Woolwich (h) 18/19 ratings

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dannythomas said:
I’m not the greatest Sissoko fan either but if you’re going to say that Eriksen was unlucky not to score when he was at point blank range then you’ve got to include the fact that Sissoko was even more unlucky not to score from the rebound with his perfectly struck shot producing a brilliant save from the keeper.
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That's fair, will amend OP accordingly.

dannythomas said:
As far as the criticism of Son is concerned, as others have pointed out, if he’s not playing up front as the main striker then he should be playing wide, running at his full back ( Woolwich’s weakest link ) and cutting in which he does so well. Playing as a second striker alongside Kane was too narrow and reduces Son’s effectiveness. It was interesting that Lamela had some success out wide when he came on and there is a case for playing Lamela ( rather than Moura in a case like that ) and Son as the wide players rather than just relying on our full backs to cross the ball into the box which they repeatedly failed to do .
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Again, it's a fair point, I touched on it when alluding to us playing the two as Central strikers (saying I don't like it and I don't think it's effective) and I completely agree, for me Son is best as a wide forward, ideally in a 433 type set up, but I think that goes for Lamela and Moura too. I'm not a huge fan of Moura, but Poch continually using him as some kind of dual striker is really not doing him any favours.

dannythomas said:
I also think you’re being extremely harsh saying Lloris could have saved the first goal. That was 80% down to Sanchez and 20% Sissoko.
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I didn't say he could/should have saved it, I just think he made it too easy. And, I definitely think Sissoko deserves way more blame than that. He just lets Ramsey run past him. What if Sanchez had not tried to nip in front of Lacazette then Ramsey would still have been through? Either eventuality Sissoko has to read that Ramsey is the only danger and react to it. If he does, it matters less that Sanchez makes an error, because there should be no way Ramsey outruns Sissoko with the ball. I just know if that was someone like Trippier, he'd be getting mullered for doing something like that.

dannythomas said:
Oh and Wanyama’s performance cannot be given any mitigation. He shouldn’t have been selected if he wasn’t ready . He probably will never be ready based on what we are seeing from him.
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Come on, Wanyama's played a handful of games in the last two years, it takes players time to get match sharp even after normal circumstances, let alone what he's been through, and then to be chucked into that tactical shit show in a NLD. I'm not sure we'll ever see the real Wanyama again, but I certainly don't expect to see it in these circumstances.

I don’t think Eriksen’s been woeful for a couple of months, I think we have collectively. Injuries to Kane, Alli, fatigue from the summer catching up??His standard is so high, his meh is more useful than many of our lot’s great most of the time. And very few of our players are great right now.
 
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bus-conductor said:
Nadir

It's been a pretty dire few weeks for Pochettino, this last seven days particularly bad with yesterday possibly the nadir.

For some peculiar reason, Poch persisted with the 3CB system that proved so ineffective, offensively and defensively, against both Burnley and Chelsea.

To compound the structural befuddlement, he selected Wanyama and Sissoko as a midfield double pivot. This is the most footballingly limited midfield combo we've seen since his atrocious Dier/Wanyama experiment at the start of 16/17.

There's mitigation for Wanyama, he's played a handful of games in the last two years, but to play him and Sissoko meant no tick tick control, fluidity and creativity from our midfield yesterday. Combined with the structure, it was an utterly baffling choice. The extra body in defence marking one Woolwich striker, the two narrow strikers, again, just ahead of a central ACM, all occupying that narrow congested sector of pitch.

It basically puts the entire burden of creativity on the full backs, and when those full backs are Rose, who rarely produces anything composed, and a Trippier who's been going through possibly the leanest spell of creativity of his Spurs career, it was a recipe for another pretty creatively defunct display.

This was a game of very little quality from either side. Woolwich seemed to get praised for merely turning up and parking a bus, but I don't even think they parked it great, we were just so devoid of inspiration and the ability to drive a game to, through and from midfield - to transition.

Their goal was a clusterfuck chain reaction that started with Kane inexplicably deciding to fuck about instead of getting a shot off, Sanchez making a pigs ear of nicking in to win a ball, Sissoko allowing Ramsey to waltz past him and have a free run to goal and rounded off nicely by Lloris having a sit down.

The second half just degenerated into a complete farce with Poch's comical substitutions and tactical musical chairs, which ended up with Rose trying, and failing horribly, to do his Moussa Dembele impression.

As with the Burnely and Chelsea games, the subs just made things worse not better. We became a confused and incoherent mess and as a result, they looked as much like getting a winner as we did. Why he didn't just take a CB off is anyone's guess. I mean what does say about the LWB when he feels he has to switch a CB out to LWB to improve the creativity? We ended up with our LB at CM, Our CB at Left Wing, our ACM as DM, lumping balls up to the Spanish Crouch.

