Safe-standing at White Hart Lane

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Get the fuck in, you beautiful Club!
This is big news, especially today as there are rumours that the Government want to shelve the debate.
If we all brought in our own **Allen key to matches, couldn't we just do it ourselves?


** NOTE TO SELF: need to e-mail club first, to get correct size of Allen key!
 

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Rocket

Supporter
My view is that where these seats are located the stewards will take a relaxed view of standing now but elsewhere enforce seating. If safe standing brought in then seats locked and you stand even at half time and still pay the same. Therefore if you are in South stand where they are you gain nothing as long as stewards do not enforce seating now.
Except being safe of course! :pocheyes:
 
The football safe standing debate is available Parliamentlive.tv

Pretty much every speaker supports the review on 'safe-standing' and the vast majority stated that safe standing should be allowed, the general feeling was that 'match-day permission' for 'safe-standing' at football grounds should be devolved to the local authority (as it is with Rugby, Cricket, Horse Racing etc.) so if a club does or doesn't want safe standing that's a local issue ...

Two voices of dissent came from representatives of Liverpool, both felt safe standing should not be reviewed until the H'borough cases were concluded (understandable due to vested interest but that could be many, many years) interestingly one claimed that Liverpool fans were against safe standing, and one said they were in favour ... different polls I guess ...

Another interesting speech came from the Cardiff representative who very clearly stated that Cardiff already allow standing in one stand, they actively advertise this fact to supporters ... thought that was illegal, but she said it ws down to interpretation ...

Several speakers said standing would make tickets cheaper, despite the fact that rail-seats cost more and that no increase in capacity was likely ... so math clearly not a strong point, pretty safe bet ticket prices won't change ....

Over and over speakers pointed out that every stadium already has standing and that safe standing had to be better than unsafe standing ... it's feckin' obvious ... many speakers said they want any review concluded in time for 2019/20 season ...

There's some almost funny speeches where MP's give a very 'inflated' view of their local club ...

Sadly the government response was 'we will collect more data' and that they hope to complete that by the end of the year ... only after that will they consider starting a review on safe standing ....
Full transcript is here for anyone interested

Football: Safe Standing - Hansard Online

Some good, positive points raised (along with some top "banter"). Sadly it means for nothing unless the government is prepared to change the legislation.
 

BangkokSpud

Supporter
The FA has come out in favour of clubs being allowed to have safe-standing areas in what campaigners regard as a significant move towards a change in the law on all-seater stadiums. It is preparing to tell a government review that it supports clubs being able to choose to have standing areas for fans if the inquiry finds that they can do so safely.

The move means that the sport will present a united front to the review, which is due to start next month. The Premier League and the EFL have previously said that clubs should be able to choose to implement safe standing.


Looks like this will be with us sooner than we thought ......
 
The FA has come out in favour of clubs being allowed to have safe-standing areas in what campaigners regard as a significant move towards a change in the law on all-seater stadiums. It is preparing to tell a government review that it supports clubs being able to choose to have standing areas for fans if the inquiry finds that they can do so safely.

The move means that the sport will present a united front to the review, which is due to start next month. The Premier League and the EFL have previously said that clubs should be able to choose to implement safe standing.


Looks like this will be with us sooner than we thought ......
Incredible. Didn't think I would see it for at least 10 years. Just on Tracey Crouch now to permit it.
 

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They probably can't even have it at West Ham because the angle of the seats is too shallow....and made of Mechano
:vert:
You're right. They almost certainly can't on the temporary standing. Having it all is a logistical nightmare at West Ham. Anyway, Brady has said it will never happen.
 
