Moussa Sissoko

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ArcspacE said:
Not sure why you even bother engaging Guido 🇺🇦 Guido 🇺🇦 on the subject - his constant slating of Trippier makes any hollier than thou comment on Sissoko laughable and enormously hypocritical. Sissoko is playing very well atm and rightly getting plaudits - but to deny he was atrocious last season and looked like League 1 player is embarrassing revisionism indeed.

He wasn't scape-goated - he was just utterly shit. Thankfully - he's turned things around and fans have responded accordingly - what's the big deal anyway? Go look at Kane's comments from the first few pages on his thread. Or Poche's. Wrong on the fucken internet shocker.
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Oh, look wankspace tags Guido in a post, as his obsession continues unabated.

When Tripps has a good game I say that he has a good game (it's all there in black and white). When he has a shit game I comment that he's had a shit game too. The fact he has had more shit games than good games would mean I post more about how shit he is than how good he is. It's not fucking hard to work that one out, but then it is you we are talking about, the forum dunce, although I do not see the need to make allowance for this.

And yet again another poster can't get their head around the fact that I think Sissoko is a poor player with limited ability but confuses the fact that because I defend they way people slag him off (the level of abuse has NEVER warranted or matched his performance(s) played) is beyond bizarre in the fucking extreme.

I'll spell it out for you: I think Sissoko is not a very good footballer. I think Trippier is not a very good footballer. (I have communicated this countless times).

Of the two players, I believe Tripps has put in the worst level of performances, some truly calamitous and truly embarrassing rapings have been witnessed by millions of the viewing public. Whilst Sissoko's technical ability is crystal clear for even a dick like you to spot, his performances last year were at worse meh, they have been no calamities and no rapings. He has displayed a terrible control or a terrible skied shot that's flown into row 'Z' but only idiots judge these "moments" in a game and equate them to equal the level of performance shown over 90mins, those that do are scapegoating him, plain and simple.
 
BangkokSpud said:
That's a perfectly reasonable position Blakey ... however when people temper their praise with "still the worst passer in the team" or "he still gives the ball away to often" when in fact this season he's got the highest pass completion rate of any regular Spurs player ...

Edit - apologies I did indeed mix my Moussa's ... his pass completion is 85.7% ... that's not the best but is still about 8% better than last year ...

People are not picking up on his weaker facets, which like all payers he does have, that's just remembering how ineffective he was on the wing 12 months ago ... not looking at his performance this season when judging him as a current player ....
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No, I think people very much - generally speaking - are doing just that. They are saying it's good that his general level of competence and performance has reached a better level, but the same issues are still prevalent - poor technique etc.

What we are still getting though is people still over hyping everything he does - like calling fairly standard performances "brilliant" and highlighting nothing but his one key pass or how many tackles he makes, and ignoring the fact that much of what he's doing should be in the scope of any hum drum player at this level. We could put Skipp out there and he'd run through brick walls and tackle everything that fucking moved too.

And those same people were quick to dismiss any stats which supported how poorly he was performing for much of the last two years as "stats don't tell the whole story" etc. But as soon as Sissoko's stats say something positive they can't wait to insert them in their "why he is in fact brilliant - Sissoko Powerpoint Demo".

I still don't think Sissoko is doing anything stupendous. But then I think the same about Dier and Davies, they've just been consistently competent for a lot longer than Sissoko has.
 
The Fish said:
Yes, i used to go to most games too in those days and on away trips some people used to list from 1-11 our worst players then compare notes 'yeah he was shit he was useless etc'. I would neck 10 cans of Youngers Tartan and sing Tottenham songs in their faces. I was even worse after 11am.
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Please don’t say that you wore a Holsten top too!
 
Guido said:
Oh, look wankspace tags Guido in a post, as his obsession continues unabated.

When Tripps has a good game I say that he has a good game (it's all there in black and white). When he has a shit game I comment that he's had a shit game too. The fact he has had more shit games than good games would mean I post more about how shit he is than how good he is. It's not fucking hard to work that one out, but then it is you we are talking about, the forum dunce, although I do not see the need to make allowance for this.

And yet again another poster can't get their head around the fact that I think Sissoko is a poor player with limited ability but confuses the fact that because I defend they way people slag him off (the level of abuse has NEVER warranted or matched his performance(s) played) is beyond bizarre in the fucking extreme.

I'll spell it out for you: I think Sissoko is not a very good footballer. I think Trippier is not a very good footballer. (I have communicated this countless times).

Of the two players, I believe Tripps has put in the worst level of performances, some truly calamitous and truly embarrassing rapings have been witnessed by millions of the viewing public. Whilst Sissoko's technical ability is crystal clear for even a dick like you to spot, his performances last year were at worse meh, they have been no calamities and no rapings. He has displayed a terrible control or a terrible skied shot that's flown into row 'Z' but only idiots judge these "moments" in a game and equate them to equal the level of performance shown over 90mins, those that do are scapegoating him, plain and simple.
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No Guido, what you do is what you have accused others of in here in the last few days. You over emphasise the slightest little error Trippier makes and worse, you also blame him for stuff that isn't him. I've challenged you on them before, like Messi's pass for their first goal, like the second Wolves goal, like saying he's cost us loads of games, or saying he's continually targeted, when Ive posted up a 38 game heat map from last season showing our left received more key passes than our right. You accuse others of not factoring in Sissoko's new remit, but you continually refuse to factor in Trippier's remit - that he is asked to perform by Poch - in your criticism. He is told to play very advanced, to contribute offensively, and he does this more productively than any RB in the PL so far (possibly in Europe right now?). In that tactical application, even the fastest FB's will be susceptible to counter. That happened with Walker and Rose.

One of the reasons I take it up with you is because you are a good poster who's contributions I always look out for, and I'd rather have a discussion with someone who's views I generally respect than some numpty who'd opinions are fucking meaningless to me.

But you are at the very least guilty of bias (scapegoating you have called it with Sissoko) against Trippier. Who we all accept isn't perfect and I've called out his actual mistakes.


To say Trippier's put in consistently worse level of performances than Sissoko is fucking bonkers. Ridiculous.
 
bus-conductor said:
No, I think people very much - generally speaking - are doing just that. They are saying it's good that his general level of competence and performance has reached a better level, but the same issues are still prevalent - poor technique etc.

What we are still getting though is people still over hyping everything he does - like calling fairly standard performances "brilliant" and highlighting nothing but his one key pass or how many tackles he makes, and ignoring the fact that much of what he's doing should be in the scope of any hum drum player at this level. We could put Skipp out there and he'd run through brick walls and tackle everything that fucking moved too.

And those same people were quick to dismiss any stats which supported how poorly he was performing for much of the last two years as "stats don't tell the whole story" etc. But as soon as Sissoko's stats say something positive they can't wait to insert them in their "why he is in fact brilliant - Sissoko Powerpoint Demo".

I still don't think Sissoko is doing anything stupendous. But then I think the same about Dier and Davies, they've just been consistently competent for a lot longer than Sissoko has.
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This
 
Guido said:
Oh, look wankspace tags Guido in a post, as his obsession continues unabated.

When Tripps has a good game I say that he has a good game (it's all there in black and white). When he has a shit game I comment that he's had a shit game too. The fact he has had more shit games than good games would mean I post more about how shit he is than how good he is. It's not fucking hard to work that one out, but then it is you we are talking about, the forum dunce, although I do not see the need to make allowance for this.

And yet again another poster can't get their head around the fact that I think Sissoko is a poor player with limited ability but confuses the fact that because I defend they way people slag him off (the level of abuse has NEVER warranted or matched his performance(s) played) is beyond bizarre in the fucking extreme.

I'll spell it out for you: I think Sissoko is not a very good footballer. I think Trippier is not a very good footballer. (I have communicated this countless times).

Of the two players, I believe Tripps has put in the worst level of performances, some truly calamitous and truly embarrassing rapings have been witnessed by millions of the viewing public. Whilst Sissoko's technical ability is crystal clear for even a dick like you to spot, his performances last year were at worse meh, they have been no calamities and no rapings. He has displayed a terrible control or a terrible skied shot that's flown into row 'Z' but only idiots judge these "moments" in a game and equate them to equal the level of performance shown over 90mins, those that do are scapegoating him, plain and simple.
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I didnt used to think this but at least this season Sissoko has definitely been more valuable than Trippier

Also, there might be some random stat out there with acronyms like xG and HP and EXP that shows something Trip does makes him a better defender, but in real football terms Aurier is a better defender than Trippier , thats a fact.
 
bus-conductor said:
No Guido, what you do is what you have accused others of in here in the last few days. You over emphasise the slightest little error Trippier makes and worse, you also blame him for stuff that isn't him. I've challenged you on them before, like Messi's pass for their first goal, like the second Wolves goal, like saying he's cost us loads of games, or saying he's continually targeted, when Ive posted up a 38 game heat map from last season showing our left received more key passes than our right. You accuse others of not factoring in Sissoko's new remit, but you continually refuse to factor in Trippier's remit - that he is asked to perform by Poch - in your criticism. He is told to play very advanced, to contribute offensively, and he does this more productively than any RB in the PL so far (possibly in Europe right now?). In that tactical application, even the fastest FB's will be susceptible to counter. That happened with Walker and Rose.

One of the reasons I take it up with you is because you are a good poster who's contributions I always look out for, and I'd rather have a discussion with someone who's views I generally respect than some numpty who'd opinions are fucking meaningless to me.

But you are at the very least guilty of bias (scapegoating you have called it with Sissoko) against Trippier. Who we all accept isn't perfect and I've called out his actual mistakes.


To say Trippier's put in consistently worse level of performances than Sissoko is fucking bonkers. Ridiculous.
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This is so boring as I've said before so many times, I praise Tripps when he plays well, it's there in black and white. I also leave it at that, I don't snide or make constant reference to him also. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, that's what you don't/can't do.

If Trips had a good game I don't bang on about the fact that Aurier or Walker would have been better than him (I think they are) but at least I can acknowledge a good performance even if I think the player is shit. It's exactly what I am doing with Sissoko, I don't rate the player, but annoyingly all I have done is spent 90% of my time having to defend him from those that are way over the top with their criticism (the criticism not matching the performance). I think Sissoko is shit, but I am really, really ENJOYING his performances right now, if I sate this it doesn't mean that I think he's a brilliant player, I don't, but it does prove that I can openly discuss, praise and enjoy his performances. I'm not putting the player down cunting him off whilst he's just put in a great performance. I do the exact same with Tripps, praise him when he's played well, pull him up when he hasn't. If he's been calamitous them I'm going in swinging. I've never had to go in swinging with Sissoko, I've done it many times with Tripps. So it absolutely isn't "bonkers or ridiculous". Trust me if Sissoko had put in a calamitous performance then I would have said my piece, I probably would have enjoyed it too as I don't rate the player, but I can honestly say he hasn't put in a calamitous performance (Tripps has on many an occasion). Putting a shot into row Z isn't a calamitous performance, it's an action that's is shit.

So Messi's pass: This will always happen because teams that play us when Trips plays target the ball behind him, this is what I pick up on because this happens all the time when he plays. If Tripps defends the space behind him then it's not a problem and there is nothing to say (for balance every team that plays a high-line will have the oppo target space behind but it's how and who defends that space that is being discussed. Sanchez, for instance, is the player that excels at defending this space, mainly because of his pace but he defends that space in a high-line to a high % of success. As for the small % when he hasn't it might have cost us a goal BUT these are a small % and it's the risk we have accepted as a team, Jan and Toby read the game well and defend the space well because of this but will lose a foot race if the ball played is spot on). With Tripps it's the opposite, he defends this space poorly, it's why it's a target for the oppo, everyone of is nightmare games have seen him getting beasted in this space, it's a MASSIVE problem and MASSIVE weakness. It's not even just his pace and athleticism, although a factor, he's poor in the air, he's poor 1vs1 and a further dynamic is his not great when we have the ball, he is easily pressed and can't play out from the back well.

