Pochettino has done a hell of a lot more for us than Rednapp ever did and was likely to do!
-
The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...
Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports
He's still the best manager I've ever seen at Spurs. Can he be questioned? Yes. Criticised? Yes.
Replaced by someone likely to do better next year? Nope, don't see it. Who would it be?
Replaced by someone likely to do better next year? Nope, don't see it. Who would it be?
I don’t think that he should be judged on this season alone but on his overall contribution.
Some of us are disappointed with our recent bad run
One point out of a possible fifteen
But we are in the CL last 8 and favourites to finish in the top four which I’m confident we will
That’ll do me!
Some of us are disappointed with our recent bad run
One point out of a possible fifteen
But we are in the CL last 8 and favourites to finish in the top four which I’m confident we will
That’ll do me!
I definitely think it's fair to question Pochettino.
I've had minor issues with him throughout, but I expect that with any manager/coach/player/chairman etc but the general overriding qualities he brings have mostly mitigated any minor issues I've had with him.
I think he's often made poor selection choices at big moments, or made poor tactical choices at big moments or both (early example was playing Townsend and Chadli in the LC final instead of Lamela and Dembele - later things like Son as a LWB in the FAC semi). He's neglected the midfield for much of his tenure IMO. His in game management is often very poor, he's often slow to react. he often sets us up badly for big games. And then there's the whole bullshit "promoter of youth" thing, which grates heavily.
But most of these have been easily superseded by the fact that he's a very good coach with a very clear ethic, invariably improves individuals he works with, and most importantly had the ability to improve us as a collective, with the ball and enormously without it.
He is, or has been, without doubt, the best pure coach in my 50 years.
Issues I've got now are no longer those minor ones though, they are more fundamental.
The minor selection issues have become major ones.
Week after week he picks this structure that just doesn't suit us, doesn't get the best out of the players we have. Makes us less than the sum of our parts, not more or even level. Insanity is repeating the same thing and hoping for a different outcome.
How any top grade manager can think Sissoko belongs in a midfield competing for titles is frankly very, very worrying. Whatever we think of Sissoko, he's does not belong at this level. You have to drop a long way down this league to find midfielders who are technically and intellectually worse, you have to drop a few pegs down to find a more disjointed and incoherent midfield than ours is now. Before the Sissoko issue, there was Dier plodding around, and Poch thinking he was good enough to play there regularly.
And it's thinking that he can play players who don't want the ball under pressure, but persisting with trying to play from the back - under pressure.
How bad do senior players need to be before the great "brave promoter of youth" actually grows some bollocks and promotes youth?
We used to try and dictate games from midfield, now we just bypass it.
Two central strikers, no wide AM/Forwards, meaning the FB's that are already getting blamed for everything, are even more exposed. Moura as one of those central strikers?
And then there's the fundamental issue of what type of team are we now? We don't press high up any more really. There's very little tenacity in our midfield. I can only remember one great 90 minutes of football all season, against Cheslea at home.
Currently, I think his selections, particularly a couple, are absolutely tragic, I think his structural set ups are fucking terrible, and we are not even an aggressive cohesive group without the ball any more.
We are a bunch of decent footballers, quite well coached generally, throwing the dice every week.
I know there have been mitigating issues. The WC killed us. People don't want to admit it's a thing and players would never say it, because it would seem "weak", but there is no way it's not affected us more than most, even the injuries are possibly a sign of this.
And we have had the ground bollocks.
But these things aren't forcing Poch to pick certain players over others. The bullshit "paid to train" mantra has been changed to "if I paid 30m for you you can play no matter how shit you train". Playing at Wembley doesn't force him to choose poor tactics. The WC should have been an opportunity to give young players more game time, not marginalise them.
Even if you disagree with my personal player selection gripes, I'm sure you'll all have your own. Tripper, Rose, Davies, Lloris....whoever.
Now, maybe we'll smash the last 7 games, clear out the dross, sign some decent players and become the good version of a Pochettino team again. I don't even care if we don't make CL, as long as I can get on board with the way we are set up and play. Our cohesion as a team. I put much more stall in performances than I do trophies. As long as we look like a cohesive unit with and without the ball, I'm pretty happy.
And these are not sudden issues because we're on a bad run. I voiced many of them last season, and at the beginning of this season (and the middle) when we were winning games but not playing well. Many of us were getting shit for saying that results won't always outrun performances.
If we get back on track then I'll give him lots of credit, as I have for the great things he's done previously and the massive overall effect for the positive he's had on this club. But right now I'm just calling what I see and feel.
I've had minor issues with him throughout, but I expect that with any manager/coach/player/chairman etc but the general overriding qualities he brings have mostly mitigated any minor issues I've had with him.
