Safe-standing at White Hart Lane

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The government has been forced to come up with a more complete response to the petition ... they originally said -

The Government believes that all-seater stadia are currently the best means to ensure the safety and security of fans at designated football matches in England and Wales.
The Government thanks all the football supporters who made their views known through this petition.
The Government believes that all-seater stadia are currently the best means to ensure the safety and security of fans at designated football matches in England and Wales, while continuing to work closely with the Sports Grounds Safety Authority and football authorities to consider advances in technology and data that may enhance the existing policy.
A debate in Parliament on this issue has been tabled for 25 June, when the nuances and complexities of sports ground safety will be covered in more detail.


The petitions committee deemed this insufficient and demanded a fuller response, here it is -

The Government thanks all the football supporters who made their views known about this issue through correspondence or through the recent online petition. Many of those were concerned that the proposal from West Bromwich Albion FC made earlier this year to install a standing section was rejected. The law governing all licensed stadia would need to be changed for that proposal to go ahead.

The Government’s current policy is that all-seater stadia are the best means to ensure the safety and security of fans at designated football matches in England and Wales. However the time is now right for us to reexamine that policy in light of the technological changes in stadium and seating design as well as the representations from both clubs and supporters on this issue.

We continue to work closely with the Sports Grounds Safety Authority to consider advances in technology and data on the issue.

The safety of spectators at sports grounds has always been of paramount importance for the Government. The all-seater policy was introduced in the top two divisions in the early 1990s, following a recommendation in Lord Justice Taylor’s Final Report into the Hillsborough Stadium Disaster.

All-seater stadiums have been a success. Benefits include:
● improved crowd management and crowd behaviour;
● modern, comfortable, and inviting facilities for spectators;
● increased inclusivity and diversity amongst those attending matches
- Premier League research has shown that the percentage of crowds attending Premier League matches from a Black and Minority Ethnic background continues to increase season-on-season, and is now at a record 16% (2014/2015 season); more women and children attending games helps to nurture the next generation of supporters - Premier League research has shown that a record 26% of match attendees are female, and that children's season ticket sales now make up 12% of all Premier League season ticket sales (2014/2015 season);
● enhanced security and policing to keep spectators safe;
● there have been fewer reported incidents and injuries to spectators, and
● Increased spectator attendances - by 60% - contributing to the future health of the game.

Given the success of all seater stadiums, the safety reasons for introducing the policy, and the enhancements that seated spectators have enjoyed, the Government would need strong evidence and rationale to change that policy.
The Government is aware of the calls from a wide range of interest groups including some football clubs and supporters’ groups to introduce standing areas for spectators at football matches in the top two divisions of English football.
We will continue to listen to supporters’ groups and other stakeholders who would like to see the reintroduction of standing at football in the top two tiers. The introduction of rail seating at Celtic Park and more recently at Shrewsbury Town FC informs the debate about the future of spectator accommodation at football matches. It is important that we have this debate and that it is informed by the evidence.


The Government is not complacent about spectator safety, nor are we complacent about the safety policies that have served spectators well for many years. But we acknowledge that policies must remain relevant and effective. Technology and stadium design have evolved since the all-seater policy was introduced. It is important that all the evidence and viewpoints are considered extremely carefully.

The Sports Minister looks forward to discussing at length the nuances and complexities of sports ground safety in Parliament later this month.
Sorry, but are they honestly suggesting that seats are the root cause of more black and minority people attending football games

:dembele:
 
OK... there's no way around this... other than saying that in CERTAIN sections of certain grounds... FANS WILL STAND!

whether it's legal or not.... it's happening up and down the Country... it's NOTHING to do with being disrespectful to Hillsborough...

it's to do with GENERATIONS of football fans standing at football matches... ' cos when push comes to shove, watching football is an emotional, nervous, gut-wrenching experience for those who REALLY CARE about the outcome...
(And don't leave 10 minutes before the end, regardless of the score!!!)

But, like it or not... to fully appreciate how best to experience the full majesty of it... standing up and pacing from foot to foot for 90 minutes usually helps... whether you're AT the game, or watching at home on a 2 minute delayed dodgy stream from China!

Eating a 3 course buffet and washing it down with champagne and a cheese board doesn't even TOUCH on the true match day experience for most of us...

AND THAT'S why we stand!
 
Get the fuck in, you beautiful Club!
This is big news, especially today as there are rumours that the Government want to shelve the debate.
 

