Spurs Youth 2018/19

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bus-conductor said:
The Burnett scenario is very reminiscent of the conversations we used to have when Ehiogu was u23 coach isn’t it.

Hard to gauge whether he’s a victim of circumstance or making poor decisions.

I seem to remember us all scratching our heads at things like Amos being playing at LB and some really uninspiring selections.
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Yes we certainly had concerns with Ehiogu's team selection, mainly about Anton Walkes being played as something like a no 10/AM whereas he was better as a RB (where he is now played by Portsmouth ) or maybe a DM.

Anos was a victim of there not being a LB in the side, and whilst its not bad for Amos to have been played as a LB for a short time, the fact it went on for at least a season was clearly always going to affect his development - aged 16 he was a decent AM and dropped back to being a CM/DM (which is where he is now played).

But Burnett is worse in sending out teams with almost no chance of winning - and whilst winning is not a prerequisite at this age, it can't be good to lose every week because of the team selection - and if you are an attacking player I think you would lose confidence in him as a coach. Just my opinion of course
 
Fifa to introduce rules to stop clubs like Chelsea loaning 40 players

Looking possible that FIFA might deliver on its aim to limit the number of players a club might loan out - the limit being floated is 6 over age 21 players.

Main losers would be clubs like Chelsea who currently have something like 30 players over the age of 21 being loaned out. Possible reform to be phased in over 2 years (unfortunately, otherwise Chelsea would have to have a 'fire sale' of their loanees !)

Decision date possible end of October
 
bus-conductor said:
The Burnett scenario is very reminiscent of the conversations we used to have when Ehiogu was u23 coach isn’t it.

Hard to gauge whether he’s a victim of circumstance or making poor decisions.

I seem to remember us all scratching our heads at things like Amos being playing at LB and some really uninspiring selections.
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Playing players out of their known position is part of the philosophy in place at the academy, John McDermott advocates this.
 
Guido said:
Playing players out of their known position is part of the philosophy in place at the academy, John McDermott advocates this.
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Yeah, as Spursidol Spursidol and WindyCOYS WindyCOYS will testify, we’ve had long conversations about this previously.

I always said we should perhaps be a bit more circumspect with our criticism of Ehiogu (when he was getting criticised for similar things that Burnett is currently) because, through circumstances beyond his control, he had a very mish mash group to work with and I’m sure decisions (such as playing certain players, playing players out of position, and playing a certain way)were being taken collectively with McDermott and personal player development was always put above results at youth level.

It may be that Burnett isn’t a great coach, I honestly don’t know, but coaching the u23’s is the hardest coaching job I think, because you are rarely coaching a unified group that have evolved together, the very best older u23’s have usually been moved to the first team group, loaned etc, so what you are left with is the ones deemed not so great, or several who play similar positions, and a collection of different younger ages that haven’t alwsys played together etc. but are being fast tracked.
 
Guido said:
Playing players out of their known position is part of the philosophy in place at the academy, John McDermott advocates this.
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It is and its a good plan for maybe up to half a season. Beyond that if the player is taking to the new role its a good thing for him to have learnt it and that may be right if that's going to be his main position going forward or a common rotational role (think Vertonghen as CB and LB and in his youger days at Ajax as a DM) .

But if you were an 8/10 CM playing LB where you are a 6/10 after half a season, then you need to ask yourself whether its good for the player's development to persist at that LB role or whether its being done as you have several who can play CM but only one who can play (albeit not well) as LB . With the latter its not good for the individual's player development - and time for the coach to find another LB for the team whether he's rotating lots of players into the role or promoting a younger LB into the team.
 
Totti said:
Was harsh too.

Fouled in the box, didn't even appeal and ref gave him a second yellow for simulation. Poor refereeing all round.
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Yea- it's too bad. I hope Marcus can go on a little run and score a couple goals or assists. Would be nice for him to get some positive shine- seems like there is hardly any "good" news or happenings surrounding him. Can't be good for his confidence to have to always be rolling the ball uphill like that...
 
Spursidol said:
It is and its a good plan for maybe up to half a season. Beyond that if the player is taking to the new role its a good thing for him to have learnt it and that may be right if that's going to be his main position going forward or a common rotational role (think Vertonghen as CB and LB and in his youger days at Ajax as a DM) .

But if you were an 8/10 CM playing LB where you are a 6/10 after half a season, then you need to ask yourself whether its good for the player's development to persist at that LB role or whether its being done as you have several who can play CM but only one who can play (albeit not well) as LB . With the latter its not good for the individual's player development - and time for the coach to find another LB for the team whether he's rotating lots of players into the role or promoting a younger LB into the team.
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A player, especially a young one, who can't adapt and play in more that one position, isn't actually a good player at all.

No one is "born" a striker or an LB. Almost all players at academy's these days have been at professional academies their entire 'careers'. They are no longer plucked from their school sides or their Saturday or Sunday teams, most have been under the control of an academy from a very, very young age. It is the coaches at the academies that are no doubt making decisions where a player plays, rather than a kid saying he's a centre-forward because this is where he plays in the playground. They are being moulded at the academies from the age of 8.
 
Guido said:
A player, especially a young one, who can't adapt and play in more that one position, isn't actually a good player at all.

No one is "born" a striker or an LB. Almost all players at academy's these days have been at professional academies their entire 'careers'. They are no longer plucked from their school sides or their Saturday or Sunday teams, most have been under the control of an academy from a very, very young age. It is the coaches at the academies that are no doubt making decisions where a player plays, rather than a kid saying he's a centre-forward because this is where he plays in the playground. They are being moulded at the academies from the age of 8.
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'A player, especially a young one, who can't adapt and play in more that one position, isn't actually a good player at all.'

Absolutely agree.

But our Moussa Dembele stared professional life as a striker but was moved back to CM in his early 20's very simply because he wasn't a very good striker (a low scoring record is a good clue) whereas moved back he was a far better CM.

So when Harry is out Moussa is an alternative - but I'd guess Poch hasn't tried him there as there are far better alternatives as forwards than Moussa.

Likewise Luke Amos started aged 16 as being an AM but was moved back and is a decent DM/CM, but moved to LB he's no doubt developed his general game but after 6 months playing there, its apparent that's not his best position. If he had then played as a CM/DM for the next year his abilities in that role is likely to have improved him - but instead he was played as a LB for an extra year as there were no decent alternatives, and I doubt he improved his skills to be a CM/DM.

Danny Rose was a LW when he arrived from Leeds but in Spurs academy he played for at least a season as a CM, and it was only when out on loan at Bristol City he was played as a LB, and it was found he was decent there.

Poch has brought him on as a CM to see out a game, but never (that I can recall) started him as a CM, only as a LB. Reason is that he is not exceptional as a CM, but he was (and might be again) a very decent LB or LEB.

Harry Kane started as a goalkeeper but by his early teens was played as a striker. In an England youth match (u18's ?) he was brought off the bench at HT to replace a CM and everyone thought the coach was nuts as there were other very good cm's on the bench. The joke was on us as Kane was the best midfielder on the pitch in the 2nd half showing fantastic passing from a Carrick like position. We know he's a very good striker, but if Poch needed him to drop back to CM, I'm sure he could do a job - although he tried a few minutes of being goalkeeper in the first team....and not to be repeated I think.

So my argument is not that players can only play in one position., but that most players find that they are far better in only 1/2/3/5 positions and not so good in others. So at some stage you specialise in those roles and practice how to get better in those roles, and if it doesn't work out the coach might try you in another role later in your career (like Moussa and Vertonghen) and if it works you then need time playing in the new role to get as good as possible in that role..
 
Spursidol said:
'A player, especially a young one, who can't adapt and play in more that one position, isn't actually a good player at all.'

Absolutely agree.

But our Moussa Dembele stared professional life as a striker but was moved back to CM in his early 20's very simply because he wasn't a very good striker (a low scoring record is a good clue) whereas moved back he was a far better CM.

So when Harry is out Moussa is an alternative - but I'd guess Poch hasn't tried him there as there are far better alternatives as forwards than Moussa.

Likewise Luke Amos started aged 16 as being an AM but was moved back and is a decent DM/CM, but moved to LB he's no doubt developed his general game but after 6 months playing there, its apparent that's not his best position. If he had then played as a CM/DM for the next year his abilities in that role is likely to have improved him - but instead he was played as a LB for an extra year as there were no decent alternatives, and I doubt he improved his skills to be a CM/DM.

Danny Rose was a LW when he arrived from Leeds but in Spurs academy he played for at least a season as a CM, and it was only when out on loan at Bristol City he was played as a LB, and it was found he was decent there.

Poch has brought him on as a CM to see out a game, but never (that I can recall) started him as a CM, only as a LB. Reason is that he is not exceptional as a CM, but he was (and might be again) a very decent LB or LEB.

Harry Kane started as a goalkeeper but by his early teens was played as a striker. In an England youth match (u18's ?) he was brought off the bench at HT to replace a CM and everyone thought the coach was nuts as there were other very good cm's on the bench. The joke was on us as Kane was the best midfielder on the pitch in the 2nd half showing fantastic passing from a Carrick like position. We know he's a very good striker, but if Poch needed him to drop back to CM, I'm sure he could do a job - although he tried a few minutes of being goalkeeper in the first team....and not to be repeated I think.

So my argument is not that players can only play in one position., but that most players find that they are far better in only 1/2/3/5 positions and not so good in others. So at some stage you specialise in those roles and practice how to get better in those roles, and if it doesn't work out the coach might try you in another role later in your career (like Moussa and Vertonghen) and if it works you then need time playing in the new role to get as good as possible in that role..
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Not disagreeing with most of what you've put but you will not discover a players "best position" without trying other positions. I also don't think it's all about developing a player for a position, I'd argue that Rose wouldn't be as good as he's been at FB without playing LW. You can learn a lot about the wide players you face having been a wide player. So education, intelligence and appreciation of other roles can be learned by playing in those roles. One of my biggest learning curves was when I played a year at CM, as a CB and FB I had always faced my threats the way I was playing, I had an instinctive awareness gained where my teammates were and where the oppo was, at CM I barely knew where to stand, the play just seemed to be going on around me, I was barely on the ball. Took me 5 games at least just to be positionally in a place to effect a game. I was certainly a better player after my spell in the middle.
 
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