I think he's often made poor selection choices at big moments, or made poor tactical choices at big moments or both (early example was playing Townsend and Chadli in the LC final instead of Lamela and Dembele - later things like Son as a LWB in the FAC semi). He's neglected the midfield for much of his tenure IMO. His in game management is often very poor, he's often slow to react. he often sets us up badly for big games. And then there's the whole bullshit "promoter of youth" thing, which grates heavily.
But most of these have been easily superseded by the fact that he's a very good coach with a very clear ethic, invariably improves individuals he works with, and most importantly had the ability to improve us as a collective, with the ball and enormously without it.
He is, or has been, without doubt, the best pure coach in my 50 years.
Issues I've got now are no longer those minor ones though, they are more fundamental.
The minor selection issues have become major ones.
Week after week he picks this structure that just doesn't suit us, doesn't get the best out of the players we have. Makes us less than the sum of our parts, not more or even level. Insanity is repeating the same thing and hoping for a different outcome.
How any top grade manager can think Sissoko belongs in a midfield competing for titles is frankly very, very worrying. Whatever we think of Sissoko, he's does not belong at this level. You have to drop a long way down this league to find midfielders who are technically and intellectually worse, you have to drop a few pegs down to find a more disjointed and incoherent midfield than ours is now. Before the Sissoko issue, there was Dier plodding around, and Poch thinking he was good enough to play there regularly.
And it's thinking that he can play players who don't want the ball under pressure, but persisting with trying to play from the back - under pressure.
How bad do senior players need to be before the great "brave promoter of youth" actually grows some bollocks and promotes youth?
We used to try and dictate games from midfield, now we just bypass it.
Two central strikers, no wide AM/Forwards, meaning the FB's that are already getting blamed for everything, are even more exposed. Moura as one of those central strikers?
And then there's the fundamental issue of what type of team are we now? We don't press high up any more really. There's very little tenacity in our midfield. I can only remember one great 90 minutes of football all season, against Cheslea at home.
Currently, I think his selections, particularly a couple, are absolutely tragic, I think his structural set ups are fucking terrible, and we are not even an aggressive cohesive group without the ball any more.
We are a bunch of decent footballers, quite well coached generally, throwing the dice every week.
I know there have been mitigating issues. The WC killed us. People don't want to admit it's a thing and players would never say it, because it would seem "weak", but there is no way it's not affected us more than most, even the injuries are possibly a sign of this.
And we have had the ground bollocks.
But these things aren't forcing Poch to pick certain players over others. The bullshit "paid to train" mantra has been changed to "if I paid 30m for you you can play no matter how shit you train". Playing at Wembley doesn't force him to choose poor tactics. The WC should have been an opportunity to give young players more game time, not marginalise them.
Even if you disagree with my personal player selection gripes, I'm sure you'll all have your own. Tripper, Rose, Davies, Lloris....whoever.
Now, maybe we'll smash the last 7 games, clear out the dross, sign some decent players and become the good version of a Pochettino team again. I don't even care if we don't make CL, as long as I can get on board with the way we are set up and play. Our cohesion as a team. I put much more stall in performances than I do trophies. As long as we look like a cohesive unit with and without the ball, I'm pretty happy.
And these are not sudden issues because we're on a bad run. I voiced many of them last season, and at the beginning of this season (and the middle) when we were winning games but not playing well. Many of us were getting shit for saying that results won't always outrun performances.
If we get back on track then I'll give him lots of credit, as I have for the great things he's done previously and the massive overall effect for the positive he's had on this club. But right now I'm just calling what I see and feel.
Last edited:
The squad is now in need of such drastic surgery that the window of opportunity to win the league has surely passed us by. It's a tragedy.
Firstly you say “the only thing he’s achieved is more consistent CL” like that’s a minor thing. It isn’t, it’s massive, not just for us positively, but for our direct competitors who we’ve usurped, negatively, every time we’ve done it.
Secondly, I don’t think he had a much better team either. Redknapp has the same fullbacks available to him, Gallas and King, Modric, Parker, Palacios, Sandro as CM’s, VDV, Bale, Adebayor.
And more importantly, as much as I’ve got some issues recently with him, Pochettino got us, through proper coaching, consistently playing a brand of football, made us a cohesive team with and without the ball, introduced some bollocks collectively, improved players, gave us an identity.
Now, I definitely think he’s lost his way a bit lately, and I’ve been heavily critical of him, but as coaches, Pochettino absolutely pisses Redknapp.
He told you to fuck off
Pretty much everyone tells you to fuck off
My mother who didn't swear, didn't support spurs and is dead would tell you to fuck off.
So take a hint
A large amount of people would be delighted if you would just fuck off!
Bardi
I don't agree with some of the points but it is beautifully written. I still feal that his one big failure was the handling of Kyle walker who to my mind should of been club captain.
1. No he's not the only manager in the world right now, but the options are very limited. Who would we be able to bring in? At the moment the only legit option that will fit the criteria of attacking football, developing youngsters is Marco Rose from Salzburg. Good manager, young too. I can't see anyone else close to what Pochettino is bringing to the table. Not to say that bringing another manager doesn't guarantee that he will do better than Pochettino.
What we need, if we can't spend big, is to set up a very good scouting system which is lacking atm.
2. We must trust him because he's the manager and he surely knows WAY MORE than the rest of us here wanking at each other posts? He didn't win anything as a manager but that doesn't mean he can't.
Last edited:
Ultimately i dont believe Poch is beyond reproach.
Question:
Would sacking Poch for not getting top 4 be little more than a modern footballing cliche?
Sacking the guy for not having us punching above our weight for the first time in 5 years isn't something i'm particularly comfortable with.... Esp. with the trials presented to us this year in term of trfs, stadium and chronic injuries.
In managerial terms, his career curve is comparable to that of a 21/22 yr old with mega potential that has done extremely since arriving.... Do we flog Dele off the first season his numbers dip to par?
Does Poch's track record of steadily improving us afford him NO grace?
Question:
Would sacking Poch for not getting top 4 be little more than a modern footballing cliche?
Sacking the guy for not having us punching above our weight for the first time in 5 years isn't something i'm particularly comfortable with.... Esp. with the trials presented to us this year in term of trfs, stadium and chronic injuries.
In managerial terms, his career curve is comparable to that of a 21/22 yr old with mega potential that has done extremely since arriving.... Do we flog Dele off the first season his numbers dip to par?
Does Poch's track record of steadily improving us afford him NO grace?
Last edited:
So in an industry where some manage into their 70s, the first 10 years out a 30/40 year careers span is a diff stratosphere of experience compared the ratio of a senior player having clocked up 4 of 15/20?
Just cos a number of young managers have won trophies, that doesn't equate to Poch having no further scope for improvement.
Guardiola is a spoiled cunt and had thee elite upbringing/resources as a manager.
Simeoni plays horrific football.
Goons are welcome to Emrie.
Fuck off.
Did i say managers peak at 60/70?
No.
Have i been throwing words around like 'elite' and 'best of the last decade'?
No.
Will Pochetino improve?
I beleive so.
Why is it so wild to you that a man can learn new things and develope beyond his mid 40s?
'The average age a trophy winning manager wins their first major trophy' may be a starting point if it's worth continuing this, but i couldn't readily find such a stat....
According to you and what time-frame and metrics?
2 years of Wembley fuckery, mass injuries and no transfers and all you see is evidence that Poch is shit?
The guys been proactively experimenting with formations for 2 years, having already developed a counter-attacking game (a plan B) he arrived being accused of not having....
Suggestive to me that he's motivated to and able to evolve.
The football's not been as pretty this year but if you think a potential 3rd place and CL semi represents a catagoric regression then you're full of shit; all the more if you think Poch alone is the catalyst for that hypothetical regression.
No more absurd than your relentless blanket outlook of doom and predicted failure.
Meh. He's not been perfect this year nor any year before that. Find me a quote where I've even suggested as much.... Spoiler: You won't.
U know the beauty of all this tho.... If i'm wrong, i've lost nothing.... To have kept faith in a manger that didnt prove me right is not gonna embarrass me.... That's the domain of sour cunts like you that can't enjoy supporting their team.
I actually agree with the sentiment that to RE-build a squad a 2nd time can make or break a manager and if you weren't so arrogant and dismissive you might have noticed I hold a question mark over Pochs current influence within out trf business. This said, Let's see how much he gets to spend on the job.... Unlike yourself I'm not inclinded to write the bloke off before the fact and luckily enough for me, as a supporter, i'm not called upon to do so.
Last edited:
So by this token estimation Poch will start to decline in around 7 years time.?
I smell bullshit, but regardless u still fall short of provid anything concrete as to why he can't improve in the meantime.
Hmmmmmmm..... Reality bores you. Tough shit.....
Ironic; cos your perceived reality is prrrrrrettty fucking tedious too.
Those red cards you are so well versed in collecting arent a conspiracy; you're company is just commonly found to be undesired.......
Like fuck it did, you delusional wanker! 3rd & CL qtrs? Buuuuuullshit. All you see is darkness....
Only in your fucked up little mind.
.....How's your pro-active anti-Poch action panning out?
....Flying banners all booked for the CL Qtrs?
....You'll be outside protesting? ....Showing your strength of prinicipal i assume?
Like fuck you will, you shit spewing, hot-air blowing pussy.
The fact u believe you're on some crusade of truth is the most fucked up part of all this... You actually think it's edgy and righteous to sit and moan; endlessly predicting failure... Any soft cunt can be a negative miserable melt.[/quote]
Last edited: