Yves Bissouma

[TottsAmazeballs]

View: https://twitter.com/SimplyWink/status/1777444191682879666?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1777444191682879666%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

I've re-wound and stepped through that a few times now and I can't see this as Biss's fault. He's covered a lot of ground and Udog is the one who should have tracked that runner. You can see Biss check his mirrors and then when he realises Destiny isn't tracking, he accelerates too late.

But, it was double-nutmegs for the goal, on Romero and Porro, so quite a bit of luck involved...

 

[Shadydan]

This entire move is about VDV, no one else.

If VDV doesn't get drawn to the oppo then there is NO WTF gap for anyone to fill. Just look at the 2nd clip you posted, the example is crystal clear the difference between the two attacks is what happens when he stays home or jumps out.

PEH fills in what?? Who is PEH stopping? He's just standing behind VDV there is NO opposition player there, the Oppo are at CF who Romero is marking and can do so properly because VDV has held his position. There's another attacker making a run to the back post, who is covered by Porro (and as the move develops it's shown how this is defended).

There is a NEW WTF gap though, and that's the space PEH has created by being too deep (behind VDV), whilst this isn't a serious thing, he's covering no one and now there's a space for a square ball to be played in front of the defence or one even cut back if the attacker wants to go to the by-line, neither of these become options if PEH is 5yrds higher i.e in the position that Biss is in in the example for the first goal.

But I stress, this goal is not about Biss, it's not about Destiny, Porro or Romero, it's all about VDV getting it wrong, something he doesn't do in the 2nd clip.

VDV needs to engage though, unless you think he should just let the ball carrier have a free run but that's not realistic because at some point he would need to engage the ball carrier, no defender just stays in their position when you have players advancing in on goal, it's just not realistic.

Regardless of all that okay let's just go with what you said and put blame on VDV, we still had opportunities to stop that goal, you don't think Romero should come across? You don't think Bissouma should at least do his level best to see the space and run into it? Ange won't see that as an individual error, he will see it as a collective error.

Putting that goal down to one player is just far too simplistic and wasn't the point I'm making anyway, I wanted to highlight Bissouma's role, I want my 6 to at least recognise the danger and cover the gap like Hojbjerg did, that is where we need to upgrade, I don't think Bissouma sniffs danger very well.

 

[BernardMatthews]

I think Biss is doing a man-marking roll on their 10, as he covers his move across the pitch, but I think he remains in a good position throughout all of this move, the ONLY player to remain in his position.

The fact he has not made this mistake in the 2nd example is cool and shows he is aware of what he got wrong for the goal. I guess the more we play the better we get.

Opposition extended highlights usually pay more attention to their goals. Nice angle here.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Hc2dX7J0E

So it shows here at 3.24 we have still got a decent shape. Bissouma has already run about 30 yards too at this point.

But then Destiny gets pulled out, Timo is never really defensively alert at all and VDV makes his split second decision to run into a space where he’s never going to make a challenge or block on the ball.
Within 3 seconds our shape goes to shit!!

At 3.27 you can see if VDV was running back to cover the corner of the area and staying closer to Romero we wouldn’t be in as much shit. But he gets caught in no man’s land.

Even at this point Timo is closest to their runner if he was tasked with tracking their FB. I wonder how much defensive responsibility the coaches put on our wingers to track back in instances like these though? He doesn’t even bother really closing space in the build up.
Son, Maddison and him are just out for a little jog. Zero pressure on the ball.

Fair play to Forest. Used the whole width of the pitch and totally took our defensive shape to pieces. You can imagine City and Liverpool will be looking closely at this as they are masters of holding width.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

VDV needs to engage though, unless you think he should just let the ball carrier have a free run but that's not realistic because at some point he would need to engage the ball carrier, no defender just stays in their position when you have players advancing in on goal, it's just not realistic.

Regardless of all that okay let's just go with what you said and put blame on VDV, we still had opportunities to stop that goal, you don't think Romero should come across? You don't think Bissouma should at least do his level best to see the space and run into it? Ange won't see that as an individual error, he will see it as a collective error.