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I8AVB

Suspended
Whilst I would back this call for myself and any other like minded fan, be careful what you wish for. I am guessing that many of the forums younger members would not have sampled the White hart lane terraces pre early 1990s. In particular the lower shelf. One game in particular being against Norwich City circa 1983, with only about 18-19 thousand people in a stadium capable of holding nearly 50,000 it was carnage. Of course, things would be set up differently these days but even so it is not something I would like the spurs youth to have to put up with, in fact it could put future support off. As with most retrospective thinking and memories, in reality, was it really that good, probably not. If this idea did take off, you would find that most clubs would expand the terraces to squeeze more revenue, sorry I mean supporters into the ground, before you know it, sardine time again. Whilst seating has its drawbacks it also has a lot of positives. I remember the doubters around the time of the Taylor report saying that all seaters would have no atmosphere, well apart from Highbury and the Emirates, most stadia have improved on that score, especially WHL. I would prefer a mixture of both seating and standing with the collapsible seats option, that way certain games with big demand could be catered for. Also is this something that Levy would go for, with the new stadium just around the corner, it would mean changes on a large scale to an already drawn out affair. It is only my opinion, but whilst I have great memories of the WHL terraces, I've also seen some scary moments, not to mention poor viewing.
Sorry, I am shocked by what you say. You infer that the atmosphere is better now than prior to all seater stadium. Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The atmosphere at the vast majority of premiership stadiums has and is flat, and I include the new Spurs stadium. Yes, there is the occasional game when the supporters raise the volume, but this is rare. My seat is in the lower south, and we have built in safe standing. For several years prior to moving to the new stadium, and at the new stadium, I haven't stood during a match. This is the way I like it, despite being in my sixties. Wolves are now putting in safe standing in anticipation of the obvious. Regrettably there are a number of reasons why the atmosphere has died stadiums, and all seater stadiums is only one of them. If you want a proper atmosphere, try visiting any country that doesn't charge the hell out of it's supporters.
 

I8AVB

Suspended
Thelonious, with regard to the better atmosphere, I was thinking more towards the safety aspect of the event rather than the noise. But even so, back then you would be hard pushed to get 20-25 thousand people making as much noise as they do these days with the wrap round stadium that we have now. Back then the Paxton and Park lane where basically massive garden sheds with gaping holes at either end, apart from the hardcore fans/hooligans it was difficult to get anything going like it does today. Tickets were £2-4 in the shelf then and still only attracting crowds of 15 -20 thousand for the lesser games, obviously the Derby games and the Mancs attracted more people.
If anything was to happen regarding the campaign, then I would suggest just going for it, but also remembering about the people who wouldn't/couldn't benefit from it ie: kids, disabled etc.
The atmosphere at most grounds today is better than back then due to the fact that the hooligan element has been sorted out to a certain degree, it is no coincidence that attendances have increased on a pro rata basis since all seaters have been introduced.
Whilst I hate any type of violence, it is the countries who suffer with this problem that have the best atmosphere and noise level. Against Ajax is a great example. They have far noisier fans than ours, and Holland has terrible hooliganism. Germany and Poland are the same. I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest, but to suggest that the atmosphere in stadiums is better now than when we had hooligans, is simply not true.
 
Sorry, I am shocked by what you say. You infer that the atmosphere is better now than prior to all seater stadium. Sorry, you couldn't be more wrong. The atmosphere at the vast majority of premiership stadiums has and is flat, and I include the new Spurs stadium. Yes, there is the occasional game when the supporters raise the volume, but this is rare. My seat is in the lower south, and we have built in safe standing. For several years prior to moving to the new stadium, and at the new stadium, I haven't stood during a match. This is the way I like it, despite being in my sixties. Wolves are now putting in safe standing in anticipation of the obvious. Regrettably there are a number of reasons why the atmosphere has died stadiums, and all seater stadiums is only one of them. If you want a proper atmosphere, try visiting any country that doesn't charge the hell out of it's supporters.
If the atmosphere at football matches is less than it was say 20 or 30 years ago, best to look at the spectator base.

Most stadiums are full of people with an average of say 50, whereas 20 or 30 years ago the average age would be half that.

And that reflects the fact that the UK has an aging population - some 20% of people now are over the age of 65 far higher than it was 20 or 30 years ago for a wide variety of reasons from people choosing to having less babies to better livestyles and better medicine meaning people living longer. Go back 50 years and most men died within 5 years or so of retirement, so a 70 year old man was unusual....as opposed to today when 90 year olds are more common than 70 year olds used to be.

