Please explain the homegrown rules

[toothy]

I imagine we now have too many players to register under uefa rules - see other posts summarising squad above your post

Yeah saw that. But we could've easily taken Clarke out and put Foyth in the squad. Currently we have 16 foreign players so Foyth would've completed our foreign players slot. Clarke isn't likely to get much gametime with us. Better to send him out on loan imo.

 

[sudoku]

With Bale and Reguilon added the EPL squad is a full 25.
Foyth was not included in the EL squad. Bale and Reguilon added means we have a total of 27.
Ironically we need to lose 2 HG players if we keep all 17 non-HG.

	NON-HG (16) EPL	NON-HG (17) EL
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	FOYTH
8	REGUILON	REGUILON	7
9	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	8
10	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	9
11	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	10
12	LAMELA	LAMELA	11
13	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	12
14	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	13
15	MOURA	MOURA	14
16	SON	SON	15
		DAVIES	16
		GEDSON	17
	HG (9)	ASSOCIATION (5)
1	HART	HART	1
2	DOHERTY	DOHERTY	2
3	ALLI	ALLI	3
4	DAVIES	SESSEGNON	4
		CLARKE	5
		CLUB TRAINED (5)
5	WHITEMAN	WHITEMAN	1
6	CCV	CCV	2
7	WINKS	WINKS	3
8	KANE	KANE	4
9	BALE	BALE	5
	SQUAD TOTAL: 25	SQUAD TOTAL: 27

 

[AussieYiddo]

With Bale and Reguilon added the EPL squad is a full 25.
Foyth was not included in the EL squad. Bale and Reguilon added means we have a total of 27.
Ironically we need to lose 2 HG players if we keep all 17 non-HG.

	NON-HG (16) EPL	NON-HG (17) EL
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	FOYTH
8	REGUILON	REGUILON	7
9	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	8
10	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	9
11	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	10
12	LAMELA	LAMELA	11
13	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	12
14	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	13
15	MOURA	MOURA	14
16	SON	SON	15
		DAVIES	16
		GEDSON	17
	HG (9)	ASSOCIATION (5)
1	HART	HART	1
2	DOHERTY	DOHERTY	2
3	ALLI	ALLI	3
4	DAVIES	SESSEGNON	4
		CLARKE	5
		CLUB TRAINED (5)
5	WHITEMAN	WHITEMAN	1
6	CCV	CCV	2
7	WINKS	WINKS	3
8	KANE	KANE	4
9	BALE	BALE	5
	SQUAD TOTAL: 25	SQUAD TOTAL: 27

That's not correct, it's a minimum of 8 HG you could have 25 HG if you want. I would say that CCV/Whiteman and Clarke will be on the chopping block for UEL

 

[sudoku]

That's not correct, it's a minimum of 8 HG you could have 25 HG if you want. I would say that CCV/Whiteman and Clarke will be on the chopping block for UEL

I said if we keep all 17 non-HG.

 

[Blanchflower]

EL rules: Dier was trained in PortugaL: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Dier was trained in Portugal: Non-HG.
EL rules: Davies was trained in Wales: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Davies: HG.
EL rules: Gedson: Non-HG.
EPL rules: Gedson: U21.
EL rules: Clarke has not been with us 2 years: Association.
EPL rules: Clarke: U21.

	EPL	EL
	NON-HG (16)	NON-HG (18)
1	LLORIS	LLORIS	1
2	GAZZANIGA	GAZZANIGA	2
3	AURIER	AURIER	3
4	ALDERWEIRELD	ALDERWEIRELD	4
5	SANCHEZ	SANCHEZ	5
6	DIER	DIER	6
7	REGUILON	REGUILON	7
8	HOJBJERG	HOJBJERG	8
9	SISSOKO	SISSOKO	9
10	NDOMBELE	NDOMBELE	10
11	LAMELA	LAMELA	11
12	LO CELSO	LO CELSO	12
13	BERGWIJN	BERGWIJN	13
14	MOURA	MOURA	14
15	SON	SON	15
16	VINICIUS	VINICIUS	16
		DAVIES	17
		GEDSON	18
	HG (9)	ASSOCIATION (4)
1	HART	HART	1
2	DOHERTY	DOHERTY	2
3	ALLI	ALLI	3
4	DAVIES	CLARKE	4
		CLUB TRAINED (5)
5	WHITEMAN	WHITEMAN	1
6	CCV	CCV	2
7	WINKS	WINKS	3
8	KANE	KANE	4
9	BALE	BALE	5
	SQUAD TOTAL: 25	SQUAD TOTAL: 27
	EPL	EL
	SQUAD OF 25	SQUAD OF 25
	MAX 17 NON-HG	MAX 17 NON-HG
	IF 17 NON-HG	IF 17 NON-HG
	MAX 8 HG	MAX 8 HG
		(MAX 4 ASSOCIATION)
	U21 on 1st Jan in	year season starts
	(UNDER 21)	LIST B (UNDER 21)
	No restrictions	With Spurs 2 years

Window closed. Provisional squads above.
EPL squad is kosher at 25.
EL squad we need to lose one non-HG.
It's between Gedson and Gazza IMO.
If he keeps Gazza then Whiteman will be dropped and that is 25 total.
If he keeps Gedson then Whiteman will stay and one other association or club trained player must be dropped.
Highly likely to be CCV so maybe slight chance Jose keeps Clarke and plays him in any dead rubber games?

 

[sudoku]

And if Rodon joins - overseas trained for both UEFA and EPL

Still a space for Rodon in the EPL side, but not in UEFA squad until January (and then only if we offload an overseas trained player) ?

Gazza highly likely to go in the Jan window to make space for Rodon.
But then we have to make a HG space for Whiteman!

 

[stevee]

Gazza highly likely to go in the Jan window to make space fro Rodon.
But then we have to make a HG space for Whiteman!

Why would we have to lose a HG for Whiteman ?

Surely you can have as many HG as you like ?

I thought you could have as many HG as you like as the rules say minimum allowed ?

 

[Sir Archibald Crooks]

I can only guess that there is something in the contract that prevents us from cancelling Gedson's loan.
There is no other reason, that I can think of, that we have kept him.

I wonder if there is a logic in leaving Lloris and say Toby/Son out of the group games stage. We should walk that group with our reserves. Leave 2 players purely for league games.

 

[sudoku]

Thanks. Very useful.

I'm optimistic and assume we're going to be strong in the PL as well as all the cups. If we do make a push in the PL, then I can see situations where Mourinho will want to keep key players fresh by resting them in the easier EL group games.

If this logic is correct, then I suspect Mourinho will be very tempted to include Gedson in the EL squad as extra midfield legs, which would necessitate Gazza dropping out for either Whiteman or Austin.

My sense is that if either Aurier or Sissoko had left in this window, Mourinho would have promoted Gedson to their squad place. Obviously both stayed. But Gedson's best chance of getting game time is surely in the EL. So if we don't select him in the squad, I see almost no point in keeping him around.

Agree about Gedson.
Once Bale is fit he's behind Lucas, Lamela, Dele and Bergwijn.

 

[spursmalc]

I thought there was a restriction on number on loan. We now have 3 but I thought we could only have 2?

 

[sudoku]

I thought the same, but was informed on here that it's only 2 English loans and 4 from abroad.

I have googled it and can find nothing about overseas loans and that there is a maximum of 2 loans allowed.
It seems to me that Gedson will be dropped from both EPL and EL squads as the rules also say no more than one loan from the same club.
Unless there is someone who can find a link that says overseas loans are treated differently to EPL loans?

How many loans are allowed for Premier League clubs?

Find out how Premier League clubs are limited in the number of players they can bring in on loan from English clubs

www.premierleague.com

- Premier League clubs may not register more than two players on loan at any one time.
- The maximum number of loans registrable in the same season is four, and, under no circumstances, shall more than one be from the same club at any one time.
- Premier League clubs cannot loan to another Premier League club a player they have acquired in the same transfer window.
- A Premier League club may loan not more than one of its goalkeepers to another Premier League club.

 

[Igula]

I don't pay attention but are there is this "is he or isn't" HG stuff there for all teams or do we just have a unusually high number of them this year?

Davies, Rodon, Doherty, Dier all seem like there is a common sense argument for them to be HG but none are in Europa.

 

[Spursidol]

I don't pay attention but are there is this "is he or isn't" HG stuff there for all teams or do we just have a unusually high number of them this year?

Davies, Rodon, Doherty, Dier all seem like there is a common sense argument for them to be HG but none are in Europa.

We have a bigger squad than for last few years - essential given the more frequent matches than previous seasons (no free mid weeks this season, usually we have some) - which emphasises the HG/non HG situation as we are pretty well maxed out in squad size whereas in previous years we usually had some space to bring player(s) in .

HG and Non HG are defined by PL and UEFA rules rather than common sense !

sudoku has helpfully listed the differences between PL and EL rules - these are the 2 squads which show we need to sell/loan overseas trained players to bring anyone in (and still have Rodon as ineligible in EL)

EL
Club Trained - 4 ( Kane, Bale, Winks, Whiteman, )
Other Assoc Trained 3 (Hart, Dele, Clarke)
Overseas Trained 17 (Lloris, Aurier, Doherty, Sanchez, Alderweireld, Dier, Reguilon, Davies, Hojbjerg, Sissoko, Lo Celso, Lucas, Ndombele, Son, Bergwijn, Vinicius, Lamela)
Sub-Total 24 Players
List B (U 21's) 2 (Tanganga, Austin etc)

But Rodon not eligible for EL.

For PL (with different rules to categorise players) :
Other Association Trained
- 17 players above less Davies less Doherty plus Gazzaniga = 16
Home Grown
- As Club and Other Assn Trained - 7 above plus Davies, Rodon & Doherty less Clarke = 9
Sub - Total 25 Players
Under 21's
- As above plus Clarke

 

[Igula]

We have a bigger squad than for last few years - essential given the more frequent matches than previous seasons (no free mid weeks this season, usually we have some) - which emphasises the HG/non HG situation as we are pretty well maxed out in squad size whereas in previous years we usually had some space to bring player(s) in .

HG and Non HG are defined by PL and UEFA rules rather than common sense !

sudoku has helpfully listed the differences between PL and EL rules - these are the 2 squads which show we need to sell/loan overseas trained players to bring anyone in (and still have Rodon as ineligible in EL)

I saw that he did that and appreciate it.

My question was just out of interest in other teams have so many guys with odd HG status as us. For example,

Rodon and Davies HG for PL not for EL. even more frustrating (in my view) is that they played for Swansea in their youth career, which although located in Wales plays in the English system and for some dumb reason UEFA says they aren't home grown. They could have played every game of their careers in the PL against other players that are HG for playing in that league but they are not. To me it is common sense that they should be HG but I understand that they are not, That is what I meant by common sense versus rules. There is zero reason they shouldn't be considered home grown since they spent their careers playing in the same system that Tottenham is in.

Likewise, Doherty is apparently no eligible because he was on a 6 month loan. To me that is ridiculous, but again I understand it is the rules.

Dier a little less straight forward although I think it is funny that a guy born in England, plays for English with two English parents, playing in the PL is not considered HG. I understand that he spent his youth career in Portugal but still seems a little silly to me.

I was just interested if other teams have these kind of odd situations. Wasn't meant to be anything more than a curiosity since sudoku already had done a great job of laying out the actual parameters of who was HG and not.