Putting that goal down to one player is just far too simplistic and wasn't the point I'm making anyway, I wanted to highlight Bissouma's role, I want my 6 to at least recognise the danger and cover the gap like Hojbjerg did, that is where we need to upgrade, I don't think Bissouma sniffs danger very well.

He absolutely doesn't need to engage. Again, take a look a the 2nd clip you posted, this is exactly what he does, he does NOT engage the player at all, he lets him run unopposed, and holds his position, which means everyone else also held their position. The result, the attack is well-defended with all our defenders in front of the goal and marking their man. In fact, in doing this he's slowed up the attacker slightly meaning that Destiny can put pressure on him as he goes to cross the ball (in the example when they scored Destiny is drawn to the wrong man as VDV runs out of position to the player on the ball, this man is even further away from him that the attacker on the ball making it all the more impossible to get to him). The only oppo player that has separation from one of our defenders in this 2nd example is Hudson-Odi, which is okay as he's going to receive the ball at an impossibly tight angle from a ball that won't have pace on it as it has to be lofted across our defenders to get to him, and can do nothing with it (Porro, is well placed to stand him up if Hudson-Odoi chooses to bring the ball down rather than attempt to shoot).

Once VDV is drawn across the pitch we are fucked, end of. It's asking too much of Romero, he's put in a stick-or-twist position. We are asking Destiny to turn into Usain Bolt, there is no way he's making up the ground. As I said Biss is the ONLY player that holds his correct position but even if he too turns into Usain Bolt and comes towards the attacker, then he just cuts the ball back to Biss's man and he'll be unmarked and free in our box running onto the ball with still no defender in place.

Again, I want to know exactly what PEH prevented when he went into that gap, what did he stop? And what did he prevent by dropping into this position? Is he blocking a passing lane? No. did he prevent the cross? No. It's mute because the attacker chose to cross the ball to the back post but with PEH in that gap the attacker is presented with another option, which is to play the ball square or cut it back, if PEH is just 5 yards higher this option is cut off.

Biss was the ONLY outfield player that held his position, whilst everyone else was out of position as a direct consequence VDV.

I'm not dishing out any hate towards VDV, I love the fella, just calling out this goal was on him entirely, it simply doesn't happen if he does what he did in that 2nd example. I'm delighted he didn't engage in the 2nd example, his discipline then was exemplary (you can even see the exact moment when he switched fully on because you can see him change his run, which puts a smile on my face because he knows, he knows not to get pulled out as he did in the first half) and as a direct result enabled our defence to keep its shape and remain in total control and defend the attack making it look so easy.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Opposition extended highlights usually pay more attention to their goals. Nice angle here.


View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S4Hc2dX7J0E

So it shows here at 3.24 we have still got a decent shape. Bissouma has already run about 30 yards too at this point.

But then Destiny gets pulled out, Timo is never really defensively alert at all and VDV makes his split second decision to run into a space where he’s never going to make a challenge or block on the ball.
Within 3 seconds our shape goes to shit!!

At 3.27 you can see if VDV was running back to cover the corner of the area and staying closer to Romero we wouldn’t be in as much shit. But he gets caught in no man’s land.

Even at this point Timo is closest to their runner if he was tasked with tracking their FB. I wonder how much defensive responsibility the coaches put on our wingers to track back in instances like these though? He doesn’t even bother really closing space in the build up.
Son, Maddison and him are just out for a little jog. Zero pressure on the ball.

Fair play to Forest. Used the whole width of the pitch and totally took our defensive shape to pieces. You can imagine City and Liverpool will be looking closely at this as they are masters of holding width.

I'm treating the roles of our attackers and our FB's in these situations as out of the game, it's our choice to play with just two covering CBs if our FB's can defend then I see that as a bonus. In the example posted that has VDV drawn out for the goal vs the one when he stays in position, it is noticeable however that when VDV doesn't engage it does at least slow the attack down a fraction and means Destiny can put pressure on as the cross is attempted (the distance to the player on the ball is also shorter for Destiny than to go for the spare man).

