Wolves (a) 18/19 ratings

[Guido 🇺🇦]

With regards your Dier point, Dier’s actually been playing in most of the other games where we’ve been a mess, lost control and in some cases lost leads this season. Very much not the panacea to any of our ills.

My self confessed anti-Dier-in-midfield bias is completely surpassed by your anti-Trippier-anywhere bias. Blaming him because Foyth made two stupid challenges is just plain daft. He was to blame for giving away possession in a stupid area, but had absolutely nothing to do with Winks giving the ball away for the second goal. And on both occasions your blue eyed boy Foyth committed completely rash and needless fouls when there was no danger to our goal.

I don't have unconditional love for Trippier, Ive called out what he did badly in his last two games, have always said I don't think he's always brilliant defensively on occasions, but for me it's always been about compromise, as it is with most of our players, we accept if they were world beaters, they probably wouldn't be with us. I don't think Trippier has generally cost us much defensively, and his midfield and attacking play is productively better than most in this league. Again, we won that game partly because Trippier created the best chance in that game. You cannot just ignore his positive contributions. I also used to watch Walker (and Rose) do stupid things defensively (Poch did improve this somewhat but he's still doing them) and more recently Aurier. If we can upgrade Trippier for a player who defends brilliantly but is also as productive creatively then I'm all for it.

Davies made a bigger error and was saved by a linesman.

I also didn't say the lack of cover was just down to the midfield, but also the front four.

It's kind of apt that following on from a great discussion in the youth thread over the last few days, we saw another great example of Poch not walking his talk of his book and being "brave" with the young players anymore. What we were absolutely crying out for in that game was the tenacious defensive dynamism and industry of Skipp. If not immediately when Dembele went off, then clearly when we'd lost control that second half. And what we really need more than anything, and what would help all our defenders - because at least three out there got exposed and made bad errors - is Poch to get back to having us play as a cohesive team without the ball, not a bunch of individuals. Grow some bollocks and play kids better suited to their roles than plodders like Sissoko and Dier in midfield. Play with some fucking intensity again.

Please, mate, I urge you to watch the build-up to the 2nd pen again, then come on here and try to defend Tripps. In that passage of play alone typifies everything that I see from him in almost every single game he plays. I'll say it again and will only stop saying it when it doesn't happen, but when he plays the oppo target him, every team no matter the quality of it sees him as the weak link. It so, so, so easy to get behind hin he may as well not be there, he not just bad but he's a liability. Our shape, our style you cave is compromised because of what he doesn't bring to the team, not what he does bring to the team (he's a massive part of the jigsaw that isn't fitting now, not the sole reason but for me the biggest reason). Please, please watch it back. Also, watch when the ball is just put up in the air towards him an aimless punt soon becomes an opportunity as he treats the ball/change like a hot potato. I acknowledge his cross, the only one that found his man. All the others resulted in us losing possession of the ball, with him stuck up the pitch, now there's that style thing again, this is why we can't press as we used to, it's simply physically impossible to do so when we give away possession with 9 out of his 10 delivers. Davies was shit, gave him our 2nd lowest score.

Whilst I'd love to have seen Skipp come on, you will not find a bigger fan of him than me, that is still a massive call for Poch to make. I can't get shitty about it, why? Because we won and for large periods we had control of the game, only the last 30-20mins did we lose control. Could we have brought him on at this point? There's an argument for this of course but look how hard Sanchez found it when he came on, Wolves were "do or die", they had nothing to lose giving us the full court press could he have handled that? Also, with so many proper first team players out yesterday that risk is magnified, few "big" players to help him through the game.

If I'm going to have a gripe about lack of academy players playing then the one player that we should have playing for is Adam Smith instead of Tripps, now there is an FB (who can also play LB!!) that is twice the player Tripps is and is one of our own.

 

[iz futbal]

Trippier was shite and useless. Also hes got a horrible habit of whining at players around him when he messes up. Prefer Aurier.

Foyth didnt paint himself in glory. Both penalties were avoidable.

With Dembele injured now, Dier or Wanyama has to play (even if they are poor replacements). Winks wont go face first towards danger.