If VAR was already here chances are we don't even get a draw out of this game. Neither team deserved to win it. Just as neither team deserved to win in on Wednesday.

Individual

Lloris - Poor on the first goal, great save for the pen.

Trippier - Overall he played pretty well, was far more involved than Rose for example, and was unlucky not to get an assist for a lovely free kick, but I was disappointed with his end product yesterday, wasted a couple of great situations second half.

Alderweireld - Another game where I thought he was less than perfect. But generally OK.

Sanchez - Like Trippier against Chelsea, I thought apart from his fuck up he played well defensively.

Vertonghen - Generally good game, and an absolutely outstanding block after the penalty.

Rose - Piss fucking poor, offered nothing as a WB all game then decided to play Moussa Dembele dribble roulette when moved into central midfield late on.

Sissoko - Another pretty poor game. A couple of forward surges where he ends up overrunning the ball and giving it away was the highlight. Piss poor letting Ramsey run off him for their goal, but did do well to chase down Aubamayang second half and take the ball off him.

Wanyama - Was equally unimpressive, but has barely played last two years, so hard to expect much.

Eriksen - I think this was actually his poorest game lately. Unlucky not to score, but just didn't contribute much else of tangible quality and wasn't involved enough either. Some of that was the lack of midfield and his tactical deployment, but not all.

Kane - Needs to stop trying to do his Messi impression and keep it simple when he's not up to match speed.

Son - This is the king and yang of Son. A player capable of brilliant moments, but not a brilliant player. Can go games and periods like this, where he looks really fucking ordinary. Doesn't press well, without the ball either.
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Agree the CM position was ultra defensive and lacked creativity, but with Winks injured, Dier injured and Dele injured Poch didn't have too much choice unless Poch was going to give the inexperienced Skipp (probably more creative than either Sissoko or Wanyama) a start.

Lamela's often unfit and I'm not sure Poch really fancies Moura, although he did start the season well. so the forwards pick themselves - and in turn I think the absence of any real choice up front dictated that Poch went for a 3 CB formation.

Problem with the team/formation is there's not a lot of creativity.

Will be good when Dele, Winks and Dier are back.
 
Lloris - 7 - good save from the penalty
Tripper - 6 - defended well and recovered from the Chelsea OG
Toby - 6 - didn't do anything wrong
Sanchez - 3 - probably his worst ever game, did the basics wrong
Vertonghen - 7 - match saving block on the penalty rebound
Rose - 5 - massive effort but minimal quality
Wanyama - 4 - sadly finished at this level
Sissoko - 6 - another player who put in a huge shift but simply lacks quality
Eriksen - 5 - still struggling to affect games
Son - 5 - couldn't get into the game
Kane - 6 - incredibly rusty but was never going to miss that pen

Lamela - 5 - put himself about
Llorente - 3 - just fouled

The lads put in massive effort and the way the game ended will hopefully restore some confidence and pride, but we need to sort out our midfield and team structure ASAP. The lack of a true CDM in the team is killing Eriksen, he is having to come so deep and cover spaces defensively that he simply isn't able to do. Sissoko can cover the grass but he can only react, he doesn't anticipate danger or really know where to position himself as a defensive midfielder. As soon as Dier and Dele are available we need to return immediately to the 4231 that the players all know.
 
bus-conductor said:
Eriksen - I think this was actually his poorest game lately. Unlucky not to score, but just didn't contribute much else of tangible quality and wasn't involved enough either. Some of that was the lack of midfield and his tactical deployment, but not all.
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I watched a tactical analysis of the game on YouTube. Regarding Eriksen, the guy pointed out that he was man-marked by Guendouzi in the first half and Torreira in the second. Also mentioned how he only completed 32 passes (he averages 53) and did not play any key passes (normally averages 2).
 
Five said:
I watched a tactical analysis of the game on YouTube. Regarding Eriksen, the guy pointed out that he was man-marked by Guendouzi in the first half and Torreira in the second. Also mentioned how he only completed 32 passes (he averages 53) and did not play any key passes (normally averages 2).
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That doesn't surprise me at all, I'm pretty sure Cheslea did the same on Wednesday night, and I'm pretty sure I mentioned them doing it in the cup game too.

I think pitching Eriksen into that ACM role just makes it easier for the opposition to do it too.

You got a link?
 
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bus-conductor said:
I think this is becoming a “thing” with Alli out, smart managers know if they stop Eriksen, they pretty much stop us.

I’m sure Sari did it, and it resulted in the first game under Poch where we haven’t had a shot on target in a whole game.
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I intend to have another look at the Chelsea game. Just rewatched the second half of the NLD. Torreira was keeping a close eye on Eriksen to begin with, but not for the entire second half. Nevertheless, Eriksen's passing was of a very poor standard. One of the reasons he probably didn't see much ball is because the fucking thing was up in the air for about an hour.
 
sammyspurs said:
Scrolled down to Sissoko read the first line, binned this shite thread

If you can’t do it without an agenda, dont do it at all. All the while probably thinking Sessengon was like Messi today.

From the BBC
There were pluses for Spurs in the outstanding performance of Moussa Sissoko but they currently look a side short on spark

Plus every single Spurs fan I know, and 99% of people on here thought he was excellent.
Putting the goal on him while flippantly ghosting over it and heaping praise on Sanchez shows how out of touch you are.

Its boring and deliberately dishonest.
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I just do not understand how that performance from Sissoko could be deemed good, let alone "outstanding" or "excellent".

In a game in which our midfield was utterly abject, devoid of impetus, lacking any tempo or creative spark. Winks got through more ball away to Chelsea than Sissoko and Wanyama put together against Woolwich. And if this was about quality over quantity that would be fine, but it's absolutely not. Sissoko lacks intelligence, creates nothing, initiates nothing with clever vision or intuition. The best we get is a couple of bulldozing charges upfield, with him overrunning the ball and coughing it up. The rest of what he did was basic, rudimentary stuff.

he was also very culpable in their goal, allowing Ramsey to run past him, just stood there and stuck his fucking hand up. Can you imagine the fucking slaughtering Trippier would have got if he'd done that?


If the criteria for MOTM or being deemed excellent is so low, then Trippier would have been a much more worthy candidate. He was excellent defensively, saw a shit load more of the ball than Sissoko did, completed double the passes, in defensive, midfield and forward areas, and made bette use of the ball (3 key passes, Sissoko 1), set up a goal that was disallowed for offside (not his fault) also played a nice ball into the channel for Son (I think) which was about the one incisive pass anyone made all game. He wasted a couple of great opportunities to put better crosses in, but then it's not like Sissoko created anything either is it. Sissoko made 15 forward passes in 93 minutes FFS.

So why would people call that performance great from Sissoko?

You accuse me of having an agenda, but my not rating what Sissoko offers is far more rational than your spending every week week telling us Eriksen is shit.

I do not rate Sissoko. What is there to rate about Sissoko, if you value intelligent (offensive and defensive) football, technical ability, cognitive functionality (defensive or offensive)?

He doesn't want the ball under pressure, he stands there hiding and pointing while people like Winks do his fucking workload and their own. When he has the ball there is no game brain, it's a hot potato 90% of the time. We are in a funk as a team, we have been outscoring our performances and performance metrics for a long time (and that's not just a casual observation - it's supported by performance analysts like stats bomb) because of people like Kane and Eriksen, and one of the reasons we are in a funk is having stupid units like Sissoko where our midfield footballing engine and brain should be.

I watched about 50% of every minute of every single one of Sissoko's games at Toulouse, don't rate him then, didn't rate him at Newcastle, even as an AM. And nothing he's doing now has made me rate him. I credit him for things he does, like the challenge on Aubameyang, or when he's had OK game. But there is very little he does that a kid from our academy couldn't do for about a tenth of the wages. He creates fuck all, he rarely ever instigates anything that leads to fuck all. He doesn't want the ball under pressure, what fucking use is that in a league where everyone pressures? He never plays an incisive pass to his full back, he has massive defensive lapses that I've continually highlighted, one that contributed to the goal against Woolwich.

I didn't like watching Dier in our midfield, so why should I enjoy watching Sissoko. It's not a personal agenda against Sissoko, it's a personal preference for a set of values.

I find the jingoistic tub thumping about him much more illogical, especially coming from someone who calls one of the most hard working and productive players in this league who plays for us "shit". Idiotic hypocrisy.
 
groundhog day 295612566

fucking give it a rest

sissoko is clearly not great. We have no other midfielders available. Is he doing a decent job - yes. do we all want better next season - yes. is winks better? yes. Is that relevant? no.

now fuck off
 
bus-conductor said:
he was also very culpable in their goal, allowing Ramsey to run past him, just stood there and stuck his fucking hand up. Can you imagine the fucking slaughtering Trippier would have got if he'd done that?
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There were two other moments that were not a great deal better-zero marking of Monreal when he cut the ball back for Lacazette (who should have scored) and did nothing to help Trippier when Iwobi took him on before getting a shot on target.

And by the way-Eriksen is playing very poorly. It's OK to admit it, you know.
 
Trippier was excellent defensively :roseunsure:

Fucking Iwobi was enjoying having a run at him

Sissoko spends a lot of time on the right wing babysitting Trippier. If we had a right back who can look after himself defensively we'd have the extra body in the middle more often and become tighter. In spite if that Sissoko does two jobs at once amicably.

Has it ever occurred to you that so many people saying the same thing isn't that we're all stupid but you're not as smart as you think so?

Your paragraph about watching Sissoko at Toulouse and Newcastle can be applied to any player. I've watched Trippier enough times to say his attacking threat is vastly overrated and the fact he gets so much of the ball is a symptom of why we are worse off than two years ago. Walker wasn't in the team to create for our forwards and he certainly isn't there for Man City.
 
Five said:
I watched a tactical analysis of the game on YouTube. Regarding Eriksen, the guy pointed out that he was man-marked by Guendouzi in the first half and Torreira in the second. Also mentioned how he only completed 32 passes (he averages 53) and did not play any key passes (normally averages 2).
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When we miss Dele teams are able to stay close to Christian. Personally I think it's huge when we lose one or the other of our attacking quartet. The thing that bothers me is the lack of responsibility you get from others, most notably in our right back department. Rose at least tries to take them on, that's literally all I was from our fullbacks, a desire to at least try and get in behind without waiting for a through ball pass to get it to happen. Take on your opposition and you'll get more free kicks, more corners etc. I've been hugely disappointed with Aurier as I genuinely think there's a good fullback in there. The fact he is still 2nd choice right back nearly 2 years since joining is rather telling
 
bus-conductor said:
That's fair, will amend OP accordingly.



Again, it's a fair point, I touched on it when alluding to us playing the two as Central strikers (saying I don't like it and I don't think it's effective) and I completely agree, for me Son is best as a wide forward, ideally in a 433 type set up, but I think that goes for Lamela and Moura too. I'm not a huge fan of Moura, but Poch continually using him as some kind of dual striker is really not doing him any favours.



I didn't say he could/should have saved it, I just think he made it too easy. And, I definitely think Sissoko deserves way more blame than that. He just lets Ramsey run past him. What if Sanchez had not tried to nip in front of Lacazette then Ramsey would still have been through? Either eventuality Sissoko has to read that Ramsey is the only danger and react to it. If he does, it matters less that Sanchez makes an error, because there should be no way Ramsey outruns Sissoko with the ball. I just know if that was someone like Trippier, he'd be getting mullered for doing something like that.



Come on, Wanyama's played a handful of games in the last two years, it takes players time to get match sharp even after normal circumstances, let alone what he's been through, and then to be chucked into that tactical shit show in a NLD. I'm not sure we'll ever see the real Wanyama again, but I certainly don't expect to see it in these circumstances.

I don’t think Eriksen’s been woeful for a couple of months, I think we have collectively. Injuries to Kane, Alli, fatigue from the summer catching up??His standard is so high, his meh is more useful than many of our lot’s great most of the time. And very few of our players are great right now.
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bus-conductor said:
That's fair, will amend OP accordingly.



Again, it's a fair point, I touched on it when alluding to us playing the two as Central strikers (saying I don't like it and I don't think it's effective) and I completely agree, for me Son is best as a wide forward, ideally in a 433 type set up, but I think that goes for Lamela and Moura too. I'm not a huge fan of Moura, but Poch continually using him as some kind of dual striker is really not doing him any favours.



I didn't say he could/should have saved it, I just think he made it too easy. And, I definitely think Sissoko deserves way more blame than that. He just lets Ramsey run past him. What if Sanchez had not tried to nip in front of Lacazette then Ramsey would still have been through? Either eventuality Sissoko has to read that Ramsey is the only danger and react to it. If he does, it matters less that Sanchez makes an error, because there should be no way Ramsey outruns Sissoko with the ball. I just know if that was someone like Trippier, he'd be getting mullered for doing something like that.



Come on, Wanyama's played a handful of games in the last two years, it takes players time to get match sharp even after normal circumstances, let alone what he's been through, and then to be chucked into that tactical shit show in a NLD. I'm not sure we'll ever see the real Wanyama again, but I certainly don't expect to see it in these circumstances.

I don’t think Eriksen’s been woeful for a couple of months, I think we have collectively. Injuries to Kane, Alli, fatigue from the summer catching up??His standard is so high, his meh is more useful than many of our lot’s great most of the time. And very few of our players are great right now.
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I’m not saying it was Wanyama’s fault that he is not ready but he shouldn’t have been playing since he clearly is still a shadow of what he was before. As others have said playing him in under 23 games to try to regain some match sharpness would have made sense.

As for Eriksen it’s very frustrating when he’s not performing because he’s so key to the team. In the same way that Son stepped up when Kane was out ( and Son has more reason to be exhausted than Eriksen ) it would have been nice to see him at his best while Alli has been out. But he hasn’t.
 
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