing in Europe right now, so of cause his game time is limited. Wimmer has also acknowledged this too. There was nothing wrong with his comments, I said this at the time, in fact I like that he is frustrated, I like that he is desperate to play. There is no issue here, non what soever. Move on, nothing to see.