We won while giving out two penalties , so cant complain too much.

 

[Spursidol]

It was so predictable that we would hit problems in centre midfield this season with Wanyama and Dembele both likely to get injured at any time just crossing the road or getting out of bed. I share your lack of enthusiasm for Dier as a midfielder. Now if Poch did not think Skipp or any of the young reserves could do the DM job then presumably he told Levy that if nothing else he needed a reinforcement in that area during the summer window. In which case Levy was the one who failed to grow some bollocks.

In the meantime maybe playing Foyth in the DM role may be one temporary solution.

With Vertonghen injured and now Dier as well, we are down to 2 CB's in Alderweireld and Sanchez with Foyth in reserve.

Since e can't play a player 3 times in a week, we will need to rely on Foyth ton rotate in and out as a CB and whilst he looks fine, at age 20 and having only played half a dozen times for Spurs (and only a couple of times in Argentina) he needs to be brought on gently, so if he only plays say 10 or 15 games this season that's probably good for him and means he'll be good to play a lot more next season.

Whilst the same 'breaking in gently' applies to Skipp as well, whilst I would agree with Poch bringing on Son when Dembele went down, at 3-0 up I would have hoped Poch would bring on Skipp for the remaining 30 minutes or so (ie very manageable for Skipp and ideal development) as at that point it was clear that the CM2 were not coping and making it a CM3 with Skipp would have made Spurs a lot more solid to see out the rest of the game - particularly as it was apparent even then that Sissoko in particular was tiring and Winks not far behind.

 

[Spursidol]

And one other thing. Trippier is clearly much more suited to a wing back role than as a regular full back. So is Rose. Probably KWP too. If Dier gets fit he or Foyth could be the the 3rd CD.

Trippier is certainly one to play only with 3 CB's at the back in a wing back role.

Rose, KWP and Aurier are fine with either formation - whilst recognising that playing as a wing back they do go up and down the line and that means will get caught up field from time to time. Its just Tripper is not as good a defender and isn't as fast so is even more exposed than most

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

There was a lot going wrong when Costa got through for a 1v1 with Lloris, but look at the fucking state of Trippier- plays him onside and doesn't even see his run. He did something similarly daft against Juventus. I don't know how many times he gave the ball away in the first half either. It's not that I dislike him-I'm sort of on the fence with him, but he is playing like a fucking donkey at the moment. And his tatoos don't make him look 'ard either.

 

[GDN]

haven't bothered reading other posts but the most noticeable aspect of our defender, for me, was just how easy it was for them to knock the ball into the channels or out wide. High line with almost zero effective pressure being applied on their back 4 or midfield. This is something we did really fucking well for 2-3 years and its fallen apart this season. Defenders don't get a pass for stupidity but when you play a line like we do, defending really does start from the front. We seemed to be playing 4-2-4 at times and the 'front four' were doing fuck all to prevent the defenders hoofing the ball up the pitch . Shocking stuff really.

 

[Mick Cooper]

Another superb post match analysis. Unbiased and unafraid to firmly hit nails on their heads. Great write up.

Here's my ratings

Hugo 8
Trippier 6
Toby 8
Foyth 3
Davies 5
Winks 4
Sissoko 4
Lucas 7
Lamela 8
Son 6
Kane 6

(Eriksen 4 Sanchez 5)

3 MotM candidates for me.
Hugo. inspired performance and showed just why he's still a class act.

Lamela. Driving force behind everything going forward. Now a vital part of the machine. Now gives me a stalker seeing his name on the teamsheet.

Toby. When you have a calamatous rookie as your CD partner, and that rookie clumsily gives away 2 penalties, you need a strong , reliable rock to hold it altogether. Toby was that man. Remarkable performance under the circumstances.

Toby narrowly gets my vote.

ochfacepalm:

 

[bus-conductor]

Apologies, Lloris added to poll.

 

[bus-conductor]

Please, mate, I urge you to watch the build-up to the 2nd pen again, then come on here and try to defend Tripps. In that passage of play alone typifies everything that I see from him in almost every single game he plays. I'll say it again and will only stop saying it when it doesn't happen, but when he plays the oppo target him, every team no matter the quality of it sees him as the weak link. It so, so, so easy to get behind hin he may as well not be there, he not just bad but he's a liability. Our shape, our style you cave is compromised because of what he doesn't bring to the team, not what he does bring to the team (he's a massive part of the jigsaw that isn't fitting now, not the sole reason but for me the biggest reason). Please, please watch it back. Also, watch when the ball is just put up in the air towards him an aimless punt soon becomes an opportunity as he treats the ball/change like a hot potato. I acknowledge his cross, the only one that found his man. All the others resulted in us losing possession of the ball, with him stuck up the pitch, now there's that style thing again, this is why we can't press as we used to, it's simply physically impossible to do so when we give away possession with 9 out of his 10 delivers. Davies was shit, gave him our 2nd lowest score.

Whilst I'd love to have seen Skipp come on, you will not find a bigger fan of him than me, that is still a massive call for Poch to make. I can't get shitty about it, why? Because we won and for large periods we had control of the game, only the last 30-20mins did we lose control. Could we have brought him on at this point? There's an argument for this of course but look how hard Sanchez found it when he came on, Wolves were "do or die", they had nothing to lose giving us the full court press could he have handled that? Also, with so many proper first team players out yesterday that risk is magnified, few "big" players to help him through the game.

If I'm going to have a gripe about lack of academy players playing then the one player that we should have playing for is Adam Smith instead of Tripps, now there is an FB (who can also play LB!!) that is twice the player Tripps is and is one of our own.

I wholeheartedly agree about Smith, signing both Walker and Naughton was idiotic when we had Smith here.

I think you are massively exaggerating the negatives and completely ignoring or belittling the good aspects of Trippier. Ignoring the fact that his crossing is about as good as anyone's in this league (it's not like City aren't still losing possession every time Walker hits shit crosses - which he is), it's not a coincidence that he also has a better key pass rate in the CL than Messi, Alcantara, Silva, Rakatic, Modric etc etc. The boy is one of our most incisive passers and frequently plays those great balls that release plays in that inside channel.

I do not accept he was to blame - in any discernible way for their second penalty. He chests it to Winks, Winks then gives it away and there is very little Trippier can do.

And the thing about "targeting" is also disingenuous IMO, the way Poch sets us up to play, with full backs pushed up and playing a major part in our attacking structure, if we play a back 4, we will - and have - always been susceptible to being countered "behind the FB's" and in our current guise, Trippier is by far the more pro-active of our two sides. But this was always and Achilles heel of this system, even when we had Walker and Rose and I can remember having this argument with people even when they were both playing. There is no real tangible evidence that people "target" Trippier per se, like yesterday, they put Traore on the left to go at Davies, not the other side, logic would have suggested they'd have told him to go on the left if this was the case, and it's the same most weeks, I don't see managers change their personnel or strategies specifically to target our right side and Ive posted the statistical evidence from last season which shows we conceded more dangerous passes from our left.

Lastly, for me, our biggest issues, by a long margin are our midfield. We pretty much don't have one. Dembele's been varying degrees of fucked since we've had him, Wanyama is now fucked, Dier isn't a midfielder, Winks can't defend, Sissoko can barely play football. This is the root of all our problems because this is what prevents us from creating, pressing and defending properly. The midfield is the engine of any team and ours blown a gasket and three pistons. Urgent re-build required. Then we can worry about finding the next undiscovered Philip Lahm.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

I wholeheartedly agree about Smith, signing both Walker and Naughton was idiotic when we had Smith here.

I think you are massively exaggerating the negatives and completely ignoring or belittling the good aspects of Trippier. Ignoring the fact that his crossing is about as good as anyone's in this league (it's not like City aren't still losing possession every time Walker hits shit crosses - which he is), it's not a coincidence that he also has a better key pass rate in the CL than Messi, Alcantara, Silva, Rakatic, Modric etc etc. The boy is one of our most incisive passers and frequently plays those great balls that release plays in that inside channel.