 

[nicoclaesen]

Rabiot is pretty average tbh and is getting old. He doesn't play as a DM for Juve, Locatelli does and he's pretty good, I wouldn't mind getting him.

Onana at Everton is another one, but he'll be expensive.

My mate is a massive Everton fan and thinks Onana is overrated. He thinks he’s decent at most things but not going to get a game for any of the top 5 this season. I’ve seen him a few times other than against us and quite like him to be fair. We all see different things. We have players we don’t rate and opposition fans rate them highly. Deki is the one that springs to mind

 

[BernardMatthews]

I'm treating the roles of our attackers and our FB's in these situations as out of the game, it's our choice to play with just two covering CBs if our FB's can defend then I see that as a bonus. In the example posted that has VDV drawn out for the goal vs the one when he stays in position, it is noticeable however that when VDV doesn't engage it does at least slow the attack down a fraction and means Destiny can put pressure on as the cross is attempted (the distance to the player on the ball is also shorter for Destiny than to go for the spare man).

Yeah you will know a lot more than me as you go to games.

Goes back to the old defending Ds doesn’t it.
First one always Delay!!!

 

[nicoclaesen]

He just gave up tracking, far from the fucking first time either.

Lol@Deutershite calling him consistent and yet again bringing up Harry fucking Winks.

Udogie is to blame for the goal. He doesn’t track the runner because he’s a lazy defender. This needs to get knocked out of his game as it happens a lot. He jogs too much and sometimes he can’t react to things that happen. He has to do the basics of tracking g runners and stopping crosses better. He also struggles with switches of play as does Porro. Porro gets his body shape better to deal with it but Udogie seems all over the place with it.
What I will say about him when it’s a 50/50 or 60/40 in favour of the opposition when running with a winger to get a ball he’s absolutely top notch. He’s still a kid and will learn the art of defending with experience because he was more of a wing back with Udinese.
Going forward I still think he could do more and get those legs opened up Bale style because he’s a monster running with the ball. He’s had a very good first season and the scary thing is there’s so much more to come from him.

 

[Shadydan]

He absolutely doesn't need to engage. Again, take a look a the 2nd clip you posted, this is exactly what he does, he does NOT engage the player at all, he lets him run unopposed, and holds his position, which means everyone else also held their position. The result, the attack is well-defended with all our defenders in front of the goal and marking their man. In fact, in doing this he's slowed up the attacker slightly meaning that Destiny can put pressure on him as he goes to cross the ball (in the example when they scored Destiny is drawn to the wrong man as VDV runs out of position to the player on the ball, this man is even further away from him that the attacker on the ball making it all the more impossible to get to him). The only oppo player that has separation from one of our defenders in this 2nd example is Hudson-Odi, which is okay as he's going to receive the ball at an impossibly tight angle from a ball that won't have pace on it as it has to be lofted across our defenders to get to him, and can do nothing with it (Porro, is well placed to stand him up if Hudson-Odoi chooses to bring the ball down rather than attempt to shoot).

Once VDV is drawn across the pitch we are fucked, end of. It's asking too much of Romero, he's put in a stick-or-twist position. We are asking Destiny to turn into Usain Bolt, there is no way he's making up the ground. As I said Biss is the ONLY player that holds his correct position but even if he too turns into Usain Bolt and comes towards the attacker, then he just cuts the ball back to Biss's man and he'll be unmarked and free in our box running onto the ball with still no defender in place.

Again, I want to know exactly what PEH prevented when he went into that gap, what did he stop? And what did he prevent by dropping into this position? Is he blocking a passing lane? No. did he prevent the cross? No. It's mute because the attacker chose to cross the ball to the back post but with PEH in that gap the attacker is presented with another option, which is to play the ball square or cut it back, if PEH is just 5 yards higher this option is cut off.

Biss was the ONLY outfield player that held his position, whilst everyone else was out of position as a direct consequence VDV.

I'm not dishing out any hate towards VDV, I love the fella, just calling out this goal was on him entirely, it simply doesn't happen if he does what he did in that 2nd example. I'm delighted he didn't engage in the 2nd example, his discipline then was exemplary (you can even see the exact moment when he switched fully on because you can see him change his run, which puts a smile on my face because he knows, he knows not to get pulled out as he did in the first half) and as a direct result enabled our defence to keep its shape and remain in total control and defend the attack making it look so easy.

Okay fine if you want to blame VDV then I don't have a problem with that, my point is that our other players didn't do enough to stop that goal and close the gap, it's just way to simplistic to put blame on one part for that goal even if he was the root cause, that's not how football works.

What PEH did was form a back 4 when Destiny went out of position, actually the defensive line in the 2nd highlight is perfect, in fact look at any defensive transition in every other team, CB's get pulled out of position all the time and midfielders normally cover for them or they all shift across to stay in shape, it's just really basic stuff you learn at schoolboy level.

On the first goal though you tell me any CDM worth their salt doesn't stop the danger when that gap opens up between our CB's, instinctive CDM's will do that because they have in their psyche to fill in and cover which is what Hojbjerg did on that goal, in fact since VDV went walkabout then I'll re-iterate this as well Romero should shuffle across with Porro to keep the shape, basically either Romero/Biss need to do their level best and make sure that gap is closed.

 

[Shadydan]

Udogie is to blame for the goal. He doesn’t track the runner because he’s a lazy defender. This needs to get knocked out of his game as it happens a lot. He jogs too much and sometimes he can’t react to things that happen. He has to do the basics of tracking g runners and stopping crosses better. He also struggles with switches of play as does Porro. Porro gets his body shape better to deal with it but Udogie seems all over the place with it.
What I will say about him when it’s a 50/50 or 60/40 in favour of the opposition when running with a winger to get a ball he’s absolutely top notch. He’s still a kid and will learn the art of defending with experience because he was more of a wing back with Udinese.
Going forward I still think he could do more and get those legs opened up Bale style because he’s a monster running with the ball. He’s had a very good first season and the scary thing is there’s so much more to come from him.

Look scapegoating one player and saying it's x's fault is just missing the point, it's a collective failure.

The reason why I posted it in here is to highlight Bissouma's role, I could have posted the first vid in Romero's thread as well.

 

[nicoclaesen]

Look scapegoating one player and saying it's x's fault is just missing the point, it's a collective failure.

The reason why I posted it in here is to highlight Bissouma's role, I could have posted the first vid in Romero's thread as well.

Not scapegoating. Stop it at source then it’s not an issue. If Udogie sprints to Hudson odoi when the ball is on the way to him he can only go back the way. He jogs out and then doesn’t match the run. That’s where the goal comes from. It’s just that wee bit more intensity is needed from him and they don’t score in that situation. Against better teams that leads to more than one goal over the course of the game if we continue to defend like that.
I’m critical of Udogie in that situation and it’s something I’ve noticed in his game. I think he’s a cracking player though and will only get better and better.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Okay fine if you want to blame VDV then I don't have a problem with that, my point is that our other players didn't do enough to stop that goal and close the gap, it's just way to simplistic to put blame on one part for that goal even if he was the root cause, that's not how football works.

What PEH did was form a back 4 when Destiny went out of position, actually the defensive line in the 2nd highlight is perfect, in fact look at any defensive transition in every other team, CB's get pulled out of position all the time and midfielders normally cover for them or they all shift across to stay in shape, it's just really basic stuff you learn at schoolboy level.

On the first goal though you tell me any CDM worth their salt doesn't stop the danger when that gap opens up between our CB's, instinctive CDM's will do that because they have in their psyche to fill in and cover which is what Hojbjerg did on that goal, in fact since VDV went walkabout then I'll re-iterate this as well Romero should shuffle across with Porro to keep the shape, basically either Romero/Biss need to do their level best and make sure that gap is closed.

And I'm saying there isn't anything our other players could have done, once VDV commits we are cooked. They are out of the game, they wouldn't be if VDV doesn't commit.

We have chosen to play with 2 CBs left at the back with our FBs pushed up the pitch, this is our choice, our acceptable risk, it requires us to be disciplined and make the right decisions, get that decision wrong and we concede as per Forrest (and as with others). I'm very comfortable with this and accept the risk and the fact that our defenders still have some learning to do. (I might feel differently if we play someone in this manner and get tonked, we will find out in the next 7 games for sure as we meet some very capable teams who have the personnel to do some damage, players capable of winning 1v1's will provide an even stronger test).

Destiny is not out of position, he is asked to play high, so the oppo will always attack this space behind him (same other side of the pitch). Destiny is playing where we want him to play. It doesn't mean he won't attempt to cover runs, he does but in the 2 examples given there isn't anything he can do for the goal, as VDV has gone out to the wrong man (this man should be Destiny's man) so the only option left for Destiny is to now track the free player who's cut in, who's further away from him and goal side of him too. (in the 2nd clip he does just get to the attacker (his man) and put pressure on him as he's crossing the ball.

We don't need to be in a back 4 line in this phase. What does this achieve, who are we trying to play offside? This phase isn't about holding a defensive line but about defensive shape, where we are 3v2 at the start of the move then 2v2 when VDV is drawn out (Biss making up 15yrds in the space of 20yrds merely makes it a 3v3 with 2 of them free and unmarked).

We were cooked the moment VDV jumped to the attacker, that's it. Destiny isn't getting to the guy that cut in, Biss isn't getting to him either, if he does then the man he just left is now free, Romero isn't getting to his man, and Porro isn't getting to his (unless the latter two get extremely lucky whilst they are spread-eagled in their desperate lunges). The shape you want happens if VDV doesn't commit.

 

[daveyboy88]

seems to be getting a bit of stick. bissouma is a very good player. the midfield have all been hindered by the front 3 being well below the standard required. its hard for the midfield to really shine when the front 3 aren't up to it. once the front 3 gets upgraded to the level it needs to be, we have great midfield options. biss, sarr, bentancur, madders....thats champions league standard.

 

[Shadydan]

And I'm saying there isn't anything our other players could have done

Nonsense sorry and you're still missing the point but nvm.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

Nonsense sorry

All you have to do is watch the two clips, the answer is on display. Clip 1 we are cooked; clip 2 in complete control.

As an identical attack as you can plausibly expect to find for comparison of how to defend vs how not to. And more importantly the consequence of what happens when we fuck it up because our rest defence is high risk and difficult to recover from if we fuck it.

 

[Shadydan]

All you have to do is watch the two clips, the answer is on display. Clip 1 we are cooked; clip 2 in complete control.

As an identical attack as you can plausibly expect to find for comparison of how to defend vs how not to. And more importantly the consequence of what happens when we fuck it up because our rest defence is high risk and difficult to recover from if we fuck it.

This is a pointless debate, we're not going to agree so yeah

 

[Pól]

Eye rollHe had COVID and it effected him worse than most of his fitness/age profile.

He had Malaria and suffered seemingly, with his form poor up to the point of contracting it.

These are textbook signs his biochemistry is prone to running overly acidic.

He needs loads of greens, alkaline minerals, Omega3/Oxylipins.

 

[SeeSpotRun]

Rice and Hojberg are definitely 8's

Look at their heat maps, they're no more 8s than Biss is

 

[TomHotspur]

Look at their heat maps, they're no more 8s than Biss is

My unshakable belief that Bissouma would be such a more effective player for us in the ‘8’ position that Sarr and Bentancur play in than the base of the midfield/6 he plays in is a sword I’m willing to die on.

He is just so so unsuited to the 6/DM position, particularly in Anges system where it is such a vital position.

 

[sudoku]

I am beginning to doubt whether he has the right mentality.
When he was confident he was great,