Summer 2018 transfer window

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Sort by date Sort by reaction score
bus-conductor said:
When AVB did this - after we sold first Modric, then VDV, Bale, lost Gallas and Adebayor (mentally), and had to work with players like Clint Dempsey and 7 new players, didn't everyone call him "boring"?




I don't really understand the bit in bold.

Poch's early strategy of high press was the best way to break down deep playing defences as you catch them before they are set, what we've played the last 12 months, reactively winning the ball back in deeper areas because players like Alli can't press very well, and Dier can't press high because his recovery is so slow, just allows teams to sit deep and force us to play the more methodical "AVB last season" stuff we played much of last year.

I don't think this is really how Poch wants to play, or why did he buy Wanyama, who's much more proactive at pressing and hunting the ball quickly - and with whom we had our best season under Poch. I think he's lost his way a little, maybe hampered by the loss of Wanyama, but he really needs to get back to the more pro-active and less risk averse approach, and Dier and the "reactive" midfield is a big obstacle to that.



You could hardly call Sanchez at 40m (one of the most expensive CB's in the world - aged 21) a "second tier signing. Alderweireld wasn't second tier, just great value. Same Trippier, Alli, Wanyama. And three years ago the 22m we paid for Son wasn't bargain basement for a player like him out of the Bundesliga, the same 30m for Sissoko two summers ago.

I think Pochettino is a great coach, the best in my time - I'm 53 - but I don't think his own contribution to recruitment has always been symbiotic with his supposed philosophy and I don't always think his selections are either. He's become much more risk averse in application than people like Klopp and Guardiola, who rely much more on aggressive, higher risk or intensity strategies, and it's not just about working with better players, our squad was at least on par with Liverpool's until this summer - they still managed three cup finals (including two European) and two CL qualifying seasons ahead of richer clubs than them.
Click to expand...

First thing highlighted - AVB was called boring yes but I believe it was more because he strung himself up with the whole 'give the ball to Gareth' tactics he implemented instead of find ways of safeguarding his approach by liberating others. I desperately wanted Villas-Boas to work but looking at how his career has gone after he left the club I think it reaffirms the clubs decision to let him go was the right one to do.

Secondly, I get what you're saying but back when Pochettino started with us teams didn't really pay us any respect. There was fan more space behind opposition lines when we won the ball back, now more & more teams surrender possession against us by trying to compensate with a counter attacking type football. They seem to want to play out less and are happy to keep their defensive lines deep when doing so, which I think has led to more possession, less pressing opportunities and more having to play through the teams we play against in hope we can break them down. Football as a game is fluid so things change based on how the game pans out, who we are playing against etc but it really didn't surprise me to see Pochettino sign a rapid central defender last year in Sanchez to try and fix the counter attacking problem when we lose the ball in possession.

Thirdly I do think Sanchez was a 2nd tier signing. Barcelona, Real Madrid & Bayern Munich never came in for him and we had to take a risk signing him for his potential. It was a great move, the kind I want to see Spurs make but at the time of signing him he definitely wasn't a grade A quality player. The same has to be said of Toby who was on loan at Southampton, Trippier played for Burnley so definitely wasn't a Grade A quality player back then & Sonny was one of the few players who had been playing well in the Bundesliga that Munich chose not to pursue. All of these players have become stars whilst at Tottenham and this is the model we have been relatively successful with over the past few years.

The only players I regard as Grade A signings at Spurs over the last 25 years are Klinsmann & Van Der Vaart. I was hoping Lucas would be the next but the jury is still well and truly out. The other signings we made were not, in my opinion, grade A signings when they came through our doors. Just my opinion though Conductor
 
bus-conductor said:
Both.
Click to expand...

Villas-Boas is also a 40 year old manager who's most recent job was in Shanghai. You can't really compare him and his decline going from Chelsea, Tottenham, St Petersburg & the onto Shanghai with Pochettino like you were earlier regarding the adaptability of his tactics.

If he had redeemed himself after his stint at our club I may think differently but he's slowly gone from club to club without stepping up a level so his tactics and adaptability in their limitations as far as the club saw it, do seem to have hit the mark
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Villas-Boas is also a 40 year old manager who's most recent job was in Shanghai. You can't really compare him and his decline going from Chelsea, Tottenham, St Petersburg & the onto Shanghai with Pochettino like you were earlier regarding the adaptability of his tactics.

If he had redeemed himself after his stint at our club I may think differently but he's slowly gone from club to club without stepping up a level so his tactics and adaptability in their limitations as far as the club saw it, do seem to have hit the mark
Click to expand...


Imagine we sold Eriksen two summers ago, and then Kane and Alli last summer. And instead of replacing TA with Sanchez we replace him with Fazio. You think Pochettino's career trajectory still goes upwards?

That's effectively what happened to AVB, who has still won a shitload more than Pochettino has. League titles with Porto and St Petersburg, before and after us, the domestic cup with both clubs, the Europa with Porto.

Not everything Poch has touched has turned to gold, at Espanyol he left there with the club in the mire. I think what AVB achieved with one quality player and then none (Eriksen in his first season was yet to settle and find his feet) was pretty impressive IMO. Where he was saddled with a shit squad, cunts like Freund and Sherwood working against him in the background and not backed by Levy in dealing with troublesome players like Adebayor, Pochettino was given a much better squad, and complete backing to get rid of dressing room trouble makers, no Sherwood or Freund etc.