So whether it's Messi or Donald duck making that pass into that space behind him, that ball behind Tripps happens and happens regularly and the oppo profit from it frequently or as a knock-on effect by creating issues in that space that open up gaps elsewhere. In my OPINION, Lloris knew that pass was coming (as it ALWAYS DOES), I evidence why he was expecting it because he committed to coming out to it immediately, as the ball was hit, there was no hesitation, that to me demonstrates his compensating (overcompensating) for that ball behind. Lloris's error but induced by the nervousness that is brought on by having Tripps on the pitch, I'm implying that Lloris doesn't trust Tripps, that's my OPINION but there is my reasoning for it. Dissagree with that all you like.
 
Guido said:
Oh, look wankspace tags Guido in a post, as his obsession continues unabated.

When Tripps has a good game I say that he has a good game (it's all there in black and white). When he has a shit game I comment that he's had a shit game too. The fact he has had more shit games than good games would mean I post more about how shit he is than how good he is. It's not fucking hard to work that one out, but then it is you we are talking about, the forum dunce, although I do not see the need to make allowance for this.

And yet again another poster can't get their head around the fact that I think Sissoko is a poor player with limited ability but confuses the fact that because I defend they way people slag him off (the level of abuse has NEVER warranted or matched his performance(s) played) is beyond bizarre in the fucking extreme.

I'll spell it out for you: I think Sissoko is not a very good footballer. I think Trippier is not a very good footballer. (I have communicated this countless times).

Of the two players, I believe Tripps has put in the worst level of performances, some truly calamitous and truly embarrassing rapings have been witnessed by millions of the viewing public. Whilst Sissoko's technical ability is crystal clear for even a dick like you to spot, his performances last year were at worse meh, they have been no calamities and no rapings. He has displayed a terrible control or a terrible skied shot that's flown into row 'Z' but only idiots judge these "moments" in a game and equate them to equal the level of performance shown over 90mins, those that do are scapegoating him, plain and simple.
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So nothing but some personal insults and pointless waffle - great debate indeed.
 
ArcspacE said:
So nothing but some personal insults and pointless waffle - great debate indeed.
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The days expecting a debate off you are long since gone. I don't value your opinion, I don't want to know what your opinion is, I don't give a fuck about your opinion. I've said as much before. If you stop responding to my posts or stop tagging me in yours then I will not engage with you.
 
Guido said:
This is so boring as I've said before so many times, I praise Tripps when he plays well, it's there in black and white. I also leave it at that, I don't snide or make constant reference to him also. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE, that's what you don't/can't do.

If Trips had a good game I don't bang on about the fact that Aurier or Walker would have been better than him (I think they are) but at least I can acknowledge a good performance even if I think the player is shit. It's exactly what I am doing with Sissoko, I don't rate the player, but annoyingly all I have done is spent 90% of my time having to defend him from those that are way over the top with their criticism (the criticism not matching the performance). I think Sissoko is shit, but I am really, really ENJOYING his performances right now, if I sate this it doesn't mean that I think he's a brilliant player, I don't, but it does prove that I can openly discuss, praise and enjoy his performances. I'm not putting the player down cunting him off whilst he's just put in a great performance. I do the exact same with Tripps, praise him when he's played well, pull him up when he hasn't. If he's been calamitous them I'm going in swinging. I've never had to go in swinging with Sissoko, I've done it many times with Tripps. So it absolutely isn't "bonkers or ridiculous". Trust me if Sissoko had put in a calamitous performance then I would have said my piece, I probably would have enjoyed it too as I don't rate the player, but I can honestly say he hasn't put in a calamitous performance (Tripps has on many an occasion). Putting a shot into row Z isn't a calamitous performance, it's an action that's is shit.

So Messi's pass: This will always happen because teams that play us when Trips plays target the ball behind him, this is what I pick up on because this happens all the time when he plays. If Tripps defends the space behind him then it's not a problem and there is nothing to say (for balance every team that plays a high-line will have the oppo target space behind but it's how and who defends that space that is being discussed. Sanchez, for instance, is the player that excels at defending this space, mainly because of his pace but he defends that space in a high-line to a high % of success. As for the small % when he hasn't it might have cost us a goal BUT these are a small % and it's the risk we have accepted as a team, Jan and Toby read the game well and defend the space well because of this but will lose a foot race if the ball played is spot on). With Tripps it's the opposite, he defends this space poorly, it's why it's a target for the oppo, everyone of is nightmare games have seen him getting beasted in this space, it's a MASSIVE problem and MASSIVE weakness. It's not even just his pace and athleticism, although a factor, he's poor in the air, he's poor 1vs1 and a further dynamic is his not great when we have the ball, he is easily pressed and can't play out from the back well.

So whether it's Messi or Donald duck making that pass into that space behind him, that ball behind Tripps happens and happens regularly and the oppo profit from it frequently or as a knock-on effect by creating issues in that space that open up gaps elsewhere. In my OPINION, Lloris knew that pass was coming (as it ALWAYS DOES), I evidence why he was expecting it because he committed to coming out to it immediately, as the ball was hit, there was no hesitation, that to me demonstrates his compensating (overcompensating) for that ball behind. Lloris's error but induced by the nervousness that is brought on by having Tripps on the pitch, I'm implying that Lloris doesn't trust Tripps, that's my OPINION but there is my reasoning for it. Dissagree with that all you like.
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The Messi thing isn’t the only thing you’ve incorrectly (IMO) hung at his door.

I do not disagree with every single issue you have with, but I disagree with some and think you over emphasise others disproportionately.

Whatever perceived weaknesses Trippier has, to ignore that the trade off of him being one of the best and most productive attacking fb’s out there right now seems harsh. And I don’t mean just assists, but the pre-assists, build up play etc. I don’t believe he’s perfect but I don’t believe we’ll find perfect.

Walker got done badly last night a few times Against Lyon (as he did for the goal in the first leg) and almost everything came down his side, despite them having an inexperienced kid on the left.

Personally I trust Lloris a lot less than Trippier.

Even if Sissoko or any player made a mistake that cost us a goal I wouldn’t necessarily hold that against them, it’s invariably defenders who’s errors are the final error in a string of fuck ups, that get the blame anyway, I’m more concerned with the overall contribution, what they do most of the time and effect on the team dynamic.

Sissoko doesn’t have to make an overt fuck up to “cost us” something, having a player in our midfield that takes three touches to control the ball, treats the ball like a hot potato, continually passes behind or at people in a way that means they can’t take a ball in stride, passes the ball by numbers with no incision or wit, doesn’t read the game well at all - is costing us, it’s just much harder to quantify than when a defender gets done and we concede a goal.

We are a team that doesn’t lose often, and it’s usually only to better/equal sides and is usually a collection of issues, rarely one moment by one individual.
 
Guido said:
The days expecting a debate off you are long since gone. I don't value your opinion, I don't want to know what your opinion is, I don't give a fuck about your opinion. I've said as much before. If you stop responding to my posts or stop tagging me in yours then I will not engage with you.
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This is a public forum - who the fuck do you think you are to moderate who I respond to? If you post on a public forum - be prepared to be engaged by anyone who so wishes.
 
The Fish said:
Urrghhh 'this' how repulsive is that modern response. Sheep cooper.
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modern?

that was a simplified response on usenet in the 90s

I was packing up to go, I'm not going to waste my time typing a long winded response to please you.

who the fuck are you anyway?

Fish .....mmm - fish, they are more common than sheep and intellectually challenged.......
 
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