Like many things in modern life , whilst there are lots of positives (in this case longer better quality of life) there may be a few downsides (eg atmosphere in stadiums), just be careful what you wish for.

So yes, the atmosphere may be better and no doubt there are ways in which it can be improved......but don't bet on it being as good as it was in say the 60's when football stadium atmosphere was better but life outside football was worse !
 
Whilst I hate any type of violence, it is the countries who suffer with this problem that have the best atmosphere and noise level. Against Ajax is a great example. They have far noisier fans than ours, and Holland has terrible hooliganism. Germany and Poland are the same. I'm not sure what the answer is to be honest, but to suggest that the atmosphere in stadiums is better now than when we had hooligans, is simply not true.
Terrible hooliganism in Holland? What a load of crap.
 
Terrible hooliganism in Holland? What a load of crap.
I used to work in Eindhoven quite a lot.

Their stadium has a specific enclosed bridge tunnel that enters the ground above street level, leading from a railway stop used only for football fans. That’s how far they go to segregate away fans.

Inside you have thick Perspex material separating you from the home fans.

I think it’s safe to say they have had their problems.
Going on stories I heard from Dutch guys some rivalries are similar to UK hooligan problems.
 

I8AVB

Suspended
Terrible hooliganism in Holland? What a load of crap.
Your knowledge must be very limited. The only way to get into the away section at PSV is directly through the train station, I know because I have been there. Away tickets for foreign supporters have to be picked up prior to the match with additional ID. Holland has and still does have horrific hooliganism. We even had had a load of trouble at the Lane against Ajax the other night, and if you don't believe me, Youtube it
 
Your knowledge must be very limited. The only way to get into the away section at PSV is directly through the train station, I know because I have been there. Away tickets for foreign supporters have to be picked up prior to the match with additional ID. Holland has and still does have horrific hooliganism. We even had had a load of trouble at the Lane against Ajax the other night, and if you don't believe me, Youtube it
Oh good, you're back.

transsexuals should be humanly euthanized.
 

I8AVB

Suspended
If the atmosphere at football matches is less than it was say 20 or 30 years ago, best to look at the spectator base.

Most stadiums are full of people with an average of say 50, whereas 20 or 30 years ago the average age would be half that.

And that reflects the fact that the UK has an aging population - some 20% of people now are over the age of 65 far higher than it was 20 or 30 years ago for a wide variety of reasons from people choosing to having less babies to better livestyles and better medicine meaning people living longer. Go back 50 years and most men died within 5 years or so of retirement, so a 70 year old man was unusual....as opposed to today when 90 year olds are more common than 70 year olds used to be.

Like many things in modern life , whilst there are lots of positives (in this case longer better quality of life) there may be a few downsides (eg atmosphere in stadiums), just be careful what you wish for.

So yes, the atmosphere may be better and no doubt there are ways in which it can be improved......but don't bet on it being as good as it was in say the 60's when football stadium atmosphere was better but life outside football was worse !
A good post, and much of it I agree with. Yes, the spectator base has changed, and the population has aged. However, the average age of the population in Germany and Holland has increased also, whereas their atmosphere is far better. The difference is that their ticket prices are far lower, and thus younger working class people have more chance to buy tickets. Traditionally it is the younger people who tend to sing, although even at my maturing age, I still sing with the best of them.
 

I8AVB

Suspended
Oh good, you're back.
Yes, but I don't how long for. I tend to last longer on sites where posters reflect the views of attending football fans. The attending football fan tends be far more right wing and traditional in their thinking, whereas many forum members are left wing and a bit snowflakey . I am always happy to accept the opinions of such people, although I find them strange, however the left can rarely come to terms with common sense views.

Does the fact I used the word "humanely" not mean anything to you ?
 

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Yes, but I don't how long for. I tend to last longer on sites where posters reflect the attending footballer. The attending footballer tends be far more right wing and traditional in their thinking, whereas many forum members are left wing and a bit snowflakey . I am always happy to accept the opinions of such people, although I find them strange, however the left can rarely come to terms common sense views.
Common sense views being that Transexuals should be euthanised?

And what the fuck is an ''attending footballer''?
 
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