Ive always said AVB and Pochettino are very similar coaches, one was given a very duff hand, the other benefitted from those lessons greatly, and was given a much better environment to succeed. When AVB had similar circumstances at Porto he absolutely smashed it, winning the title with records and winning the Europa League - something we've never managed to do.

I do think Pochettino is the better overall package as a coach of the two, but I don't think there's as much in it as some do, a lot of it comes down to his personable character more than his tactical approach, and I've never thought their philosophies or approaches are tactically vastly different.
 
Thin Lilywhite Duke said:
Fool. Crystal Palace will be his Hotel California.
Click to expand...
I think he knows and accepts what he is more than a lot of people who keep touting him. His failure at United has clearly shown him that hes just not cut for that level....why not just rake in the wedge at a club that's happy to survive season to season?

He doesn't want it, and I think that's why Poch's opinion has been limited to saying he was a good player years ago. The one thing he doesn't abide is a drifter unwilling to work his nuts off.
 
bus-conductor said:
Imagine we sold Eriksen two summers ago, and then Kane and Alli last summer. And instead of replacing TA with Sanchez we replace him with Fazio. You think Pochettino's career trajectory still goes upwards?

That's effectively what happened to AVB, who has still won a shitload more than Pochettino has. League titles with Porto and St Petersburg, before and after us, the domestic cup with both clubs, the Europa with Porto.

Not everything Poch has touched has turned to gold, at Espanyol he left there with the club in the mire. I think what AVB achieved with one quality player and then none (Eriksen in his first season was yet to settle and find his feet) was pretty impressive IMO. Where he was saddled with a shit squad, cunts like Freund and Sherwood working against him in the background and not backed by Levy in dealing with troublesome players like Adebayor, Pochettino was given a much better squad, and complete backing to get rid of dressing room trouble makers, no Sherwood or Freund etc.

Ive always said AVB and Pochettino are very similar coaches, one was given a very duff hand, the other benefitted from those lessons greatly, and was given a much better environment to succeed. When AVB had similar circumstances at Porto he absolutely smashed it, winning the title with records and winning the Europa League - something we've never managed to do.

I do think Pochettino is the better overall package as a coach of the two, but I don't think there's as much in it as some do, a lot of it comes down to his personable character more than his tactical approach, and I've never thought their philosophies or approaches are tactically vastly different.
Click to expand...
I've always said the difference in them was Poch's ability to connect to his squad and get the key members of the dressing room to buy in and back him. AVB has struggled wherever hes been with strong personalities in the squad. Poch benefited from many of those that doomed AVB being cut adrift and those that remained coming to terms that after the Harry-AVB-Sherwood transition shit show that it was last chance saloon and Poch was going to be their manager like it or not.
 
Maybe he is not a real THFC fan but in an open and perverse communication world if you are there you are also fair game in my opinion.

Sissoko is npt our biggest problem however and does not pick himself.
 
Park Lane Mark Twain said:
Shamrock Rovers' teenage keeper Gavin Bazunu to complete Leaving Cert ahead of €400k move - Independent.ie

I tell you what, if I was a foreign club I'd be licking my lips about the money in the Premier League and the HG rule. If I was Dortmund, Lyon etc I'd constantly be sniffing out the English teams for talent not getting a look in, nurture them for a couple of years and watch teams bend over backwards to pay top whack for a player to help them with their HG quotas a couple of years after signing them. I think that's why we are starting to see a few English boys going over to the Bundesliga etc, these businessman aren't mugs.

If Griffiths or Sancho make it etc how much are they going to be able to charge Premier League clubs? A great low risk high reward model to get talent and turn it into serious money. This Bazunu will probably go to City but let's be honest, he won't be cracking the first team and City won't sell to another top 4 club so the lower level Prem teams or European clubs must be licking their lips whenever they catch an academy or u18 game
Click to expand...

Many of the players going abroad will not qualify as HG because they are going abroad so young - the HG rule is that players need to have been at an FA affiliated club for 3 years before the age of 21 (and FA have floated the idea of reducing this to 18) and its not legal for the kids to move to a foreign country to sign a contract before the age of 16.

However just getting the kids for peanuts (maybe a couple of hundred thousand pounds or less) and being able to sell a successful player for maybe £40m, and at least break even on an unsuccessful player means it's an almost guaranteed win win.

And that's why its taking place against a background when few PL clubs (including Spurs) give anything like enough PL minutes to kids between the ages of say 18 to 21 whereas overseas clubs will - Jandon Sancho of course being a great example in that he's getting playing time at Dortmund whereas he was yet to make his debut at ManCity.

So expect a PL club to bid for Jadon Sancho in a few years time at say £50m.
 
Guido said:
Click to expand...


Think it means nobody is prepared to risk a decent bid for N'Koudou.

I thought Poch might need to keep Onomah as a CM (his best position in the Academy, even though Poch has only played him on the wing) given Dembele's injury record and declining ability to play multiple successive games meaning we will be reliant on Winks keeping fit to have a creative CM......unless Poch gives a lot more minutes to the likes of Amos, Oakley-Boothe and Skipp than most fans expect......or the minutes to Sissoko that fans will probably fear !
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom