Mauricio Pochettino

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MDG said:
Please do fuck off.
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ginola92 said:
Yeah i'm not comparing him to Poch, what Poch has done here is phenomenal and we don't know how great he could be with unlimited resources.
But trying to downplay Pep's achievements because he's been at the "best" clubs is just quite stupid in my opinion, City have had unlimited cash since what 09 or something, this is by a long way the most dominant they've been in that period. You can rank him against all the other top managers who have worked at the top clubs in their leagues, and his record will come out better than most.
Also people seem to think Barca were like a Real Madrid when he took over, they had a good run under Rijkaard from like 04-06, but they were nowhere near the dominant force they were when Guardiola took over and completely transformed the club, the argument the hood always makes against Poch seems to be the argument many on here make against Guardiola when it comes to Barca. Yeah Busquets, Iniesta, Pedro etc were world class players, but they weren't that before he took over, it's the same with Poch, in 15/16 we had the 2 best fullbacks in the league and probably top 5 in world football, but Walker and Rose were nowhere near that before Poch. Guardiola improves every team he takes over, not just by signing the best players but from his coaching, look at people like Sterling, even players like de bryune were not what they are right now.
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i agree with most of this. Just watching the way the switch through formations as the ball moves forward is, in itself, very very impressive - and he's coached that into some quite thick players to be fair.
 
adasai said:
Same. Joining the best and biggest teams in a country and getting them to win is no achievement at all. Barcelona, Bayern, Mancity all teams where he has the best players . Many manager would win with these teams. Not that impressed with Pep at all.

Same way Messi has to go test himself elsewhere rather than sitting at Barcelona throughout his career to be considered one of the best of all time. So far hes done nothing great with his other team Argentina (even with a team full of talented players)
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Eh?

So Paul Scholes can't be an all time great? Paulo Maldini? Ledley King? Xavi?
 
adasai said:
Same. Joining the best and biggest teams in a country and getting them to win is no achievement at all. Barcelona, Bayern, Mancity all teams where he has the best players . Many manager would win with these teams. Not that impressed with Pep at all.

Same way Messi has to go test himself elsewhere rather than sitting at Barcelona throughout his career to be considered one of the best of all time. So far hes done nothing great with his other team Argentina (even with a team full of talented players)
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I agree that Pep hasn't achieved as much as some other managers because his success has been with massive resources. Mourinho, for example, is a great manager because of his achievements with Porto and Inter, no matter how dodgy his sides have been recently.

Your comment about Messi is ridiculous. Sure, he plays in a great team and has done all his career. But the guy's ability is there for all to see. Messi is an all time great, irrespective of his national team form. I would agree that Zidane was greater, by virtue of his impact at all clubs and national team setups. But I can't agree that Messi isn't great - that's just fucken mental.
 
SausageVince said:
I agree that Pep hasn't achieved as much as some other managers because his success has been with massive resources. Mourinho, for example, is a great manager because of his achievements with Porto and Inter, no matter how dodgy his side's have been recently.

Your comment about Messi is ridiculous. Sure, he plays in a great team and has done all his career. But the guy's ability is there for all to see. Messi is an all time great, irrespective of his national team form. I would agree that Zidane was greater, by virtue of his impact at all clubs and national team setups. But I can't agree that Messi isn't great - that's just fucken mental.
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Of course Messi is great, but if he did something great playing for Tottenham or even win a world cup then hes proven himself to be one of the best ever. Of course he has been best in the world at many points in his career (probably now), but not the best ever. Agreed about Zidane.
 
People misunderstand the best player ever thing by using trophies. Trophies have fuck all to do with ability.

It's about attributes. What you can do with a football.

Steve Bruce won loads of trophies for example.
 
adasai said:
Xavi wasnt just a flat track bully in la liga though. He won the world cup and euros twice. He would definitely be in a conversation as the best ever.
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Not just la liga though is it, Messi has ripped apart all the best teams throughout europe, the Champions League is a higher level than the world cup, so the fact he hasn't won that really doesn't mean anything, and wasn't he player of the tournament in 2014 anyway
 
Spursdem said:
Neither is Lionel Messi. He's elevated Barca to what they are now. It's because of him.

Go research how Barca were doing before Messi arrived on the scene.
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It says just before he became their main attacker Barcelona won the CL with Ronaldinho , Eto who scored 6 and 7 goals each, Messi scored 1 that season.
 
ginola92 said:
Not just la liga though is it, Messi has ripped apart all the best teams throughout europe, the Champions League is a higher level than the world cup, so the fact he hasn't won that really doesn't mean anything, and wasn't he player of the tournament in 2014 anyway
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He was, but there’s no way he deserved player of the tournament that year.

I agree with your main point though.
 
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