I do not accept he was to blame - in any discernible way for their second penalty. He chests it to Winks, Winks then gives it away and there is very little Trippier can do.

And the thing about "targeting" is also disingenuous IMO, the way Poch sets us up to play, with full backs pushed up and playing a major part in our attacking structure, if we play a back 4, we will - and have - always been susceptible to being countered "behind the FB's" and in our current guise, Trippier is by far the more pro-active of our two sides. But this was always and Achilles heel of this system, even when we had Walker and Rose and I can remember having this argument with people even when they were both playing. There is no real tangible evidence that people "target" Trippier per se, like yesterday, they put Traore on the left to go at Davies, not the other side, logic would have suggested they'd have told him to go on the left if this was the case, and it's the same most weeks, I don't see managers change their personnel or strategies specifically to target our right side and Ive posted the statistical evidence from last season which shows we conceded more dangerous passes from our left.

Lastly, for me, our biggest issues, by a long margin are our midfield. We pretty much don't have one. Dembele's been varying degrees of fucked since we've had him, Wanyama is now fucked, Dier isn't a midfielder, Winks can't defend, Sissoko can barely play football. This is the root of all our problems because this is what prevents us from creating, pressing and defending properly. The midfield is the engine of any team and ours blown a gasket and three pistons. Urgent re-build required. Then we can worry about finding the next undiscovered Philip Lahm.

He has one of the lowest pass completion rates in the entire team.

I provided you with evidence that our right channel is where the oppo attacks us, god only knows what this looks like now double the number of games can be added to the data. And since I provided it, it has gotten worse, not better.

For the 2nd pen, he didn't track the runner, that's his man. That's his job, he's the RB. The pass took him out of the game, it's so easy to play against him.

 

[Cravenspurs]

I can’t wait for our main men to be healthy. I am just not in love with what Lucas brings to the side despite his goals and run till you die attitude. I know that is harsh, but the complete game has been off when he has been on the pitch. Granted he hasn’t had Eriksen and Dele on the pitch with him, but I feel he is harshing Kane’s vibe.

Lamela again was a at the top of his game. Coupe of needless turnovers in midfield, but I give him the MOTM.

Fullbacks were shit despite a great assist.

Midfield struggled for portions of the game. Winks was pretty isolated. Sissoko made some decent runs forward, but meh. Son was out of position in the CM3.

Lucas as I mentioned above had a goal, but I don’t like him when compared to Son. I just think he offers less for Kane, who we need to get clicking. Son gives Kane more service as he sticks wide more than the cut in Lucas.

Kane. He just seems off. Doesn’t control the line at the moment and isn’t making runs into the channels.

The CBs were good for the most part sans the two pens. I put some of the blame on the pressure the FBs put them under, but those pens could have been avoided.

Lloris. Great saves horrible kicks.

I just want Eriksen and Dele in again and I want Lucas to take a rest. I just think the mojo needs a bit of the regular flow and the sooner they are all on form the better.

 

[bus-conductor]

He has one of the lowest pass completion rates in the entire team.

I provided you with evidence that our right channel is where the oppo attacks us, god only knows what this looks like now double the number of games can be added to the data. And since I provided it, it has gotten worse, not better.

For the 2nd pen, he didn't track the runner, that's his man. That's his job, he's the RB. The pass took him out of the game, it's so easy to play against him.

OK, lets look at some stats. Trippier has the highest tackle rate PG than anyone who's started more than one game, the highest assists in our team, the highest ave key passes PG in our team (as Ive said previously, he's got the highest average key passes of any player at any club in the CL this season), he's dispossessed less than Kane, Moura, Lamela, Alli, Winks, Sissoko, Son and Eriksen despite seeing almost double the ball per game than most of those. In terms of unsuccessful touches there are 12 players worse than him (won't list them all but it's just about everyone you can think of including Dembele). Again, despite only the two CB's seeing more of the ball than he does (and being the only ones that average more passes per game).

That is a pretty impressive bunch of stats for the "weak link" in this team, no?

As far as the evidence you provided, you didn't. You provided a sample of evidence that showed key passes made against us over a ten game period that straddled the end of last and beginning of this season, which featured games in which both KWP and Aurier also played. I countered that by showing you the same version of that matrix, extended over the whole of last season, which showed a sight bias to our left side.

It's perfectly fair to point out what you think are Trippier's weaknesses, but there is a whole body of evidence that suggests at worst there is a massive positive pay off for those, like I said, there is always compromise with payers at a club like ours. I think Trippier's are a long way from being the most imbalanced compromise, as the body of our performances and results with him shows, I'm pretty sure I worked out previously that our results against top 5 teams pro rata with him are better than with Walker.

Midfield. Midfield. Midfield.

 

[Guido 🇺🇦]

OK, lets look at some stats. Trippier has the highest tackle rate PG than anyone who's started more than one game, the highest assists in our team, the highest ave key passes PG in our team (as Ive said previously, he's got the highest average key passes of any player at any club in the CL this season), he's dispossessed less than Kane, Moura, Lamela, Alli, Winks, Sissoko, Son and Eriksen despite seeing almost double the ball per game than most of those. In terms of unsuccessful touches there are 12 players worse than him (won't list them all but it's just about everyone you can think of including Dembele). Again, despite only the two CB's seeing more of the ball than he does (and being the only ones that average more passes per game).

That is a pretty impressive bunch of stats for the "weak link" in this team, no?

As far as the evidence you provided, you didn't. You provided a sample of evidence that showed key passes made against us over a ten game period that straddled the end of last and beginning of this season, which featured games in which both KWP and Aurier also played. I countered that by showing you the same version of that matrix, extended over the whole of last season, which showed a sight bias to our left side.

It's perfectly fair to point out what you think are Trippier's weaknesses, but there is a whole body of evidence that suggests at worst there is a massive positive pay off for those, like I said, there is always compromise with payers at a club like ours. I think Trippier's are a long way from being the most imbalanced compromise, as the body of our performances and results with him shows, I'm pretty sure I worked out previously that our results against top 5 teams pro rata with him are better than with Walker.

Midfield. Midfield. Midfield.

I don't give a fuck about assists stats, genuinely one of the worst stats in the game. He's in my fantasy team because all they care about is points for assists and goals. He has so many crosses per game he's going to get an assist once in a while, fantasy football doesn't care how many failed crosses it takes. With every failed cross we concede possession and he's now stuck up the pitch, HE WILL NOT RECOVER FROM THERE, HE NEVER DOES. So, we are now open, our right flank gapping like 80-year-old whores flange. It's like chucking a stick up an alley, it's so fucking easy. Our team then has to compensate to cover the munchkins arse, our CB's get pulled out wide, our midfield gets pulled out wide. Now any "normal" RB that gets caught high tends to be able to get back and help most of the time, either covering his own position or filling in the midfielder or CB that has been pulled out, he dose nither of this, his still waiving his arms about blaming one of our own players for his shit cross.

Now all that is when he's on the ball, attacking. But when he's in the defence he can't defend for shit.

All you have to do if you are the oppo is draw him onto you, get him high up the pitch, you are going to defend his cross because it's really not that hard to do, such as their low percentage, then attack the space he's left. It really is that easy.

 

[bus-conductor]

It was so predictable that we would hit problems in centre midfield this season with Wanyama and Dembele both likely to get injured at any time just crossing the road or getting out of bed. I share your lack of enthusiasm for Dier as a midfielder. Now if Poch did not think Skipp or any of the young reserves could do the DM job then presumably he told Levy that if nothing else he needed a reinforcement in that area during the summer window. In which case Levy was the one who failed to grow some bollocks.

In the meantime maybe playing Foyth in the DM role may be one temporary solution.

He already did that and we ended up with Sissoko. Now it’s Poch’s turn to show some bollocks, drop the dead donkey and play one of the kids.

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

I don't give a fuck about assists stats, genuinely one of the worst stats in the game. He's in my fantasy team because all they care about is points for assists and goals. He has so many crosses per game he's going to get an assist once in a while, fantasy football doesn't care how many failed crosses it takes. With every failed cross we concede possession and he's now stuck up the pitch, HE WILL NOT RECOVER FROM THERE, HE NEVER DOES. So, we are now open, our right flank gapping like 80-year-old whores flange. It's like chucking a stick up an alley, it's so fucking easy. Our team then has to compensate to cover the munchkins arse, our CB's get pulled out wide, our midfield gets pulled out wide. Now any "normal" RB that gets caught high tends to be able to get back and help most of the time, either covering his own position or filling in the midfielder or CB that has been pulled out, he dose nither of this, his still waiving his arms about blaming one of our own players for his shit cross.

Now all that is when he's on the ball, attacking. But when he's in the defence he can't defend for shit.

All you have to do if you are the oppo is draw him onto you, get him high up the pitch, you are going to defend his cross because it's really not that hard to do, such as their low percentage, then attack the space he's left. It really is that easy.

Shut up and reply to my PM, you cock.

 

[RESPECT THE COCK]

I am just not in love with what Lucas brings to the side despite his goals and run till you die attitude. I know that is harsh, but the complete game has been off when he has been on the pitch.

I think Lucas has a tendency to become a space cadet when we don't have the ball. I think he could and should
work a lot harder.

 

[hiatus]

Team - 6
Sissoko - 11

 

[HampshireSpur]

Lloris - made some really good saves. 8

Trippier - good going forward for the first 30 mins, horror show for first pen especially but sloppy defending throughout. Did set up a goal and was involved in another. 5
Toby - (probably) the pick of the defenders. Still not on top form IMHO. 6
Foyth - played well for much of the game but contributed to sloppy pens. Tough start for him. 5
Davies - regressed recently. Needs to do more offensively and defensively. Not on 2016-17 levels. 4

Sissoko - playing much better now, dynamic running. Final product still uncertain. 6.5
Winks - tidy in possession. Some good forward passing, faded a bit later. 6.5
Lucas - took his header well. 6.5
Lamela - tireless. Love what's happened to him this season. Joint MOTM along with Lloris. 8
Dembele - off early so difficult to judge, really. Can't give more than about half marks. 5

Kane - actually pretty quiet but he's always there when you need him. 7

Son - quite quiet. 5.5
Eriksen - good to see him back but quiet (understandably). 5
Sanchez - came on at the worst possible time for a CB really. 5.5

Just to add about the game itself - I quite enjoyed it, not good for the heart rate (!) but two teams going at it, playing football on the front foot. Plenty of good teams will drop points at Molinuex this season - the crowd are passionate and got behind them, which I really liked.

Also kind of cheered by the fact that we are winning games without really playing well. I won't make full judgment on our season until we have more players back - so many first teamers are out at the moment, so it's hard to say exactly how good or bad our season will be. Obviously can make a judgment on individual and team performances.

 

[stevee]

Our midfield was poor, as everyone has said, they got pulled all over the pitch in the second half.
And THAT is why Dier plays when he's fit. He's never gonna be the most technically gifted,easy on the eye player, but he has the discipline to hold his position where ever the ball or other players are.
He is also a leader. Someone on here (apologies can't remember who) said we were crying out for a leader on the pitch, and who ever it was is right. Dier would and is the one that bollocks the others and organises those around him.

Spoiler

OK I might be over the top a bit, but you get my point

Also once they went 3-0 down they had nothing to lose and pushed their FBs right up, in effect creating a 2v1 situation against our FBs, and that is when Poch should have changed to a 4-3-3

Trippier was shocking again, penalties aside,he again he let a long ball go over his head and got done for pace.

Foyth was still my MOTM up till the second penaty, which I thought was slightly harsh, but he's young and will learn.

Lamela brilliant again

 

[dannythomas]

He already did that and we ended up with Sissoko. Now it’s Poch’s turn to show some bollocks, drop the dead donkey and play one of the kids.

But by your own admission Sissoko is not a central midfielder. So how did that signing , which of course Pre dated the chronic injury problems of Wanyama and Dembele, justify not buying a central midfielder in the summer ? I don’t see the logic, unless of course you are saying that because Sissoko was a bad signing that Poch shouldn’t be trusted to sign anyone else.