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Get the fuck in, you beautiful Club!
This is big news, especially today as there are rumours that the Government want to shelve the debate.
It has to be said that that "rumour" seems to originate from the Shadow Sports Minister, who'd just coincidentally got another round of publicity from it. But very glad to see this from the club - here's hoping standing is effectively tolerated in that area. It's just a shame it wasn't a bit bigger so everyone who wanted to could get a ST there :(
 
How muc will capacity increase by? It will be a shite terrace if it just means each seat is converted to one standing area
It’s a bold statement by the club and the government aren’t going to suddenly allow increased capacity terracing.

If it’s a choice between seating only and this form of safe standing, it’s a no brainer
 
How much will capacity increase by? It will be a shite terrace if it just means each seat is converted to one standing area
It won't ... unlike Dortmund we have single step terracing so you can't have two rows of people behind each seat ... the capacity will not change unless all the seats are removed and narrower rail seats added ... this is not and never has been in Spurs plans ... all the supporting infrastructure is based on 62,000 as will be the safety certificates, changing all those? that's not going to happen anytime soon ......

Here's part of the club statement:

“Importantly, it is a new design which incorporates the same appearance and comfort as all other seats within the stadium.

“In the meantime, without any change in the law, our design delivers a safer environment should there be persistent standing.”

Jon Babbs, Stadium Director, Tottenham Hotspur, said: “Our design ensures that, regardless of the law changing, only one fan per seat will be permitted within the future-proofed areas"

“This, along with the enhanced clearways and integrated bar, provides improved safety should fans stand during games.”
 
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The football safe standing debate is available Parliamentlive.tv

Pretty much every speaker supports the review on 'safe-standing' and the vast majority stated that safe standing should be allowed, the general feeling was that 'match-day permission' for 'safe-standing' at football grounds should be devolved to the local authority (as it is with Rugby, Cricket, Horse Racing etc.) so if a club does or doesn't want safe standing that's a local issue ...

Two voices of dissent came from representatives of Liverpool, both felt safe standing should not be reviewed until the H'borough cases were concluded (understandable due to vested interest but that could be many, many years) interestingly one claimed that Liverpool fans were against safe standing, and one said they were in favour ... different polls I guess ...

Another interesting speech came from the Cardiff representative who very clearly stated that Cardiff already allow standing in one stand, they actively advertise this fact to supporters ... thought that was illegal, but she said it ws down to interpretation ...

Several speakers said standing would make tickets cheaper, despite the fact that rail-seats cost more and that no increase in capacity was likely ... so math clearly not a strong point, pretty safe bet ticket prices won't change ....

Over and over speakers pointed out that every stadium already has standing and that safe standing had to be better than unsafe standing ... it's feckin' obvious ... many speakers said they want any review concluded in time for 2019/20 season ...

There's some almost funny speeches where MP's give a very 'inflated' view of their local club ...

Sadly the government response was 'we will collect more data' and that they hope to complete that by the end of the year ... only after that will they consider starting a review on safe standing ....
 
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It won't ... unlike Dortmund we have single step terracing so you can't have two rows of people behind each seat ... the capacity will not change unless all the seats are removed and narrower rail seats added ... this is not and never has been in Spurs plans ... all the supporting infrastructure is based on 62,000 as will be the safety certificates, changing all those? that's not going to happen anytime soon ......

Here's part of the club statement:

“Importantly, it is a new design which incorporates the same appearance and comfort as all other seats within the stadium.

“In the meantime, without any change in the law, our design delivers a safer environment should there be persistent standing.”

Jon Babbs, Stadium Director, Tottenham Hotspur, said: “Our design ensures that, regardless of the law changing, only one fan per seat will be permitted within the future-proofed areas"

“This, along with the enhanced clearways and integrated bar, provides improved safety should fans stand during games.”
That’s not a terrace then, essentially not different to the park lane
 
The proposal is for no increase at all, simply that you're allowed to stand in front of your seat (which will be locked upright) due to the inclusion of a safety rail
My view is that where these seats are located the stewards will take a relaxed view of standing now but elsewhere enforce seating. If safe standing brought in then seats locked and you stand even at half time and still pay the same. Therefore if you are in South stand where they are you gain nothing as long as stewards do not enforce seating now.
 

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The football safe standing debate is available Parliamentlive.tv

..

Two voices of dissent came from representatives of Liverpool, both felt safe standing should not be reviewed until the H'borough cases were concluded (understandable due to vested interest but that could be many, many years) interestingly one claimed that Liverpool fans were against safe standing, and one said they were in favour ... different polls I guess ...
Have no idea why it is 'understandable'. As for the poll, the actual supporters of Liverpool support it. The Hillsborough families group poll doesn't. Had enough of them really. Constantly interjecting with pointless contributions.
 
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